Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[CoryB]

The suggestion of closing Pipeline at the Perimeter would be the same as suggesting St Anne's be closed on the south Perimeter. Both are a similar distance from an existing interchange. Simply put, Pipeline needs to be a diamond.

HWY 6 at the Perimeter actually needs a full interchange. HWY 6 is a major trucking route to the north and stands to only get busier. The volume the type of traffic there makes a full interchange here make more sense than it does for St Mary's and the Perimeter where most of the turning traffic is passenger vehicles that could easily negotiate tighter turns of a diamond.

Saying Gunn Rd should be closed is close to the right answer but misses the big picture. Sure Gunn Rd is a temporary access point to the Perimeter but it will eventually be replaced by CPT/Oak Bank Corridor/Perimeter and need a full interchange. It would actually be to the point Gunn Rd needs a full interchange and Dugald should be a diamond as most of the traffic will move north once the roadwork is all done. The added bonus of moving that traffic north is a bounce of the most dangerous train crossing in the province could be closed to vehicle traffic.

Overall though, making the north Perimeter the preferred truck route around Winnipeg makes a lot of sense. Too bad expediting upgrades on the south Perimeter is more likely to win votes at election time.

[bomberjet]

Another dust up at 101 and Pipeline this afternoon. 1 person to hospital as a precaution.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Another dust up at 101 and Pipeline this afternoon. 1 person to hospital as a precaution.

Those lights are a death trap...time to make it a right in, right out corner and force everyone else to drive the extra 4 km to 7/101 or 8/101.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Those lights are a death trap...time to make it a right in, right out corner and force everyone else to drive the extra 4 km to 7/101 or 8/101.

Excellent suggestion. Let's test this "right in, right out" with the St Anne's/Perimeter intersection being the pilot for say 24 months.

[YWG-RO]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Excellent suggestion. Let's test this "right in, right out" with the St Anne's/Perimeter intersection being the pilot for say 24 months.

Isn't the difference that Pipeline has two grade separated interchanges within 3 km either east or west and probably 1/10 the traffic? There are service roads along 101 and local residents have access to PTH 8. Yes, it's a nice short cut, but there are alternatives.

Right in / out for Pipeline seems like a very safe proposition for MIT. I remember in the mid 1980s when they placed the Jersey barriers on 101 between 9 and 59. There was local outrage when Raleigh became right in / out. We got used to it and used 204 or 59 to cross 101.

Too bad MIT didn't have the foresight to close all the other minor at grade intersections rather than placing traffic signals to appease as opposed to emphasizing safety.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

Isn't the difference that Pipeline has two grade separated interchanges within 3 km either east or west and probably 1/10 the traffic? There are service roads along 101 and local residents have access to PTH 8. Yes, it's a nice short cut, but there are alternatives.

Right in / out for Pipeline seems like a very safe proposition for MIT. I remember in the mid 1980s when they placed the Jersey barriers on 101 between 9 and 59. There was local outrage when Raleigh became right in / out. We got used to it and used 204 or 59 to cross 101.

Too bad MIT didn't have the foresight to close all the other minor at grade intersections rather than placing traffic signals to appease as opposed to emphasizing safety.

Anything that doesn't require signals gets closed. Anything that requires signals gets a diamond. Anything that needs two direction free flow gets a full interchange. Jersey barriers with a proper inner shoulder throughout. No one has articulated a clear vision for the perimeter. If we just made it all free flow we wouldn't even have to talk about extra lanes (perplexingly this seems to be the end all solution to traffic woes) wut

[YWG-RO]

Here's a plan:
2017-27:
Close everything else until traffic justifies. Pass a statute outlawing traffic signals on 100/101!
2017-19 - wide diamond at 6/101 with room to convert to cloverleaf in future - $40 M
2017-20 - parclo at 15/101/CNR - $150 M
2018-20 - small diamond at Pipeline - $30 M
2020-23 - flyover at 101/190 and extend 190 to PTH 1 past Headingley - $250 M
2019-21 - diamond at 100/St Mary's - $40 M
2020-22 - diamond at 100/St Anne's - $40 M
2021-23 - wide diamond at 100/3 able to convert to cloverleaf in future - $50 M
2022-24 - diamond at 100/330 - $40 M
2023-26 - complex interchange / flyovers including spur for 75 bypass at 100/Kennaston - $250 M
2024-26 - diamond or parclo at 101/Gunn depending to extension of CPT - $50 M
2025-27 - complete St Norbert bypass to join 75 - $200 M

So, it's doable, for under $1.2 B. Timelines might be optimistic, but the key is to move along from one project to another.

Throw in a diamond at 59N/202 for another $40 M, that should have been included in the 101/59N project, instead of the Christmas trees (signals).

Oh, to dream!

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

Here's a plan:
2017-27:
Close everything else until traffic justifies. Pass a statute outlawing traffic signals on 100/101!
2017-19 - wide diamond at 6/101 with room to convert to cloverleaf in future - $40 M
2017-20 - parclo at 15/101/CNR - $150 M
2018-20 - small diamond at Pipeline - $30 M
2020-23 - flyover at 101/190 and extend 190 to PTH 1 past Headingley - $250 M
2019-21 - diamond at 100/St Mary's - $40 M
2020-22 - diamond at 100/St Anne's - $40 M
2021-23 - wide diamond at 100/3 able to convert to cloverleaf in future - $50 M
2022-24 - diamond at 100/330 - $40 M
2023-26 - complex interchange / flyovers including spur for 75 bypass at 100/Kennaston - $250 M
2024-26 - diamond or parclo at 101/Gunn depending to extension of CPT - $50 M
2025-27 - complete St Norbert bypass to join 75 - $200 M

So, it's doable, for under $1.2 B. Timelines might be optimistic, but the key is to move along from one project to another.

Throw in a diamond at 59N/202 for another $40 M, that should have been included in the 101/59N project, instead of the Christmas trees (signals).

Oh, to dream!

Well the timeline would be fine except that construction moves at a glacial pace here. I would think though that if the money is there thenanything is possible

Edit : add grade separations at rail lines too not necessarily at all but there are a fee that could use it.

[EastK]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Well the timeline would be fine except that construction moves at a glacial pace here. I would think though that if the money is there thenanything is possible

Edit : add grade separations at rail lines too not necessarily at all but there are a fee that could use it.

Are any of these in the pipeline like the interchange at the 100/3? I remember the NDP talking about upgrading the south perimeter but haven't heard anything since.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by EastK

Are any of these in the pipeline like the interchange at the 100/3? I remember the NDP talking about upgrading the south perimeter but haven't heard anything since.

There was a lot of fanfare a couple years ago when the ndp announced that they were spending like 2 billion to make the swi perimeter "interstate standard" or some bs like that. But little has happened since then on what was supposedly a 5 year plan.

[bomberjet]

Election happened.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

Here's a plan:
2017-27:
Close everything else until traffic justifies. Pass a statute outlawing traffic signals on 100/101!
2017-19 - wide diamond at 6/101 with room to convert to cloverleaf in future - $40 M
2017-20 - parclo at 15/101/CNR - $150 M
[...]
2024-26 - diamond or parclo at 101/Gunn depending to extension of CPT - $50 M

HWY 6 is going to need a parclo might as well do it right from the start but it could likely be moved further back on the list until CentrePort is closer to being a happening thing.

HWY 15 and Gunn Rd though are directly linked. The master plan is to essentially move the east-west HWY 15 traffic to new roads that roughly align with Gunn Rd. Gunn Rd is easily the most deadly intersection on the Perimeter as it is currently a stop sign with left turns allowed. The Perimeter traffic doesn't even need to slow from 100 there!

Based on that I would say put the full interchange at the future Gunn Rd location and build the detours up. Make that the top priority. Then look at building a diamond at HWY 15 but further down the line.

[YWG-RO]

Given the debacle from Hydro, I realize what I wrote is a pipe dream.

The idea of a northeast corridor to Oakbank has been discussed for a while. However, I think it likely that PTH 1 west bypass and PTH 75 bypass will come first, given the traffic and population served.

Just think about it: the mismanagement and cost overruns at MB Hydro regarding Bipoke III and Keysak could have financed the modernization of 100/101 and the two bypasses.

What a shame, given that all we needed was a $500 M natural gas plant near Brandon instead of the billions spent that will likely incur $500 M annual interest charges on the $25 B debt.

[Chuck U Farley]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

Here's a plan:
2017-27:
Close everything else until traffic justifies. Pass a statute outlawing traffic signals on 100/101!
2017-19 - wide diamond at 6/101 with room to convert to cloverleaf in future - $40 M
2017-20 - parclo at 15/101/CNR - $150 M
2018-20 - small diamond at Pipeline - $30 M
2020-23 - flyover at 101/190 and extend 190 to PTH 1 past Headingley - $250 M
2019-21 - diamond at 100/St Mary's - $40 M
2020-22 - diamond at 100/St Anne's - $40 M
2021-23 - wide diamond at 100/3 able to convert to cloverleaf in future - $50 M
2022-24 - diamond at 100/330 - $40 M
2023-26 - complex interchange / flyovers including spur for 75 bypass at 100/Kennaston - $250 M
2024-26 - diamond or parclo at 101/Gunn depending to extension of CPT - $50 M
2025-27 - complete St Norbert bypass to join 75 - $200 M

So, it's doable, for under $1.2 B. Timelines might be optimistic, but the key is to move along from one project to another.

Throw in a diamond at 59N/202 for another $40 M, that should have been included in the 101/59N project, instead of the Christmas trees (signals).

Oh, to dream!

Let's not forget the dangerous Brady Road intersection. This absolutely requires a diamond. Service roads and the closure of all other turnoffs should be in play on 100/101. We should prevent any turnoff points other than the interchanges to service roads.

[optimusREIM]

Facebook has informed me of yet another dust up at pipeline. This is getting ridiculous.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

The idea of a northeast corridor to Oakbank has been discussed for a while. However, I think it likely that PTH 1 west bypass and PTH 75 bypass will come first, given the traffic and population served.

The proposals for the Oak Bank corridor route are easily 20+ years old now. The traffic HWY 15 handles makes twinning the route between 206 and Winnipeg a safety issue. Most of the other major routes near Winnipeg are already twinned. Due to the location on the CN mainline relative to HWY 15 it makes twinning the existing route very difficult. This is why similar to CCW replacing Inkster that a replacement route is proposed.

One of the other factors that I think has been a factor on the progress on the Oak Bank corridor is the area is extremely loyal voters for the Conservative party. It's not like the NDP could use that project as one to help them win votes. That loyalty might be something that gets rewarded now and sees Oak Bank corridor say move ahead of the somewhat unpopular St Norbert bypass. I would be shocked though if it jumps the Headingley bypass.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Due to the location on the CN mainline relative to HWY 15 it makes twinning the existing route very difficult.

It looks like there is a lot of room between PTH 15 and the CN mainline... hard to believe that they couldn't fit another 2 lanes of traffic in there.

I always thought it was kind of weird that MI wanted to build a short 4 lane expressway to a town that isn't particularly large, as opposed to just twinning 15 instead. If the plan had just been to twin 15 to the Oakbank turnoff, it probably could have happened years ago.

Anyone know what the ROW for the Oakbank highway would look like? I presume it would be an extension of Gunn Road? Crazy to think that it could mean adding another at-grade intersection on a busy highway.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Facebook has informed me of yet another dust up at pipeline. This is getting ridiculous.

Again?? In addition the one I mentioned from Sept. 20? Apparently RCMP were setting up shop there to keep everyone in check.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

It looks like there is a lot of room between PTH 15 and the CN mainline... hard to believe that they couldn't fit another 2 lanes of traffic in there.

I always thought it was kind of weird that MI wanted to build a short 4 lane expressway to a town that isn't particularly large, as opposed to just twinning 15 instead. If the plan had just been to twin 15 to the Oakbank turnoff, it probably could have happened years ago.

Anyone know what the ROW for the Oakbank highway would look like? I presume it would be an extension of Gunn Road? Crazy to think that it could mean adding another at-grade intersection on a busy highway.

Gunn Rd already intersects with 101. I would hope if the Oakbank thing ever happened, the interchange would be built day one. The corridor would look something like CCW I would presume. Gunn Rd would likely remain as a service road, with the CPT extension being to the south of existing roadway. The land is set aside as part of whatever land development is going in there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Gunn Rd already intersects with 101.

Sorry, I meant to say another traffic signalled intersection... it would be quite busy. One would hope they'd build an interchange there on day one as with CCW/101, but man... who knows.