Regional identity

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Not really.

Too many centuries of resentment and distrust.

IMO, once a place reaches a certain size, the idea of a singular 'identity' becomes too abstract.

Like I was trying to think of a cultural figure who represents the mid-Atlantic metros and the first person that came to mind was Allen Iverson, but really he's just a cultural figure for the inner city culture. It's tough to think of things that rope in tens of millions of people

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

IMO, once a place reaches a certain size, the idea of a singular 'identity' becomes too abstract.

Like I was trying to think of a cultural figure who represents the mid-Atlantic metros and the first person that came to mind was Allen Iverson, but really he's just a cultural figure for the inner city culture. It's tough to think of things that rope in tens of millions of people

This is true. The Mid-Atlantic was arguably America's first original "melting pot," too, so it lost any sense of cultural "monolithic-ness" at a very early time--a stew of ethnicities, religious traditions, politics, a huge urban/rural divide, etc. developed pretty quickly during the colonial era and fascinatingly remains to this day.

[SIGSEGV]

I think Hawaii has a pretty strong regional identity. Not sure hiw much is shared with Guam.and Amerigan Samoa.

[Riverranchdrone]

Texas has its own identity. With several variations depending on which part of Texas you are in. North, east, central, south, west and the panhandle are all Texas but different variations of Texas.

[Yuri]

Those kinds of threads are US-only by default, but regarding Brazil, the states with the strongest regional identities are by order Rio Grande do Sul, Bahia and Minas Gerais. The others go from virtually no identity to rather strong ones.

In terms of above state identities, the Northeast is by far the only one, with all 9 states thinking themselves of Northeasterners and are seen by others as Northeasterners. Southerners (3 states) have this as well, but not to the same extent. And there is also a North/Amazon identity all over the Amazon basin.

[iheartthed]

Thinking about this more, I think the three strongest regional identities after southerner are Texan, New Yorker, and Californian, probably in that order.

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'll give Crawford that Presque Isle and Norwalk don't exactly scream a uniform, shared New England identity. But I'd add that anything west of the Connecticut River in Connecticut is suspect to begin with. Any place where Yankees caps are on parity with or outnumber Sox caps cannot be New England, by definition. And yes, that does mean Boston University's campus is technically not in New England.

You basically have 3 subcultures in New England: Coastal, Inland, and Fairfield Connecticut. All three share most cultural norms more than they share with any other American region, although the New York part of CT shares the least. Coastal Rhode Island and Coastal Maine - especially the working fishing towns - are substantially similar. The Berkshires, the Green Mountains, the White Mountains, and Aroostook are all substantially similar.

Boston, despite being on the coast, is the hub connecting all the Coastal and Inland spokes.

I guess this is a little different than what I thought "identity" meant. There are obviously strong cultural similarities across New England states, but I never really thought there was a shared identity, as in a well defined distinction between in-group and out-group. Similar to how Mediterranean countries all have super strong cultural similarities but absolutely no regional identity.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Crawford

New England has a strong identity? I never got that feeling. The South, sure.

New England is the ruling "elite" culture of America that has disseminated out to being the general wealthy urban bicoastal culture. The culture of the university, the culture of the general "liberal" and moderately progressive. Protestant work ethic that has evolved into an atheistic "humanist" moral framework of how all "good decent and productive" Americans should think and act. They aren't really "wasps" anymore those ethnic markers have died off over the last 50-60 years.

New Englanders generally see people not like this to be somewhere between backwards and needing to be saved or abhorrent and needing to be destroyed.

Hard to see the waters you swim in.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I always find this sort of comment interesting. No, Philadelphia is not directly on the coast, but the river is tidal with the ocean, the port is a seaport where panamax ships import goods and seagulls hangout and squawk in the parking lots. If Philadelphia wasn't close to the coast, it would not have been one of the first places settled in America. And there's a train that literally drops you off on the beach

I always find this peculiar as well. We're 50 minutes from the Atlantic Ocean, on a river that empties into the 2nd largest bay on the east coast. We get hurricanes, noreasters, and other weather events that generate from the power of the ocean. You're more likely to see a seagull in Philadelphia than you are a pigeon, not to mention the eagles, cranes, and egrets that nest in the waters of the Delaware River. Juvenile whales occassionally venture all the way up river from the Delaware Bay.

We're not further inland than significant population centers of other coastal states. Much of the topography of the region is low lying marsh and wetlands, particularly in the Delaware River basin. Were it not for arbitrary state lines and say, we were a part of New Jersey, no one would question if we were coastal.

Anyways. I think of New England as a culturally distinct place. For lots of different reasons. There's a hard hewn stubbornness, a committment to fairness, hard work. Plaid and corduroy and Subarus are a real thing. The topography, the architecture, the trust in government. The construct of the "town" (and town square) that supercedes the county in most New England jurisdictions. The lack of unincorporated areas. It's all just very New England to me.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Those kinds of threads are US-only by default, but regarding Brazil, the states with the strongest regional identities are by order Rio Grande do Sul, Bahia and Minas Gerais. The others go from virtually no identity to rather strong ones.

In terms of above state identities, the Northeast is by far the only one, with all 9 states thinking themselves of Northeasterners and are seen by others as Northeasterners. Southerners (3 states) have this as well, but not to the same extent. And there is also a North/Amazon identity all over the Amazon basin.

It didn't help that Post #1 didn't even contemplate a world beyond the US. I'll do Canada regardless.

Atlantic Canadians have a very strong regional identity. This is often broken down further into Newfoundland or the Maritimes. I spent 20 years in Nova Scotia. I haven't lived on the East Coast since 2001 but still identify as a Maritimer.

Quebec has an identity separate from anglo America. They identify with Quebec alone rather than as central Canadians. Acadians are francophone as well but identity both as Acadian (separate from the Quebecois) but also as Maritimers.

The 3 Prairie provinces seem to identify more as Western Canadians than prairie but I haven't spent enough time there to comment further. British Columbia feels like a separate place as well but there are even divisions within the province. People on the coast (Vancouver/Vancouver Island) are more regionally connected with the adjacent bits to its south (Seattle and Portland) than to interior places (the Okanagan) in their own province.

And then there's the North. People in the 3 territories would absolutely have a strong regional identity. They're a people 'North of 60', in reference to the 60th parallel.

Ontario is left by default. Rather than having a separate regional identity people in Ontario seem to just identify as Canadian. People in Northern Ontario arguably have a strong regional attachment to Northern Ontario specifically. It looks and feels very different than Southern Ontario.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I always find this sort of comment interesting. No, Philadelphia is not directly on the coast, but the river is tidal with the ocean, the port is a seaport where panamax ships import goods and seagulls hangout and squawk in the parking lots. If Philadelphia wasn't close to the coast, it would not have been one of the first places settled in America. And there's a train that literally drops you off on the beach

Phiadelphia is definitely a coastal city lol. Baltimore and Washington also aren't directly on the coast either. And the city of New York didn't touch the coast until 1898.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Hard to see the waters you swim in.

So NYC is New England? Except for grad school, I've never lived in New England.

I'm not challenging the underlying argument but rather the geographical distinction. From where I stand, the NYC and Boston area are culturally closer than even the NYC and Philly areas. Someone growing up in Newton, MA and Dobbs Ferry, NY will have essentially the same environment.

I do think there's a legacy eastern seaboard distinction, but not sure the current conception of New England fully captures it. It's more something hugging the coast from Maine to the Chesapeake, more or less, not going inland much past Albany. It has local variations.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Riverranchdrone

Texas has its own identity. With several variations depending on which part of Texas you are in. North, east, central, south, west and the panhandle are all Texas but different variations of Texas.

Don't forget Southeast Texas, which includes Houston. Houston definitely does not consider itself South Texas or East Texas. And the entire Gulf Coast has a shared experience and identity.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

New England is the ruling "elite" culture of America that has disseminated out to being the general wealthy urban bicoastal culture. The culture of the university, the culture of the general "liberal" and moderately progressive. Protestant work ethic that has evolved into an atheistic "humanist" moral framework of how all "good decent and productive" Americans should think and act. They aren't really "wasps" anymore those ethnic markers have died off over the last 50-60 years.

New Englanders generally see people not like this to be somewhere between backwards and needing to be saved or abhorrent and needing to be destroyed.

Hard to see the waters you swim in.

Hmm... Virginia was the most influential state to the formation of the country and national culture, and it's not particularly close. It's no coincidence that the city of Washington sits on some random piece of land just a couple dozen miles from where the plantations for most of Virginia's elite slave-owning class were located.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It didn't help that Post #1 didn't even contemplate a world beyond the US. I'll do Canada regardless.

Atlantic Canadians have a very strong regional identity. This is often broken down further into Newfoundland or the Maritimes. I spent 20 years in Nova Scotia. I haven't lived on the East Coast since 2001 but still identify as a Maritimer.

Quebec has an identity separate from anglo America. They identify with Quebec alone rather than as central Canadians. Acadians are francophone as well but identity both as Acadian (separate from the Quebecois) but also as Maritimers.

The 3 Prairie provinces seem to identify more as Western Canadians than prairie but I haven't spent enough time there to comment further. British Columbia feels like a separate place as well but there are even divisions within the province. People on the coast (Vancouver/Vancouver Island) are more regionally connected with the adjacent bits to its south (Seattle and Portland) than to interior places (the Okanagan) in their own province.

And then there's the North. People in the 3 territories would absolutely have a strong regional identity. They're a people 'North of 60', in reference to the 60th parallel.

Ontario is left by default. Rather than having a separate regional identity people in Ontario seem to just identify as Canadian. People in Northern Ontario arguably have a strong regional attachment to Northern Ontario specifically. It looks and feels very different than Southern Ontario.

Canada's 10 provinces = 6 cultural regions (and the northern territories another). Newfoundland, Maritimes, Quebec, Ontario, Prairies, BC. There's nearly as many cultural regions as there are provinces. Quebec is of course a nation within a nation. Geography does a good job keeping the rest separate. More than a third of all Canadians and nearly half of all English-speaking Canadians live in Ontario. Canadian Shield separates the east and the west.

Regional identity is far more prescient in Canadian politics than American politics too. People talk about "red and blue states" but voting patterns are basically demographic-driven (religion/religiosity, race/ethnicity, education). Region itself plays little role in voting patterns as far as I can tell.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Crawford

NYC and Boston area are culturally closer than even the NYC and Philly areas. Someone growing up in Newton, MA and Dobbs Ferry, NY will have essentially the same environment.

I do think there's a legacy eastern seaboard distinction, but not sure the current conception of New England fully captures it. It's more something hugging the coast from Maine to the Chesapeake, more or less, not going inland much past Albany. It has local variations.

I personally see the NYC area as having a much stronger Mid-Atlantic bent than what is prototypically New England (excepting, of course, parts of SWCT or Long Island).

That being said, I think your secondary point is very true. The rural/urban divide is arguably stronger today than it ever was. And to that end, the Northeast Corridor is now a very powerful "cultural overlay" that transcends multiple regions of the US. And the big metro areas within this "NEC overlay" are arguably far more comparable to one another than any other within their respective states.

[Docere]

Mid-Atlantic is a very vaguely defined term. The term doesn't seem to be used much in the NYC area, even though the Census Bureau says Mid-Atlantic = NY/NJ/PA. It's used more in the DMV, a transition area between north and south. There was also what was called the Mid-Atlantic accent which was spoken the American upper classes and used in the very early days of Hollywood which sounds like an American-British hybrid.

The closest thing to a true Mid-Atlantic accent may be Newfoundland, where you have strong Irish and West Country English influences even today.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Ontario is left by default. Rather than having a separate regional identity people in Ontario seem to just identify as Canadian.

My very first thought when I read that was:

• Video Link

My mom used to drive me to that public library in North York seen at the 2:14 mark. I believe it's long gone...

[Docere]

Ontario represents such a large share of the population in English Canada that Ontarians sort of see themselves as English Canada writ large.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Docere

Ontario represents such a large share of the population in English Canada that Ontarians sort of see themselves as English Canada writ large.

And, unless I'm mistaken, the rest of Canada at one time saw them as "Those Bloody Orange Order pricks."

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Docere

Mid-Atlantic is a very vaguely defined term. The term doesn't seem to be used much in the NYC area, even though the Census Bureau says Mid-Atlantic = NY/NJ/PA. It's used more in the DMV, a transition area between north and south. There was also what was called the Mid-Atlantic accent which was spoken the American upper classes and used in the very early days of Hollywood which sounds like an American-British hybrid.

The closest thing to a true Mid-Atlantic accent may be Newfoundland, where you have strong Irish and West Country English influences even today.

Mid-Atlantic, to me at least, means everything between NY metro and northern Virginia. NYC and Washington (or maybe Richmond) are the bookends on the region. I would bucket NYC in more with Mid-Atlantic than I would bucket it with New England, although I think NYC is more of a crossroads between the two regions than the core of mid-Atlantic. Something like Wilmington, DE, is what I think of as thoroughly mid-Atlantic.