The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ando

The Liberals are “still the adversary of unions”? I don’t think that is how they would describe themselves.

The Liberals wouldn't say that about themselves, but the unions formally support the NDP. From their perspective, it's their guys (NDP) vs. everybody else.

The funny thing is that with business, it's the other way around. It's the PCs who are their guys vs. everybody else. In my experience, just about any professional services firm of any size in this province (law, accounting, engineering firm) will have at least one or two PC bagmen who raise money for the party. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but generally speaking it be like that.

So the Liberals occupy kind of a weird middle ground where they don't have a natural base of hardcore support the way the other two parties do.

[bomberjet]

I'm surprised, maybe not TOO surprised, by the near unanimous tone in here regarding the PC's. It was not that many years ago, this thread is full of "NDP go to hell, bring on the Conservative government!!"

It's really telling about how the Pallister government has handled itself. But not surprising.

The cycle just repeats. Not only Provincially, but federally. Conservatives are going to balance the budget by cutting services. But also by "cutting taxes", if you know what I mean. Then the left comes in and borrows money. Rinse and repeat.

Pallister is just an ass. His ministers are not great either. They're in league with the Federal Cons in both Canada and USA. I think it will be a very tight Provincial election next time. Did Pallister already say he's not running? IIRC.

Federally I don't think the Cons can't do any better than they did last time. With their basic clean sweep of the Prairie, save for Winnipeg. I can see Trudeau stepping down after a decade in power and letting Freeland play PM. What will the Cons have to say then? Trudeau most go no more.

[esquire]

^ I kind of wonder if the PCs aren't going to repeat what the NDP did a decade ago and try to shove Pallister out the door? Because I strongly suspect it isn't the party Manitobans can't stand so much as it is Pallister personally... if someone who doesn't come across as petty and abrasive as him were in charge, I bet you the PCs would be at least even with the NDP. The PC ministers who are used to the perks of the job aren't going to be thrilled to give it all up because voters think their boss is a jerk.

It was a similar dynamic with the NDP... people didn't hate that party, but they were sick of Selinger. The 'gang of five' tried and failed to boot him to salvage the party's chances, and when they failed, their fate in the next election was sealed.

Just like Pallister won in 2015 despite not being that popular, Kinew is likely to win next time despite not really being anyone's dream candidate.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I kind of wonder if the PCs aren't going to repeat what the NDP did a decade ago and try to shove Pallister out the door? Because I strongly suspect it isn't the party Manitobans can't stand so much as it is Pallister personally... if someone who doesn't come across as petty and abrasive as him were in charge, I bet you the PCs would be at least even with the NDP. The PC ministers who are used to the perks of the job aren't going to be thrilled to give it all up because voters think their boss is a jerk.

It was a similar dynamic with the NDP... people didn't hate that party, but they were sick of Selinger. The 'gang of five' tried and failed to boot him to salvage the party's chances, and when they failed, their fate in the next election was sealed.

Just like Pallister won in 2015 despite not being that popular, Kinew is likely to win next time despite not really being anyone's dream candidate.

Not sure they even need to kick him out the door. I don't think he had any intention of running in the next election regardless. I'm guessing he'll stay leader for the remainder of the pandemic as he can continue to take the brunt from both sides. He's not doing enough and he's doing too much all at the same time.

I agree that Pallister's personality can be off putting more so than his policies. I'm personally all for the education reform especially getting school taxes off of property bills. I think all Manitoba municipalities are very glad about it too. The NDP was completely unsustainable. People complain of cuts but it had to be done, and I don't think Pallister's cuts have been anywhere near as severe as Filmon back in the day.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm surprised, maybe not TOO surprised, by the near unanimous tone in here regarding the PC's. It was not that many years ago, this thread is full of "NDP go to hell, bring on the Conservative government!!"

It's really telling about how the Pallister government has handled itself. But not surprising.

The cycle just repeats. Not only Provincially, but federally. Conservatives are going to balance the budget by cutting services. But also by "cutting taxes", if you know what I mean. Then the left comes in and borrows money. Rinse and repeat.

Pallister is just an ass. His ministers are not great either. They're in league with the Federal Cons in both Canada and USA. I think it will be a very tight Provincial election next time. Did Pallister already say he's not running? IIRC.

Federally I don't think the Cons can't do any better than they did last time. With their basic clean sweep of the Prairie, save for Winnipeg. I can see Trudeau stepping down after a decade in power and letting Freeland play PM. What will the Cons have to say then? Trudeau most go no more.

Very interesting what has happened in Manitoba re the budget this year. They are now borrowing to fund tax cuts because the Federal transfer increase they'd used to fund the last two rounds of tax cuts didn't increase enough to match the level of revenue they are cutting to fund Pallister's last gasp at popularity tax cuts.

There's nothing resembling fiscal responsibility in this government and they wouldn't understand what the economy actually is if it kicked them in the nuts. It's all about personal gain for Pallister and perhaps a few in cabinet who are looking for safe landing spots after their time as MLA.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Not sure they even need to kick him out the door. I don't think he had any intention of running in the next election regardless. I'm guessing he'll stay leader for the remainder of the pandemic as he can continue to take the brunt from both sides. He's not doing enough and he's doing too much all at the same time.

I agree that Pallister's personality can be off putting more so than his policies. I'm personally all for the education reform especially getting school taxes off of property bills. I think all Manitoba municipalities are very glad about it too. The NDP was completely unsustainable. People complain of cuts but it had to be done, and I don't think Pallister's cuts have been anywhere near as severe as Filmon back in the day.

So you like his educational reform so everything is great? What about the complete hash he has made of COVID? What about the fact that he is cutting tax revenues at the exact time it makes no sense with a ballooning deficit? What about the fact he fights with the feds and leaves federal dollars on the table that other provinces are making good use of? What about declining investments in health and education? What about the fact he has no environment plan? What about the fact he doesn’t fund transportation projects in Winnipeg? You like the Reform Party? You got it. If you’re an ideologue, no worries. If not, you need to take a harder look at what’s going on around you.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Ando

So you like his educational reform so everything is great? What about the complete hash he has made of COVID? What about the fact that he is cutting tax revenues at the exact time it makes no sense with a ballooning deficit? What about the fact he fights with the feds and leaves federal dollars on the table that other provinces are making good use of? What about declining investments in health and education? What about the fact he has no environment plan? What about the fact he doesn’t fund transportation projects in Winnipeg? You like the Reform Party? You got it. If you’re an ideologue, no worries. If not, you need to take a harder look at what’s going on around you.

When did I say everything is great exactly? I can actually look at things from a balanced perspective. For example, it's just factually incorrect that he doesn't have an environment plan. Also you say he made a hash out of covid? What jurisdiction in Canada had the glowing response you would have preferred? Manitoba has less overall cases per capita over the course of the pandemic than AB, ON, QC and SK. What's your criticism exactly?

Shockingly you can agree with certain aspects of policy and not all of them. Also you can actually disagree with majority of policy but prefer it to the alternative.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by cheswick

When did I say everything is great exactly? I can actually look at things from a balanced perspective. For example, it's just factually incorrect that he doesn't have an environment plan. Also you say he made a hash out of covid? What jurisdiction in Canada had the glowing response you would have preferred? Manitoba has less overall cases per capita over the course of the pandemic than AB, ON, QC and SK. What's your criticism exactly?

Shockingly you can agree with certain aspects of policy and not all of them. Also you can actually disagree with majority of policy but prefer it to the alternative.

You can argue both sides of the pandemic response on this one and never come up with a fulsome answer. Yes, we seemed to do better than ON, QC, AB and SK. But we did significantly worse than the Atlantic provinces, who, in my mind, were the only jurisdictions to get it right. Our government let us down in the summer and early fall when the cases were spiking and chose not to do anything about it. They failed at the response for the nursing homes where hundreds of people died like an overheated fish tank because we didn't learn from our counterparts and develop appropriate procedures for COVID protection with visitors and staff alike. So, one on end, you can argue that we have done relatively well compared to some jurisdictions, but not as well as others. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by cheswick

When did I say everything is great exactly? I can actually look at things from a balanced perspective. For example, it's just factually incorrect that he doesn't have an environment plan. Also you say he made a hash out of covid? What jurisdiction in Canada had the glowing response you would have preferred? Manitoba has less overall cases per capita over the course of the pandemic than AB, ON, QC and SK. What's your criticism exactly?

Shockingly you can agree with certain aspects of policy and not all of them. Also you can actually disagree with majority of policy but prefer it to the alternative.

Hey, if you want to have a stats battle, Manitoba had the second highest death rate, second only to Quebec, during the second wave. And the third wave is starting. This was largely due to the lack of quick action in long term care facilities. A good portion of the unpopularity of the current government is due to its covid management. The vaccine centres have been a giant cock-up. But you appear to subscribe to the idea that nothing could have done. All those people who think the government has mishandled it are just delusional no doubt.
Another aspect of COVID is recovery and governments need resources to fuel that recovery. Manitoba is the only jurisdiction that is rapidly decreasing tax revenues while the deficit balloons. But your property tax rebate. People will like it because, hey, who doesn’t want a new big screen TV or a nice trip? In a time of crisis, and the ensuing recovery, I would rather have a government that has the resources to and help citizens when they are going to need it most.
On the environment, sure they have a plan, but it has little substance, identifiable targets, or timelines. Pallister is busy in Court fighting the carbon tax, even though the Supreme Court has okayed it, and even Erin O’Toole has seen the light. I guess I believe in holding government to a high standard.

[Komatiite]

Originally Posted by Ando

I guess I believe in holding government to a high standard.

...he says without the slightest hint of irony as he readies his ballot for the NDP, a party fronted by Mr. No-Kissing-Fat-Chicks-H1N1.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Komatiite

...he says without the slightest hint of irony as he readies his ballot for the NDP, a party fronted by Mr. No-Kissing-Fat-Chicks-H1N1.

Well I think your post speaks for itself. Thanks for this intelligent contribution.

[Ando]

PCs continue to self-implode in the polls, in particular on health and education issues. NDP now leads in Winnipeg 55-22.
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...574665132.html

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Ando

PCs continue to self-implode in the polls, in particular on health and education issues. NDP now leads in Winnipeg 55-22.
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...574665132.html

Must really be a lot of discontent when anyone would even entertain another speNDP regime!

Pallister has been bad and a change in leadership is needed as the MB Cons battle the Libs, speNDP and the government funded Winnipeg Free Press!

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Must really be a lot of discontent when anyone would even entertain another speNDP regime!

Pallister has been bad and a change in leadership is needed as the MB Cons battle the Libs, speNDP and the government funded Winnipeg Free Press!

I for one am exhausted with conservatives and the type of immature and petty attitude that seems to permeate through the party and the entire right wing at the moment. I know the Liberals and NDP have their moments as well, but the right wing seems to be at a whole new level of immature right now.

The talking point that the media is out to get them is so played out.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I for one am exhausted with conservatives and the type of immature and petty attitude that seems to permeate through the party and the entire right wing at the moment. I know the Liberals and NDP have their moments as well, but the right wing seems to be at a whole new level of immature right now.

The talking point that the media is out to get them is so played out.

Not all media, specifically the Free Press that has a continual hardon slamming the Cons and Pallister, don’t trust any funded media especially a paper that bows to the federal Liberal party.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Must really be a lot of discontent when anyone would even entertain another speNDP regime!

Pallister has been bad and a change in leadership is needed as the MB Cons battle the Libs, speNDP and the government funded Winnipeg Free Press!

Holy cow this reads like everyone's least favorite retired boomer uncle who didn't graduate high school and spent 30 years digging holes for Maple Leaf Construction, and now just discovered Facebook (10 years too late) and thought it would be important to share their political leanings in a public space even though no one asked or cares.

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

[bomberjet]

The media is biased against Conservatives? Should probably check again. Media in Canada is big time biased to the right.

I'd recommend everyone turn off the 6 o clock scare fests and get your news from other places. Even getting news from the same reporters elsewhere, such as Twitter, is a lot different than watching the 6 o clock shows.

[pspeid]

Bias happens. Consumers of the news media to take responsibility to question and try to understand what they are watching/reading. News media offers verifiable statements of fact (e.g. "there was a tornado yesterday"), repeat someone's statements ("so-and-so said this") and paraphrase people's feelings/opinions on issues, often all in the same "news item". We have pick through what is relevant information and what is just fluff.

IMO If one is looking for "truth", they should study philosophy or religion, otherwise we need to ingest our news with an objective eye. Of course, just dismissing all news as "fake" is just a lazy and petulant way of ignoring one's responsibility.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

Holy cow this reads like everyone's least favorite retired boomer uncle who didn't graduate high school and spent 30 years digging holes for Maple Leaf Construction, and now just discovered Facebook (10 years too late) and thought it would be important to share their political leanings in a public space even though no one asked or cares.

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

Kiss my ass!

Wow has this forum ever taken a nose dive to the left, no critical thought whatsoever just stick to the leftard playbook and keep the govt. benefits rolling in for the entitled generations!

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Kiss my ass!

Wow has this forum ever taken a nose dive to the left, no critical thought whatsoever just stick to the leftard playbook and keep the govt. benefits rolling in for the entitled generations!

You just proved his point.