The Economics of Development and Business in Winnipeg and Manitoba

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Of course I would like to see more development. It's good for everybody in this city. It's a huge part of our economy and keeps a lots of people employed and that's good news all around.

Given the realities is there anything you feel could - in the short term - progress in that direction?

It's not that I don't get excited about things, it's that I get more annoyed than anything at a lot of the things proposed because they're totally unrealistic from the beginning, and they either don't get built or they get scaled back because that's the only way they get built, and then trust is eroded as proposals are floated that the developer knows they can never construct just to gain public sentiment. Or they float them, get everybody in a lather, and then immediately run to government to close the budgetary gaps. (Ahem, SkyCity...)

I don't disagree ultimately. Moves like that are sneaky and are two-faced for the tax paying public. However, part of the fun of this forum (at least for people like myself) is looking at these proposals and talking about what could be done, what is being done, things like that.

It's also annoying when design professionals float concepts that aren't realistic in this city. The public has a certain expectation of what development should look like because there's no shortage of people writing about things happening in Calgary, and Toronto, and Vancouver, etc. where people pay $690/sq ft. But that stuff isn't realistic here. Not because there's no will or foresight or creative thought because its evident we have all of those things; it's because we can't support a lot of that development here. Why? You guessed it: the way our economy has taken shape. We like to think we're something we're not which leads to a dissonance between what we should have and what we actually do and whose fault that ultimately is. More often than not, of course, it's apparently the fault of some greedy developer who is just trying squeeze something out of the city and a complicit and feckless planning department who can't understand their role as the public steward, or a suburban mentality or whatever else the flavour do the day might be.

Sometimes this is true. But more often, it's that there's some insurmountable financial issue that's stopping things from proceeding because everybody wants to build the greatest thing they possibly can, sometimes they just can't.

And the materials we use, and the heights and densities we build at are all a function of the bottom line. To understand the why and the how of how any project ultimately manifests or doesn't is to understand how the money was spent and what's expected out of it. Save, of course, for a few institutional projects that don't have the same constraints, the majority of questions asked about projects comes down to the money.

There are some very interesting points and context here too. I can't comment much on it because its not something I know much of. But I do understand and agree where some of that frustration comes from - its tough to truly understand how every person does their job. Sort of like those mind-numbingly clueless callers who phone in TSN 1290 pouring gruelling misguided and incorrect frustrations after Jets games - apparently not really understanding anything about hockey.

Though perhaps there is merit to some criticisms. You mentioned elsewhere how there is much more money being wasted in Winnipeg, so perhaps criticism in certain areas is warranted or questioning what could be done differently.

In fact, these types of discussion points are another reason I enjoy coming to the forum.

If you don't mind, please expand on the bolded.

I can assure you that most elements that are omitted (including entire commercial spaces at grade) have less to do with somebody's lack of adherence to certain design principles or outright dismissal of them than they do with money. That's why I give the responses I do; because they're part and parcel to the questions about why Winnipeg can't just do more to promote a 'better city'.

We could successfully develop this city - without subsidy - if the zoning by-laws were relaxed and there wasn't so much meddling from the public. Of course, that depends upon your idea of success, but it would happen gradually and over time and it wouldn't be beautiful and world class because that isn't the sort of city we are, but it would be functional and contributory and we'd still be 'steady-as-she-goes'. Instead, the city, with the help of the public, demands that we do our best to ignore our fiscal realities and try to create a world-class, pedestrian-friendly city in a geographic location where the majority of people barely leave the house for five months of the year.

Which is fine. I'm just not interested in being forced into buying the concept that governments who intervene in development markets build great cities, because they don't.

I respect this portion - fiscal realities will always be where the line is drawn.

I can't speak for the general public by large but many times posters on this forum express frustration (myself included - even though I don't live in Manitoba anymore) is because we do wish for more and want something better. For me, I have an affinity with Winnipeg, I think its a fantastic city and there is much I love about it, and will always love about it. I find the developments much more fascinating there out of interest.

Sure everything boils down to money at the end of the day, but many of us on this forum generally know that. Different posters also have different opinions, and if someone wants to express their frustration - that is their prerogative.

It would be nice to discuss how something could change

For example,for the Perimeter to be upgraded to safer standards and become truly free flow, would take a lot of money that the province likely can't afford in one go...But how then could they do something feasible? What type of plan could they roll out say over the next decade that would actually upgrade the ring road? I don't believe that they simple can't...I feel with some better management they could probably do something to figure that out. So what are the economics behind that? What could be done to make it work?