Alberta Politics II - Page 54

suburbia · #**1061** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:06 AM**

LINK - https://pressprogress.ca/five-more-t...-need-to-meet/

Corndogger · #**1062** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

It the NDP can get between 35-40% then that's a pretty amazing achievement after being in power for a term in a normally conservative province.

It also would show that Jason Kenney wasn't able to attract support from the NDP which should be a huge concern for the UCP. I am already shocked that so many people would vote for the UCP with Kenney as leader but then again, I live in the province where Doug Ford became Premier. It's not all about the leader of course as we do vote for our MLAs/MPPs.

Rachel Notley gave Alberta a better name outside Alberta. With Kenney, I get the feeling that he won't last very long as Premier and that members of his own party will be irritated by him.

If the predictions hold true, ALL first ministers in Canada will be MALE. That's very sad and pathetic but it happens. I hope that Notley stays on as opposition leader.

Alberta appears to be as hated as ever so I don't see how Rachel's improved our image. Trying to achieve social license and failing is one of the main reasons why many will not vote for her. Appointing radical environmentalists to boards dealing with the energy industry has also not helped her chances of getting reelected. She has done a number of good things which I hope Kenney continues to do such as undertaking much needed major infrastructure projects.

I don't think anyone knows how Kenney will be as a premier but many are convinced he can't do any worse than Rachel when it comes to the economy. People also have had it with Justin and are ready for some big fights with the feds. This might be the main reason why Kenney wins. Guess we'll find out tomorrow night or on the weekend if the vote is close. lol

Chadillaccc · #**1063** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:48 AM**

In the last 12 polls, the UCP has an average popular vote percentage of 47.5%, while the NDP is at 38%.

Not looking good.

Corndogger · #**1064** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 3:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

In the last 12 polls, the UCP has an average popular vote percentage of 47.5%, while the NDP is at 38%.

Not looking good.

It's going to be a blowout seat wise. I kind of wish we'd be getting a minority UCP government because we need to fight the feds and Jason is much more suited to that task than Rachel. Rachel would be good at keeping the UCP in check when it comes to maintaining needed infrastructure spending and ensuring that we don't start revisiting social issues that probably 90% of us feel have been settled. The best thing Kenney could do on that front is to come out right away and assure people nothing is going to change and that everyone's rights will be respected and protected. We need to unite as Albertans and defeat the forces that are trying to destroy us.

suburbia · #**1065** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

LINK - https://pressprogress.ca/five-more-t...-need-to-meet/

Surprised Kenney would have accepted this crook. What will the folks in Cardston say?

suburbia · #**1066** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

I care deeply about the economy. That's why I'm not voting UCP.

There are many, many people who agree with you milomilo, and those assessments are based on fact and not mindless allegiance to a false narrative.

The article below details how now Kenney's platform is going to be quite negative for the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

LINK - https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...orate-tax-cuts

The experience we’ve had with corporate tax cuts in recent years and broadly accepted evidence about their impacts by U.S. and Canadian government agencies demonstrates that the large corporate tax cuts Kenney is promising would have very small positive economic impacts, if any at all.

Instead, a large share of these billions in tax cuts would flow out of Alberta to the foreign owners of the province’s large resource companies, at the great expense of ordinary Albertans.

suburbia · #**1067** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:33 PM**

Wait, what is this? NDP in a statistical tie with the UCP in battleground Calgary?

LINK - https://www.scribd.com/document/4063...Ab-15april2019

In the above poll from yesterday, it shows that in large part, the overall lead for the UCP is because of rural Alberta. This makes sense given UCP policies such as not building the Springbank Off-Stream Reservoir. But those overall numbers may be creating a false sense for the UCP, because it does't matter if they win in the rural areas by 5% or 50% - the number of ridings remains the same, even if the popular vote at a provincial level sees the UCP in a comfortable lead.

So NDP take Edmonton and UCP take rural areas. If the NDP can take a couple small municipality centres like Lethbridge and can get a split in Calgary, this could get very, very interesting indeed.

The question will be:

Are the under 40 demographic energized enough to go out and vote? https://dailyhive.com/calgary/albert...rs-andrew-fung
Will the over 55 crowd be attracted enough by the mix of Alberta Party right wing policies without the UCP social conservatism? https://twitter.com/GarGar4YYCEast/s...12476626997249
Will women come out and vote? https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Nolais/st...02274200608768
While half of the racists have dropped out of the race, will the fact Jason Kenney did not denounce comments such as "rape-ugees" impact the UCP's non-extremist wing? https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Nolais/st...09408229367809
Will the electorate actually review policies when thinking about economy, or will they accept the narrative that the UCP is better for the economy without question? https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...orate-tax-cuts
Has the fact Jason Kenney's legal troubles will handcuff him for at least a year even if he wins become a factor in voting decisions? https://pressprogress.ca/some-listed...ocuments-show/

Of course the above is a long list of "ifs".

suburbia · #**1068** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:50 PM**

LINK - https://pressprogress.ca/some-listed...ocuments-show/

Where will the Sikh vote go given how Kenney has abused their loyalty?

Will other ethnic communities consider not supporting Kenney given what they see having happened to the Sikhs?

suburbia · #**1069** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 2:59 PM**

The recent performance of Jason Kenney's UCP has been akin to the performance of the Calgary Flames in yesterday night's game. After having had a spectacular regular season finishing 1st in the Pacific Division and achieving 107 points (2nd highest in their illustrious history), they lost the game in the first five minutes. 56 shots?

Sorry. I'm a huge Flames Fan myself, and I know making the parallel will annoy people on all sides, but just look at those facts. The regular season doesn't matter much - it only matters when it counts. When you're into the voting day playoffs.

• Video Link

ciudad_del_norte · #**1070** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 3:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

It's going to be a blowout seat wise. I kind of wish we'd be getting a minority UCP government because we need to fight the feds and Jason is much more suited to that task than Rachel. Rachel would be good at keeping the UCP in check when it comes to maintaining needed infrastructure spending and ensuring that we don't start revisiting social issues that probably 90% of us feel have been settled. The best thing Kenney could do on that front is to come out right away and assure people nothing is going to change and that everyone's rights will be respected and protected. We need to unite as Albertans and defeat the forces that are trying to destroy us.

Is there really some big conspiracy out to destroy Alberta? I'm not uniting in any imaginary war where we blame others for the fact that we were so arrogant to waste the benefits of a hot economy. I'm not going to unite with a delusional ideology that thinks if we throw enough tantrums somehow oil will get back to what it was. I don't see Kenney's antagonistic approach towards the rest of the world and insistence on outdated ineffective economic policy uniting Alberta. As much as he likes to paint it otherwise - Kenney's politics thrive on division and "us vs them". If the assumption that this will somehow coalesce Alberta into a unified "us" - I don't buy it. Especially since Kenney has already implictly excluded many from the idea of "us". "Ordinary Albertans" as used by the UCP is fake inclusive and many of us are well aware that we will not be considered part of that club.

Also, Kenney can say whatever we wants about rights, but most of us have no reason to trust him. He had his chance to convince us he was going to stand up for marginalized people and he has blatantly refused to do so. The onus for protecting people's rights is once again going to fall on the people that will actually be affected. Many of those that you speak of that see these issued as settled have already shown with their UCP support that they are willing to sacrifice the security and rights of others for a sketchy economic plan.

I'd agree that we need to do something different for the economy, but Kenny is actually just more of the same. The same thing we did for 40 years. It seemed like it worked but only because we got lucky with resources. As soon as that shifted the infrastructure debt and poor policy became apparent. The idea that the NDP is a failure because not everything was fixed in 4 years, yet we need to double down on conservative economic policies that brought us here after decades... I don't think is going to work out as well as many expect.

240glt · #**1071** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 4:04 PM**

Fighting, firewalls and populist, divisive rhetoric might make people feel good but it doesn't accomplish anything. That's been proven over & over, yet here we go again.

I don't understand this belief that there are forces that are out to "get" Alberta. It's bizarre, paranoid delusion that seems to manifest itself through what people see as attacks on Albertans "way of life" (whatever that means) "economy" (Sorry Alberta, but you hitched your wagon to an increasingly frail horse, and flogging harder it ain't going to make it trot any faster) and "freedom" (again, whatever that means) I suppose this string sense of individualism that seems pervasive in this province is what drives a lot of that. Seeing interviews on the news these past few days, you get that sense, especially from certain groups of Albertans that individualism is a key tenet to them, and I can appreciate that. But that's not how modern society works. These people are fighting a losing battle if they feel the province can enshrine ideas of individualism into the operations of government.

It's too bad this election has gotten so dirty but there's a lot of misplaced anger and frustration, and I guess folks want an outlet and they don't really care whether it' wright or wrong, they just want to "get" the other guy.

I at least appreciated the last four years of "good" politics, even if some of that goodness was misguided or at the expense of some of the powerful lobbies that have controlled Alberta for so long. The last party was so corrupt, so beholden to interests that were not in the best interests of the general population, At the very least the NDP made significant efforts to do what was right for people in Alberta. When the NDP deputy ministers requested briefings from the various departments and policy documents were created, what's "good" and "right" was always a strong factor in drafting policy. That's something that was missing from government in Alberta for a long time. I think we're headed right back in that direction.

ciudad_del_norte · #**1072** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 4:31 PM**

The part that I find a bit ironic is that many Albertans would claim to support capitalist ideology.

But...part of the way that is supposed to work is that if what you do is isn't economically viable, the market drives innovation. Why are we so set on trying to get back onto something that has failed us - multiple times now.

I've spent a bunch of time studying economic theory to understand if there is something obvious that I'm missing that would make the UCP a better choice. In the end and I now feel even less confident that UCP has a good plan.

Even if oil does recover to some extent...do we really think that is where we want to focus? Does it really seem wise to put all the eggs back into that basket again?

That being said, there is a substantial population that will probably never again be able to make the money they did in the past. And the kind of money that they now feel entitled to. That is a tough place to be, I get it. Previous governments and Albertans overall are complicit in pretending that it was going to last forever. I'm sure people want to vent their frustration, but blaming Trudeau or BC instead of ourselves probably does feel good.

For a province that often talks about being driven and bootstraps there seems to a lot of complaining and blaming.

lubicon · #**1073** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

The part that I find a bit ironic is that many Albertans would claim to support capitalist ideology.

But...part of the way that is supposed to work is that if what you do is isn't economically viable, the market drives innovation. Why are we so set on trying to get back onto something that has failed us - multiple times now.

I've spent a bunch of time studying economic theory to understand if there is something obvious that I'm missing that would make the UCP a better choice. In the end and I now feel even less confident that UCP has a good plan.

Even if oil does recover to some extent...do we really think that is where we want to focus? Does it really seem wise to put all the eggs back into that basket again?

That being said, there is a substantial population that will probably never again be able to make the money they did in the past. And the kind of money that they now feel entitled to. That is a tough place to be, I get it. Previous governments and Albertans overall are complicit in pretending that it was going to last forever. I'm sure people want to vent their frustration, but blaming Trudeau or BC instead of ourselves probably does feel good.

For a province that often talks about being driven and bootstraps there seems to a lot of complaining and blaming.

Counterpoint is that it is only not economically viable in Canada and that is largely due to non market forces. The energy industry is doing well and even expanding outside of Canada. To call it a dying industry is not accurate, we are essentially hamstringing it only in our own country. That is what many Albertans would argue.

Corndogger · #**1074** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 7:23 PM**

I'm looking through the UCP platform document--114 pages!--and found something that makes me happy, especially if they keep their word.

Source: https://www.albertastrongandfree.ca/...Platform-1.pdf (p. 29)

What I'm seeing overall doesn't seem all that scary to me.

ciudad_del_norte · #**1075** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon

Counterpoint is that it is only not economically viable in Canada and that is largely due to non market forces. The energy industry is doing well and even expanding outside of Canada. To call it a dying industry is not accurate, we are essentially hamstringing it only in our own country. That is what many Albertans would argue.

I think this is oversimplification of world energy markets and a way to find somebody concrete to blame. The industry has become increasingly competitive and there is a common assumption that the pipeline is the only issue. No doubt a pipeline would help, but the growth of oil production elsewhere is not a great sign for oil sands development - which is a relatively intensive source of petrochemicals. We boomed for years with existing infrastructure, yet a shift in the market changed the game. Is that really the government's fault?

Also, our oil is located in a pretty inconvenient location, and that creates economic realities that are reflected through politics. Non market forces are really just indirect market forces driven by public opinion and attempts to manage externalities. Where do we draw the line between market and non-market forces? It's not as clear as it may seem, and may not always work out in favour. The decisions of OPEC are arguably non market forces. Yet, without their decisions Alberta production would be even less competitive on the world market.

There is certainly non-market forces at play, but they don't tell the whole story. Furthermore, even if we assume the the only issue was government - do we think we are going to get a better result by starting a game of retaliatory measures? The non market forces at work are still beyond the unilateral power of the provincial government. I think responsible development of oil is fine. But I think we need to beware of blaming our failure to adjust to a shifting market predominantly on regulation while also refusing to make meaningful change. If want to address the non market forces then we need to recognize our existing in a complicated system and systematically deal with the issues, the barriers, including concerns about climate change and environment. Yet the UCP seems to think that the best solution to deal with things outside of our control is to further isolate ourselves.

Oil is a limited resource - at some point its going to run out or will no longer be viable at all. If we are going to develop it, why not do so responsibly? The type of economy Albertan's feel entitled to is neither sustainable, and was kind of a mess socially. Again, why are so keen on putting everything into that one industry?

So while I think there is some truth that some of the issues are "non market" forces, it is still responsible and smart to actually acknowledge and address those forces instead of dismissing them as irrelevant because we don't like what they have to say. I also think it is a way to scapegoat the government - and avoid facing the actual market forces that aren't favourable to us. We're not even able to have the discussion though. Because it feels better to blame Notley and Trudeau.

Do we really want to compete with the parts of the world that don't have to deal with these questions? So we'll have oil that is not only more expensive to produce, but can't even pretend to responsible. Do we think that serves as well in the world market? We keep talking about how our oil is "ethical" but don't want to uphold that allow us to make that claim like rigorous environmental reviews.

I guess my overall point is that many people claim to love the "free market" but need to be careful what they wish for.

Rollerstud98 · #**1076** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 8:06 PM**

Voted today, I live in a safe UCP riding and would have voted UCP if Brian Jean were leader. Ended up voting NDP as our candidate is an entrepreneur, has worked in the trades as a journeyperson scaffolder and is also smokin hot! Last point is what pushed me over the edge lol

Chadillaccc · #**1077** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Voted today, I live in a safe UCP riding and would have voted UCP if Brian Jean were leader. Ended up voting NDP as our candidate is an entrepreneur, has worked in the trades as a journeyperson scaffolder and is also smokin hot! Last point is what pushed me over the edge lol

haha nice

suburbia · #**1078** Posted **Apr 16, 2019, 11:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I'm looking through the UCP platform document--114 pages!-

What I'm seeing overall doesn't seem all that scary to me.

Glad you found a paragraph in the 114 omnibus bill that includes a lot of poison.

Meanwhile, UCP lawyers CONFIRM that the search warrant executed against Peter Singh was indeed in connection with voter fraud in the UCP leadership race. Further, while the hardware was returned, the RCMP mirrored the devices and are now in the process of analyzing. As we already know from investigative reports, many people were signed up without their knowledge, and these have been found to be clients of Peter Singh's business. Further, these same individuals were then leveraged for Kenney votes.

This explains a lot.

People may have wondered by extremely well known city councilor Andre Chabot was so resoundingly defeated in the UCP nomination, losing to someone whom most people have never heard of. He was signing up people without their knowledge!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rant-1.5100362

Chadillaccc · #**1079** Posted **Apr 17, 2019, 2:59 AM**

The results so far are worse than my worst estimations. The UCP will have a stranglehold on Alberta for the next 4 years, making us even more the laughing stock of the country than our lunatic conservatives already make us. Goodbye freedoms for sexual minorities, hello rise of hate crimes and child suicide rates. *thunderous applause*

suburbia · #**1080** Posted **Apr 17, 2019, 3:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The results so far are worse than my worst estimations. The UCP will have a stranglehold on Alberta for the next 4 years, making us even more the laughing stock of the country than our lunatic conservatives already make us. Goodbye freedoms for sexual minorities, hello rise of hate crimes and child suicide rates. *thunderous applause*

Yes.

A true demonstration of how people vote for the colours they've voted for previously is that Peter Singh is winning. Toor, the guy who kept a temporary foreign worker as a slave, is winning. Smith, the guy who said gay people are the same as pedophiles is winning.