Why is Miami so underrated for its urbanity?

[Larry King]

Yes it is very underrated and you can tell because everyone in this thread bashes it. I think it's underrated because many of the high rises were built relatively recently and the city is bilingual so the anglo world is less familiar. There's a weird negativity around Miami in America that you don't hear in regards to California, Texas etc. Miami is much more popular with Europeans and South Americans though.

[destroycreate]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Yes it is very underrated and you can tell because everyone in this thread bashes it. I think it's underrated because many of the high rises were built relatively recently and the city is bilingual so the anglo world is less familiar. There's a weird negativity around Miami in America that you don't hear in regards to California, Texas etc. Miami is much more popular with Europeans and South Americans though.

Yeah, I have to say, I am a bit shocked by the negative responses in this thread.

By no means was I ever saying Miami is up there with the NYCs, Phillys, or even LA, but considering the negativity I DO hear on this forum and even how it's portrayed in the media, I was expecting Miami to be far more sprawly, low-rise, and not particularly dynamic in vibe. Maybe like a Houston. I get it doesn't have a traditional urban form but neither does LA where I live, and I find it exciting actually that so much of the development I see has happened in the last 15 years. To me, it's impressive.

Driving around the metro, there are high rises in all directions, and I don't know, I've seen plenty of cool pockets of walkability that many cities of its size don't offer. Wynwood, the design district, Brickell (up and coming, I know), and all of Miami Beach.

It's not like Miami Beach is just a few blocks, and people seem to write it off because of that. It's a pretty substantial area that offers a really solid urban experience.

Walkscore of Miami

[Larry King]

Yes, south beach is one of the great urban neighborhoods in the US and it’s not that small, probably the best in the south.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Driving around the metro, there are high rises in all directions, and I don't know, I've seen plenty of cool pockets of walkability that many cities of its size don't offer. Wynwood, the design district, Brickell (up and coming, I know), and all of Miami Beach.

I thought it's pretty well known that S. Florida has tons of residential highrises, and definitely third most in the U.S.

Walkscore has nothing to do with relative urbanity, and little to do with functional walkability. It simply shows how much stuff is in relative proximity to a location. A place could have a high walkscore and be essentially unwalkable, as is much of S. Florida. Places in the Sunbelt with relatively high density, like Orange County, CA, or Miami-Dade, FL, will have high walkscores, because stuff is geographically close.

Originally Posted by destroycreate

It's not like Miami Beach is just a few blocks, and people seem to write it off because of that. It's a pretty substantial area that offers a really solid urban experience.

Again, Walkscore.

Miami Beach isn't particularly walkable or urban, except for a few blocks in South Beach. Most of Miami Beach consists of giant resort-like hotels with zero neighborhood walkability. The historic portion (South Beach) is much better, but is still 1940's-era three floor hotels with auto accommodation. We aren't exactly talking a walker's paradise.

South Beach is appealing because of its unique art deco tropical look, the beach, and status as a teeming global crossroads, than its urbanity/walkability. Yonkers has better urbanity/walkability. A random Western European suburb has better urbanity/walkability.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Well, if Miami/ South Florida doesn’t have the best urban layout in the Sunbelt, which city/ metro does?

I don't think there is a "best"... and why should there have to be? And how is "best urbanity" defined anyway?

There are many cities in the Sunbelt which are much older than Miami, and thus had dense commercial/industrial (now residential) mix neighborhoods outside of their central "downtown" cores. Miami doesn't have this, and it never did... because it was never much of a place for industry or trade back in the day... because it didn't exist back in the day.

Miami never had it, so it has to work backwards, even immediately adjacent to downtown.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Outside of a few blocks of South Beach, where does South Florida have quality urbanity?

Miami Beach isn't particularly walkable or urban, except for a few blocks in South Beach. Most of Miami Beach consists of giant resort-like hotels with zero neighborhood walkability. The historic portion (South Beach) is much better, but is still 1940's-era three floor hotels with auto accommodation. We aren't exactly talking a walker's paradise.

I agree with what you're saying about Miami Beach's urbanity/lack thereof... but reducing South Beach to "a few blocks" is misleading. South Beach is a pretty large area, and densely developed.

Originally Posted by Larry King

There's a weird negativity around Miami in America that you don't hear in regards to California, Texas etc. Miami is much more popular with Europeans and South Americans though.

It's because Miami is not really "American" in much of the country's eyes. You know, it's just a place composed of a lot of brown and black people with lots of drugs and crime. Why would anyone ever want to go down and wade in that awful cesspool?

And the media has loved to play that bullshit up since the 1980s. There's always gotta be a bad guy for good TV.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Yeah, I have to say, I am a bit shocked by the negative responses in this thread.

By no means was I ever saying Miami is up there with the NYCs, Phillys, or even LA, but considering the negativity I DO hear on this forum and even how it's portrayed in the media, I was expecting Miami to be far more sprawly, low-rise, and not particularly dynamic in vibe. Maybe like a Houston. I get it doesn't have a traditional urban form but neither does LA where I live, and I find it exciting actually that so much of the development I see has happened in the last 15 years. To me, it's impressive.

Driving around the metro, there are high rises in all directions, and I don't know, I've seen plenty of cool pockets of walkability that many cities of its size don't offer. Wynwood, the design district, Brickell (up and coming, I know), and all of Miami Beach.

It's not like Miami Beach is just a few blocks, and people seem to write it off because of that. It's a pretty substantial area that offers a really solid urban experience.

Walkscore of Miami

The negativity is from your negativity and misleading in your original post..
And what you said has been known. There are alot of highrides but on street level it doesn't look walkable.
I'd rather walk around Hermosa Beach than a place with boring condo blocks with no retail.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I was expecting Miami to be far more sprawly, low-rise, and not particularly dynamic in vibe. Maybe like a Houston.

Expecting Miami to be "not particularly dynamic in vibe", huh?

Well, that's one I haven't heard on here... or anywhere... ever.

Miami... yeah, not too dynamic... kinda like a Houston or somewhere.

Right, that's the general consensus. Not much going on down there. I mean, who goes to Miami???

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Yeah, I have to say, I am a bit shocked by the negative responses in this thread.

By no means was I ever saying Miami is up there with the NYCs, Phillys, or even LA, but considering the negativity I DO hear on this forum and even how it's portrayed in the media, I was expecting Miami to be far more sprawly, low-rise, and not particularly dynamic in vibe. Maybe like a Houston. I get it doesn't have a traditional urban form but neither does LA where I live, and I find it exciting actually that so much of the development I see has happened in the last 15 years. To me, it's impressive.

Driving around the metro, there are high rises in all directions, and I don't know, I've seen plenty of cool pockets of walkability that many cities of its size don't offer. Wynwood, the design district, Brickell (up and coming, I know), and all of Miami Beach.

It's not like Miami Beach is just a few blocks, and people seem to write it off because of that. It's a pretty substantial area that offers a really solid urban experience.

As a former resident of South Florida, I would say the disconnect happens because Miami has a Potemkin urbanism that’s not really meant for the average person who lives and works there.

It’s not that Miami Beach has a small population, but that 95% of people who live in metro Miami have nothing to do with the place. It’s not a major employer or provider of services beyond the beach for the average person.

A good exercise to illustrate this is to find the 20 largest Miami metro employers or Fortune 500 HQs on the map. They’re in office parks on the outskirts surrounded by asphalt plains.

Or that bizarre Miami sidewalk design where the residential block will be bounded by a sidewalk but no curb cuts to cross the road. Hooray you can walk your dog, but you want to go someplace? Hahaha, those driveways have cars for a reason. There’s no place to go.

I have a fonder urban experience of Tampa-St.Petersburg. Ugly as sin, but the downtowns serve the actual residents of the metro as best as a sprawly Florida city can. Take a look at the bus networks of Miami vs St. Pete to get an idea of how urbanism is actually working for residents and not just tourists.

https://www.psta.net/media/4305/psta-map-fall-2019.pdf
https://www8.miamidade.gov/transit/l...m-maps-web.pdf

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Yes it is very underrated and you can tell because everyone in this thread bashes it. I think it's underrated because many of the high rises were built relatively recently and the city is bilingual so the anglo world is less familiar. There's a weird negativity around Miami in America that you don't hear in regards to California, Texas etc. Miami is much more popular with Europeans and South Americans though.

Yeah, what mainly hurts Miami is its age. Had it been developed a bit earlier ( around the time of LA or even Chicago, Detroit, and the rest of the Midwest) , it would have offered more of an urban experience. Even in the 20s and 30s downtown and South Beach were substantial.

And the culture of it, the tropical Latin/ Caribbean vibe, the Art Deco/ modern architecture along with the Mediterranean style, makes it unique in this country, a rightful cousin of LA in that sense. Still sucks that it's not urban in the old school sense but what is there is better than what much other modern metros in the South offer. Atlanta or Austin may one day get there, but right now, Miami has it and seems to be improving to a certain extent.

[M II A II R II K]

Beaches can’t be anything else but walkable.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, what mainly hurts Miami is its age. Had it been developed a bit earlier ( around the time of LA or even Chicago, Detroit, and the rest of the Midwest) , it would have offered more of an urban experience. Even in the 20s and 30s downtown and South Beach were substantial.

And the culture of it, the tropical Latin/ Caribbean vibe, the Art Deco/ modern architecture along with the Mediterranean style, makes it unique in this country, a rightful cousin of LA in that sense. Still sucks that it's not urban in the old school sense but what is there is better than what much other modern metros in the South offer. Atlanta or Austin may one day get there, but right now, Miami has it and seems to be improving to a certain extent.

I'd say that south beach is truly urban in the old school sense. And also Little Havana to a lesser extent. Brickell/Downtown/Edgewater/Wynwood corridor is a work in progress but will get there before any other southern city.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I'd say that south beach is truly urban in the old school sense. And also Little Havana to a lesser extent. Brickell/Downtown/Edgewater/Wynwood corridor is a work in progress but will get there before any other southern city.

Little Havana is hardly "urban" in any way.

The area was thoroughly designed for the automobile.

In the same general area, the stretch of Coral Way from Downtown to Coral Gables is far more traditionally urban in form than Calle Ocho/Little Havana. And Coral Way is not very urban.


The most traditionally urban areas of Miami are: Downtown, South Beach, downtown Coral Gables, Coconut Grove, and downtown South Miami (which has served as UM's "college town").

And that is it.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by pj3000

It's because Miami is not really "American" in much of the country's eyes. You know, it's just a place composed of a lot of brown and black people with lots of drugs and crime. Why would anyone ever want to go down and wade in that awful cesspool?

And the media has loved to play that bullshit up since the 1980s. There's always gotta be a bad guy for good TV.

Yep the scarface/miami vice thing really stuck with some Americans. And your standard white bread American doesn't really fit in. But people with roots in the carribbean, spanish speakers, Jews and New Yorkers all seem to like it.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Little Havana is hardly "urban" in any way.

The area was thoroughly designed for the automobile.

I don't agree, a lot of the apartment buildings are still there, it's pretty in tact in the eastern half.

Blocks like this are fairly urban in their own way:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7707...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7697...7i16384!8i8192

[LA21st]

I wouldn't say one pre war building means its urban. That's a weird take.
I'm sure Atlanta has more pre war blocks than Miami does.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I don't agree, a lot of the apartment buildings are still there, it's pretty in tact in the eastern half.

Blocks like this are fairly urban in their own way:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7707...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7697...7i16384!8i8192

Yeah, I agree with you here. Eastern Little Havana is more dense, and has those smaller 1920s-50s apartment buildings. That area is kind of an extension of downtown in a way. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of business district urbanity, of which Little Havana doesn't have much, unfortunately.

I really like that area though because it has that old school Art Deco and Mediterranean and Caribbean vernacular. I live just south of there in the Roads.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I wouldn't say one pre war building means its urban. That's a weird take.
I'm sure Atlanta has more pre war blocks than Miami does.

It has a hell of a lot more than one pre-war building.

Large portions of Miami are pre-war.

That doesn't mean it's necessarily urban, but it's not like he was cherry-picking to find the one pre-war building or anything.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by pj3000

It has a hell of a lot more than one pre war building.

Large portions of Miami are pre war.

It looks like one building in his ink to me. Anything else looks like it could've been built in the 1950s

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by LA21st

It looks like one building in his ink to me.

First, I didn't post a link.

Second, any link that was posted has more than one building in it, obviously. A pre-war structure does not make a neighborhood urban, but that's not what Larry King was claiming anyway.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by pj3000

First, I didn't post a link.

Second, any link that was posted has more than one building in it, obviously. A pre-war structure does not make a neighborhood urban, but that's not what Larry King was claiming anyway.

That's what it sounded like. I don't know what else would be considered fairly urban in those links?