Sports in Austin

[drummer]

I would say (and I'm sure it's been said) that the Domain isn't necessarily the best location for Austin proper, but it is most definitely the more central location for Austin metro, given how much growth is happening up north. That's not to say that growth isn't happening south - it most assuredly is - but it's not at the same rate as the growth to the north. Other than Butler Shores, there is no perfect location....I still wish that could have happened also! (...and that's not to say Butler wasn't without issue...but it was better than all the rest...so in the spirit of rounding up, I'll go with perfect!)

And that Pittsburgh field has always been a spectacular view...man, we could have had a soccer version of that, sort of.

[abigdeal]

Originally Posted by hookem

Epstein, developer push MLS stadium idea at COTA
https://www.statesman.com/sports/soc...HjiBeEOTuiZpK/

I feel like this pretty much confirms that COTA wasn't so much concerned about competition for a USL team there, but rather about the competition of another 20K music venue being built in town. The money they would lose not hosting 15-20K concerts at the 360 Ampitheater is much more important than the money they would gain by hosting 3K attendance USL games. I'm kind of conflicted about this because the concerts are probably by far the most profitable thing at COTA, and without out them (or with significantly less of them), I don't know if it would survive. Perhaps they can make an agreement that the McKalla stadium wouldn't be used for concerts (except maybe the small outside venue).

This is exactly correct. Looking forward to the day when I don’t have to slog all the way out to Elroy to see a show. Or skip one altogether because I don’t want to deal with the drive.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by abigdeal

This is exactly correct. Looking forward to the day when I don’t have to slog all the way out to Elroy to see a show. Or skip one altogether because I don’t want to deal with the drive.

Seriously. COTA sucks.

[aschwab]

Originally Posted by hookem

Epstein, developer push MLS stadium idea at COTA
https://www.statesman.com/sports/soc...HjiBeEOTuiZpK/

I feel like this pretty much confirms that COTA wasn't so much concerned about competition for a USL team there, but rather about the competition of another 20K music venue being built in town. The money they would lose not hosting 15-20K concerts at the 360 Ampitheater is much more important than the money they would gain by hosting 3K attendance USL games. I'm kind of conflicted about this because the concerts are probably by far the most profitable thing at COTA, and without out them (or with significantly less of them), I don't know if it would survive. Perhaps they can make an agreement that the McKalla stadium wouldn't be used for concerts (except maybe the small outside venue).

That is exactly the reason.

I also am curious how the neighborhood would like open air concerts in the Braker/Burnet area. Sound will travel far, and it could become an issue quickly.

I don't want COTA to fail, but they really should throw in the towel on USL and focus on making a deal with PSV about concerts.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by aschwab

That is exactly the reason.

I also am curious how the neighborhood would like open air concerts in the Braker/Burnet area. Sound will travel far, and it could become an issue quickly.

For the larger concerts (inside the stadium) the PSV proposal goes into how they'd be using directional speakers aimed to contain the sound inside (I imagine the shading structures would help some as well).

For the smaller stuff outside the stadium, that doc didn't go into as much detail.

However, the term sheet mentions that they'd work with ACE for sound permits as needed (so presumably there's an existing process, existing decibel limits, etc.)

http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=302612

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

Seriously. COTA sucks.

COTA doesn't suck. As a racing fan I love that we have have a truly world class track/venue like that in our backyard. But the management should realize racing is their niche and quit trying to influence the whole MLS process.

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by smith_atx

COTA doesn't suck. As a racing fan I love that we have have a truly world class track/venue like that in our backyard. But the management should realize racing is their niche and quit trying to influence the whole MLS process.

agreed. It is a very special place.....for racing. I don't even like going to concerts there.

[ClendonRoss]

Originally Posted by smith_atx

COTA doesn't suck. As a racing fan I love that we have have a truly world class track/venue like that in our backyard. But the management should realize racing is their niche and quit trying to influence the whole MLS process.

COTA sucks for concerts. It's great for racing. And I believe that the changes over the last few years to the F1 race weekend (adding the big name pop concerts to race weekend to draw in a totally different demographic than the race crowd) have solidified the finances of the track so that the potential loss of concert revenue won't be a death sentence.

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by ClendonRoss

COTA sucks for concerts. It's great for racing. And I believe that the changes over the last few years to the F1 race weekend (adding the big name pop concerts to race weekend to draw in a totally different demographic than the race crowd) have solidified the finances of the track so that the potential loss of concert revenue won't be a death sentence.

anyone know if F1 plans to renew? IIRC, it was a 10 year deal, which should be coming up in a few years. Was there an option to renew? Or will they start neg over again? If so, I predict a CLUSTERFUCK!

[ClendonRoss]

Originally Posted by Dcbrickley

anyone know if F1 plans to renew? IIRC, it was a 10 year deal, which should be coming up in a few years. Was there an option to renew? Or will they start neg over again? If so, I predict a CLUSTERFUCK!

This is year 7 of a 10-year deal. I think the chances of a new deal beyond the current one went up greatly when Bernie Ecclestone (notorious for squeezing track owners) sold F1 to Liberty Media (an American company that is trying to raise the profile of the sport in the US with even more US races and make it more fan-friendly to American audiences). But as with all things business, I'm sure it'll eventually come down to finances. We'll see if the model that Epstein now has in place is lucrative enough to support another deal. Strongly hoping that that is the case.

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by ClendonRoss

This is year 7 of a 10-year deal. I think the chances of a new deal beyond the current one went up greatly when Bernie Ecclestone (notorious for squeezing track owners) sold F1 to Liberty Media (an American company that is trying to raise the profile of the sport in the US and make it more fan-friendly to American audiences). But as with all things business, I'm sure it'll eventually come down to finances. We'll see if the model that Epstein now has in place is lucrative enough to support another deal. Strongly hoping that that is the case.

Yep agree. It's very much in both F1 and COTA interest to keep this going for a long time.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by ClendonRoss

This is year 7 of a 10-year deal. I think the chances of a new deal beyond the current one went up greatly when Bernie Ecclestone (notorious for squeezing track owners) sold F1 to Liberty Media (an American company that is trying to raise the profile of the sport in the US with even more US races and make it more fan-friendly to American audiences). But as with all things business, I'm sure it'll eventually come down to finances. We'll see if the model that Epstein now has in place is lucrative enough to support another deal. Strongly hoping that that is the case.

I agree. I got the impression reading some recent articles related to Miami, that they may be trying to negotiate a new deal now that would extend the existing term but reduce or at least stop the escalator on the hosting fee.

If the hosting fee came down, perhaps COTA could survive just on racing. But I think right now, they are very dependent on concerts and other non-racing events.

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by smith_atx

Yep agree. It's very much in both F1 and COTA interest to keep this going for a long time.

agreed, clearly. I wonder if the State will be asked to pitch in. Without that money initially, no way in the world we have F1 or COTA. It will be interesting, I can imagine they are on this now behind the scenes.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by We vs us

My good pals the Chicago Cubs lost a game to the Pittsburgh Pirates last evening in Pittsburgh, and as I was watching, I had a moment of clarity/grief regarding the Butler Shores proposal.



Virtually all of the MLS discussion grew out of the suspicion of sports as a business, but never really addressed sports as anything else. As cultural enrichment, or as community builder, or as architectural boon. Sports has the potential to do a lot of good things, but those good things were never any part of the discussion. In fact the talk was always about being hoodwinked (what untold Millions will PSV coerce us to give up without our knowledge?) or abandoned (how long till PSV leaves us, like it left Columbus?), never about how this is going to improve our city.

When I saw that view from PNC Park and how beautifully it showcases its city -- indeed, how much other buildings had to have been conscious of it when they were built -- it really pointed up how much a Butler Shores stadium would've beautified our city, and given it an iconic view. There're always problems to iron out with any site -- obviously traffic would've been probably the first of a few. But even with a mediocre stadium, that view alone would've been a defining Austin view, and would've been one of the first things a TV viewer would see of our city.

And a view is a view is a view, but it's one of the things that we didn't discuss. We talked a lot about the pros and cons (mostly cons) of losing our shoreline to a freeloading developer from out of town, but never about how a stadium could make it better.

Anyhow, McKalla Place is fine, and Austin needs a team, and it will be a good stadium, but we missed something monumental when we passed up Butler Shores . . . and have missed something monumental all along as we've been discussing it.

It would be awesome to see a MLB stadium on the Statesman site with a downtown view like this. It's not likely to happen, but one can hope.

[odelayjb]

Originally Posted by paul78701

It would be awesome to see a MLB stadium on the Statesman site with a downtown view like this. It's not likely to happen, but one can hope.

100% agreed. Perhaps in an alternate universe in which the Astros and Rangers aren't so darned close. Even though it's a long shot in this universe, I'm sort of glad the soccer stadium won't be taking up this prime real estate for that very reason.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by odelayjb

100% agreed. Perhaps in an alternate universe in which the Astros and Rangers aren't so darned close. Even though it's a long shot in this universe, I'm sort of glad the soccer stadium won't be taking up this prime real estate for that very reason.

Rest assured that the AAS site will be converted to space where people can live, work, eat, and shop. Lord knows there's no other place in Austin to do any of that.

[Geckos_Rule]

Originally Posted by odelayjb

100% agreed. Perhaps in an alternate universe in which the Astros and Rangers aren't so darned close. Even though it's a long shot in this universe, I'm sort of glad the soccer stadium won't be taking up this prime real estate for that very reason.

Yeah, I hate to say that if an MLB or NFL team came anywhere near Austin, the rational thing would be to build it on the northern outskirts of San Antonio, where it's only about an hour and 15 minutes away from Austin. That way you'd get the pull of both cities.

On the other hand, we're definitely done for with NBA since it's rockets, spurs, and mavericks.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule

Yeah, I hate to say that if an MLB or NFL team came anywhere near Austin, the rational thing would be to build it on the northern outskirts of San Antonio, where it's only about an hour and 15 minutes away from Austin. That way you'd get the pull of both cities.

On the other hand, we're definitely done for with NBA since it's rockets, spurs, and mavericks.

This is why PSV will lie down in front of a train to get into Austin. All the other Majors are tapped out/locked down in Texas. Austin won't ever land one of them. We will never get a football team, we will never get a basketball team, and we will never get a baseball team. Really ever. So MLS has the chance to get the full attention of Austinites, and that's more and more important as we get richer and richer.

Also why I personally was enthusiastic about Butler Shores. We're never going to put another kind of stadium there, so why not a soccer stadium?

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by We vs us

This is why PSV will lie down in front of a train to get into Austin. All the other Majors are tapped out/locked down in Texas. Austin won't ever land one of them. We will never get a football team, we will never get a basketball team, and we will never get a baseball team. Really ever. So MLS has the chance to get the full attention of Austinites, and that's more and more important as we get richer and richer.

Also why I personally was enthusiastic about Butler Shores. We're never going to put another kind of stadium there, so why not a soccer stadium?

Hockey could be a long shot (really long term), since there's only one Texas team.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by We vs us

This is why PSV will lie down in front of a train to get into Austin. All the other Majors are tapped out/locked down in Texas. Austin won't ever land one of them. We will never get a football team, we will never get a basketball team, and we will never get a baseball team. Really ever. So MLS has the chance to get the full attention of Austinites, and that's more and more important as we get richer and richer.

Also why I personally was enthusiastic about Butler Shores. We're never going to put another kind of stadium there, so why not a soccer stadium?

"Never" is an extremely dangerous word. No league will overlook a city of 4.5 million (roughly where Austin will be in 2040). Also, the Texas market will most certainly not be oversaturated by that time as well.