NHL heading to Winnipeg!!!

[mexx_P]

I'm with Feepa....It would be nice to see another team in Canada, but I'm skeptical about the long term stability of a team in Winnipeg.

[duper]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

Any idea if the board of governors would vote to move a team to Canada? I've heard that they weren't receptive to that, or did they suddenly wake up and smell the money?

They actually have few options, so a team in Winnipeg seems somewhat inevitable. There are a slew of unhealthy teams in the Southern US, and very few viable relocation possibilities in the States.

I used to think that the "bring back the Jets" movement was just diehard fans, but it seems they will get their team by the start of the 2011-2012 season.

[fenwick16]

I think that the NHL should cut the number of regular season games to about 60 per season and cut the first two playoff rounds to "best of 5" series. This would reduce revenue but also reduce salaries based on the current salary cap as a percentage of revenue.

I know this will never happen, but then maybe the NHL could just play from early November to the End of April (including playoffs) and not have to compete so much with the MLB, NFL, and NBA playoffs in the US. Then maybe more hockey fans will be able to afford the NHL. The NFL does very well with just 16 regular season games a year. If the NFL was extended to 20 plus regular season games a year then I think people would start getting tired of the NFL also. (too much of a good thing ...). I used to watch almost all of the NHL playoff games, now I don't become interested until the semi-finals.

And to really make it interesting, how about making the games 4 skaters versus 4 skaters (at one time it was 6 on 6 with the wanderer position - although I wasn't around to see it). Then the rosters could be cut to 12 plus 2 goalies to reduce the salaries and ticket prices. Just imagine the lineups that each team would have (almost all would be star players).

[trueviking]

winnipeg was 15 minutes away from getting the coyotes last thursday.

true north put $170m cash on the table and glendale buckled throwing $25m in taxpayer dollars to try and keep them.


Bettman coolly exploits both Winnipeg and Glendale
DAVID SHOALTS

Globe and Mail Update

If there was any doubt about the shamelessness of the NHL when it comes to the Phoenix Coyotes, it was erased last Thursday when commissioner Gary Bettman had an ultimatum delivered to the city officials of Glendale, Ariz.

Show us proof you have $25-million (all currency U.S.) available to cover the Coyotes’ operating losses next season, the suburban Phoenix community was told, or we will sell the team immediately to someone who will move it. Glendale city council member Phil Lieberman said Tuesday they were not told who was buying the Coyotes or where they were going, but he found out the destination was Winnipeg.

The ultimatum was made one week after Bettman dismissed reports he had a backup plan to sell the Coyotes to True North Sports and Entertainment of Winnipeg. “Rampant speculation that has no foundation,” Bettman said in one interview.

But there was Bettman’s henchman, deputy commissioner Bill Daly, dropping a Winnipeg grenade into the lap of Glendale city manager Ed Beasley. Cough up $25-million or we’re out of here.

Officials from the city of 250,000 were given until 5 p.m. Friday to produce the $25-million guarantee, according to one source. They caved at 4:45, with 15 minutes to spare.

People from Glendale and Winnipeg should be outraged. Bettman and Daly have long told both cities, with straight faces, that they would love to have both of them in the NHL. But not, apparently, before one is told to shut up and cough up, and the other is used coldly as a bargaining chip.

“Well, he has the cards in his pocket,” Lieberman said when asked why the city surrendered the cash. “He’s got three aces – the franchise.”

Glendale politicians are terrified of losing the franchise, so they willingly compounded one huge mistake with another. The first mistake was borrowing $180-million to build Jobing.com Arena for former Coyotes owner Steve Ellman. Now they feel they have no choice but to throw good money after bad to avoid losing the anchor tenant even if that tenant loses more than $20-million in a good year.

Actually, the city missed a chance to throw Jim Balsillie’s money at the NHL. Last fall, when the BlackBerry billionaire was fighting to buy the Coyotes, he offered Glendale $42-million to drop its opposition to him. Even if he lost, Balsillie promised, Glendale could keep $25-million, no strings attached.

Lieberman was the only Glendale councillor to say grab the money. So now the city had to cough up $25-million from what it calls an “enterprise fund account,” which is a reserve account originally ticketed for expenses that will come due in a few years.

Oh, don’t worry, say some city councillors and staffers and, of course, Bettman. That money will not be needed because it’s only insurance in case the team isn’t sold and it surely will be. Oh yes, the sale has been nothing but smooth so far, hasn’t it?

All the city really did was accept one ultimatum so the NHL could drop another one on it. The agreement spelling out how the city will cover up to $25-million in losses next season also says the city has until Dec. 31 to find a local buyer or the NHL will sell it to someone (hello True North) it has waiting to move the team. Lieberman said the city was told there was a cash offer of $170-million on the table.

The problem is, Lieberman points out, this hogties the city in its negotiations with the only two prospective local buyers. One, Jerry Reinsdorf, is not that interested. The other, the Ice Edge group, is not that credible.

“This means the city is almost blackmailed into accepting the terms of the owners,” Lieberman said, referring to negotiations between the two prospective owners over an arena lease.

The city has a memorandum of understanding with both Reinsdorf and Ice Edge but that is only an outline of an agreement. Indications are that Reinsdorf’s negotiators are playing hardball over the details, and who wouldn’t, once it was shown the city is willing to surrender $25-million a year?

“Suppose the NHL doesn’t accept any [lease] we approve and hand off to them for acceptance?” Lieberman said. “There’s a big hole there.”

There is also the Goldwater Institute, the conservative watchdog that is looking to take Glendale to court for spending too much of the taxpayers’ money. One of their lawyers said Tuesday they are still studying the agreement between the NHL and Glendale.

And also holding their noses, one supposes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1580853/

[freeweed]

It's a nice theory, but salaries are not based on "number of games".

You might as well just say "hey NHL, reduce ticket prices, and that will reduce salaries, and then places like Phoenix could afford a team". Not gonna happen for too many reasons to mention here.

Besides, MLB plays TWICE as many games as the NHL, in far larger facilities, and they manage to sell plenty of tickets.

The NHL isn't doing bad in the south because of competition from other sports. They're doing bad in the south because NO ONE THERE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT HOCKEY.

Seriously, I had to go to 3 different large shopping malls in Phoenix just to find a Coyotes jersey. It ain't the NFL that's keeping interest down.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by duper

They actually have few options, so a team in Winnipeg seems somewhat inevitable. There are a slew of unhealthy teams in the Southern US, and very few viable relocation possibilities in the States.

I used to think that the "bring back the Jets" movement was just diehard fans, but it seems they will get their team by the start of the 2011-2012 season.

im not so sure there are other teams ready to move...if true north cant pry away the coyotes who are bankrupt, owned by the league and in the worst market in the NHL....how will they get any other team?...nobody is anywhere near as dire as phoenix and they still might not move.

there are lots of teams for sale but none that are portable.

i think if they dont get the coyotes it will be a long time before a team comes to winnipeg or quebec.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

Any idea if the board of governors would vote to move a team to Canada? I've heard that they weren't receptive to that, or did they suddenly wake up and smell the money?

the board will have to approve any new owner...im sure the richest man in canada is someone they are salivating over....when the option is a bunch of frat boys from thunder bay without any real money running a team paid for with bank loans and supported by heavy subsidies in phoenix or a man worth 22 billion, the decision will be easy no matter where he wants his team to play.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by freeweed

It's a nice theory, but salaries are not based on "number of games".

You might as well just say "hey NHL, reduce ticket prices, and that will reduce salaries, and then places like Phoenix could afford a team". Not gonna happen for too many reasons to mention here.

Besides, MLB plays TWICE as many games as the NHL, in far larger facilities, and they manage to sell plenty of tickets.

The NHL isn't doing bad in the south because of competition from other sports. They're doing bad in the south because NO ONE THERE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT HOCKEY.

Seriously, I had to go to 3 different large shopping malls in Phoenix just to find a Coyotes jersey. It ain't the NFL that's keeping interest down.

The salary cap is a percentage of the NHL revenues (according to the new collective bargaining agreement) so indirectly it is related to the number of games. I realize this won't happen (a reduced number of games) however the season has been repeatedly extended over the years to the point where the season ends in mid-June and then preseason games start up again in mid-September. So there are only about 3 full months of no hockey. The MLB season ends early in November and preseason starts again in March (but in the southern States). So the MLB actually has a longer off-season (4 months). However, even the MLB has too many games.

At one time I was a hockey fanatic but it has gotten to the point of being ridiculous. The season is simply too long and too expensive for most fans. This has been caused by the greed of both the owners and players. I think many fans are just getting tired of it.

If Winnipeg really wants an NHL team then I hope they will get one, but I think that so many years went by without a team in Winnipeg because people in Winnipeg and potential Winnipeg owners realized that it was as much of a liability as a benefit.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

At one time I was a hockey fanatic but it has gotten to the point of being ridiculous. The season is simply too long and too expensive for most fans. This has been caused by the greed of both the owners and players. I think many fans are just getting tired of it.

You must be a fair bit older than me, because in my entire memory the season has always been around 80 games. At least 25 years that I can think of. Playoffs aren't any longer than I remember, unless I missed a round being added a while back.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

And to really make it interesting, how about making the games 4 skaters versus 4 skaters

Great idea - and when a team gets a power play, they get to put a 5th man on the ice (who must wear a cape).

[Biff]

Originally Posted by freeweed

You must be a fair bit older than me, because in my entire memory the season has always been around 80 games. At least 25 years that I can think of. Playoffs aren't any longer than I remember, unless I missed a round being added a while back.

A while back weren't the first couple of playoff rounds 5 games as opposed to the current 7. I can't remember.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by freeweed

You must be a fair bit older than me, because in my entire memory the season has always been around 80 games. At least 25 years that I can think of. Playoffs aren't any longer than I remember, unless I missed a round being added a while back.

I started following it back around 1969 (I was very young at the time) so I remember when the original 6 teams were still much better than the 6 expansion teams. I also remember the 2nd round of expansion (I think Vancouver and Buffalo). I also remember the WHA starting up and the California Golden Seals (they are gone now) when they wore white skates. I even remember when Tim Horton, Jean Beliveau and Gordie Howe were still playing.

I vaguely remember the season being around 72 games long (?) and when there were only 3 playoff series instead of 4 (4 teams from each conference). I have heard of the season being only 50 games long although that was long before my time.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Biff

A while back weren't the first couple of playoff rounds 5 games as opposed to the current 7. I can't remember.

Yes, I think just the first round was best of 5 when it went from 8 teams in the playoffs to 16 teams.

[duper]

Originally Posted by trueviking

im not so sure there are other teams ready to move...if true north cant pry away the coyotes who are bankrupt, owned by the league and in the worst market in the NHL....how will they get any other team?

First of all, True North was never actively trying to pry the Coyotes away, but rather waiting in the wings for the NHL to approach them. The deal with Glendale has secured the Coyotes for another season, but their future in the desert is clearly in doubt.

So whenever ANY team is in big trouble, there is an ownership group already in place in Winnipeg. Overall, this makes Winnipeg the first and most obvious relocation destination for a failed franchise.

If Glendale manages to actually keep the Coyotes (which still is a huge IF), there are numerous teams that are in trouble of failing.

Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Florida, Los Angeles, Tampa Bay and Carolina. Take your pick. At least one or two of them will have serious discussion about relocation in the next year.

The bottom line is that the NHL has some serious storms on the horizon when it comes to shoring up its Southern teams.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Great idea - and when a team gets a power play, they get to put a 5th man on the ice (who must wear a cape).

How about first going 4 on 3 for a penalty and then for a two man advantage go 5 on 3 (the team with a 2 man advantage could add one more skater). I am not sure about the idea of the cape ... However, maybe the guy in the penalty box should wear a dunce hat.

(isn't the first 5 minute overtime period 4 on 4 - maybe the NHL brass has considered 4 on 4 hockey - the AHL could try it first)

(source: http://druckerdssa.files.wordpress.c...dunce-hat1.jpg )

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Yes, I think just the first round was best of 5 when it went from 8 teams in the playoffs to 16 teams.

I believe you're right. I remember there used to be a TON of upsets in those 5 game series as well.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by duper

Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Florida, Los Angeles, Tampa Bay and Carolina. Take your pick. At least one or two of them will have serious discussion about relocation in the next year.

The bottom line is that the NHL has some serious storms on the horizon when it comes to shoring up its Southern teams.

LA? While I admit I don't personally have a copy of their balance sheet, they're NEVER mentioned when talking about struggling franchises. Went to a game last year and while it wasn't quite a sellout, there was a strong fan base and plenty of people seemed interested in the game. As opposed to Phoenix, where the hotel not only wanted to give us a complimentary pair of lower bowl tickets, they were completely shocked that we already had bought our own. Apparently just about no one does that when coming into town for a game, because freebies are that easy to get. Did you mean Anaheim? They're always a bit unsteady at the gate but they have such a small rink that overall it's mostly fullish.

You could add the perpetually-broke Islanders and even Colorado to your list though. Neither of those franchises is doing well - it seems folks in Denver are far more fair-weather than the NHL anticipated. Oh wait, it's why they already lost one team.

[freeweed]

Huh, how time flies. You guys were right, it was best-of-5 as recently as 1987.

Then again, it's been 23 years. I think the market has adjusted to that single extra playoff game per rink every season.

The regular season was 78 games long as far back as 1972. Again, I don't think 4 extra games are what's hurting the NHL, considering it's been nearly 40 years and the schedule has been pretty similar.

[kirjtc2]

I read somewhere (Hockey News?) that LA may be sold just because the owners want to focus on other interests. There's no way they're leaving.

After all, a major sports league just couldn't up and abandon the LA market, right? Right?

[MrOilers]

LA seems to be doing alright. The Dallas Stars (who are also doing alright) may be sold as well.