The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[SevenSquared]

I don't mind the idea in theory. It's not like Moncton's lacking in aquatic facilities for its residents. This allows both cities to focus on upgrading existing facilities that need investments in order to be used to their full potential.

As you said, swimming and diving events will obviously go to Saint John's aquatic centre. Track & field events I would guess go to UNBSJ with track upgrades.

Here locally, I would assume logically we would get soccer, and I would hope this means some desperately needed upgrades to Medavie Stadium.

This would be the perfect opportunity to eliminate the track & field surface entirely, get rid of the rapidly-aging turf soccer pitch, rebuild a much safer real grass pitch in front of the west stand on the CEPS side (where the track sits today).

Add a similar, modestly-sized stand in front of the pitch on the east side, and eliminating the awful giant east stand behind it, located so far from the field one needs binoculars. Use that space to add much-needed washrooms and concessions on that side.

This would be a giant step forward in bringing the stadium exactly where it needs to be, in terms of infrastructure, aesthetic and fan proximity, for a professional club in a few years... not to mention a much, much better experience when it's used as a concert venue.

[MonctonRad]

I would imagine track & field in Moncton. The stadium was after all built as a track & field facility for the IAAF World Junior Championships in Athletics.

I agree about getting rid of the infield turf. This will be necessary to conduct the field sports at the stadium. A natural turf infield would also be better in the long run for soccer as well.

If they can make improvements to the stands too that would be great, especially some concessions and some washroom facilities.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would imagine track & field in Moncton. The stadium was after all built as a track & field facility for the IAAF World Junior Championships in Athletics.

Yeah, that's actually why I felt SJ would get track and field; their stadium at UNBSJ was literally built for the Canada Games themselves and for track & field. They also put a ton of money into track upgrades back in 2009, so I'm sure they'll want to get use out of that.

Meanwhile Moncton's track is an albatross around the stadium's neck, preventing it from being tweaked into a viable full-time pro sports venue and revenue generator, despite it being pretty close to pro-ready on several levels.

Either way, looking forward to hearing the details of the bid once they're announced.

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sorry but I'm not clear. Are you saying there are not jobs for newly graduated RN's or that there is a shortage of spaces for student nurses to do clinical placements?

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm pretty sure he/she means a lack of student placements. This will be the third degree based nursing program in Moncton (UdeM, UNB-M and Oulton College).

I'm sure this situation can be addressed with some imagination. The lack of hospital based clinical instructors is the main issue. This will also be a HUGE issue with the new UPEI medical schools too. Charlottetown is a small city for a medical school, and, the QE2 Hospital has fewer staff and resources than any of the four big hospitals in NB (TMH, GDH, SJRH and Chalmers). It takes a lotta planning to get things right. You can't just wave a magic wand and "poof" automatically get a full fledged medical or nursing school.

A bit of both. NBCC also has the RN bridging for internationally educated nurses. Student placements are getting thin, and the exodus of senior experienced nurses have thinned out the preceptor pool.

Applicants for both student placements and actual job positions have started shifting towards nursing homes. Although I personally think the Moncton Hospital can stand to hire more people at least for the float pool/staff relief.

[Monctoncore]

I might be a bit dramatic right now.. but I have been apart of this for many years now and this might be the quietest it’s been on the Moncton side of things since I joined. I know there is lots going on in the city, but in regards to new announcements, especially this far into spring, it feels like January. We had all those big announcements, Icon and St.Bernards, but they seem to have gone dark since the drilling and the council meeting.


Are we seeing what Hennessy said and the NB Governments stubbornness in regard to the taxes, taking its toll on this cities developers. When you need to charge $1500- $2000 per unit, that’s usually a sign it’s becoming even to expensive for developers to build. My comment in regard to the government is to the CBC article that came out today about how NB is lagging behind NS and even PEI now in starts per 1000.

Clearly we know that the property tax is one issue, but also seeing that the sales tax on new apartment units seems to also be playing a role as well. I understand the view of the government that they don’t like to lose that income, but it seems to be helping in NS and PEI right now. I try not to get to deep in to the political back and forth because any criticism of any party tends to get met with anger, but it does feel like the Higgs government is just playing games… If it’s something that’s requested or passed by the federal liberals, Higgs is going to be against it and his party will tow the line. Sometimes we need to put petty politics behind us to try and help things become better for the people who live and make this province run. This last comment I have no evidence that it’s true, but it just feels that way. Either the property tax or the sales, one of them needs to go even if it’s the short term. The fact that Moncton has a property tax 2x higher than the national average, and more than that of Toronto.. that’s ridiculous and is a development killer.

[AGGUS]

So on one hand, you would think / hope that someone has done a study or 3 on "what if we lowered the taxes - what spin off builds would happen / more disposable income in the hands of locals would be spent here".

But on the other I would take the fact we've not seen results of a study to make me lean towards it not being done.

Might be an interesting project - I am sure some city, somewhere, or similar size lowered taxes to push growth they could use to see the ROI.

[MonctonRad]

I am concerned too.

I think projects are stalled, and this is because the math doesn’t work. Developers won’t build if there is no profit to be made.

Double tax, sales tax and high interest rates all add up and are project killers.

[AGGUS]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I am concerned too.

I think projects are stalled, and this is because the math doesn’t work. Developers won’t build if there is no profit to be made.

Double tax, sales tax and high interest rates all add up and are project killers.

Housing is needed, but you're right, the developers are running a business, not a charity, and you can be sure one thing they work out is how much they have to charge per unit to turn the profit they need. Pretty simple to compare to the market and see if they can even afford to build.

And that assumes they can get approval, funding and skilled workers to actually do the build.

How many projects are in limbo due to limited labor pool? The crews here can only build so many buildings at once, but while a developer is waiting for a build crew they have to pay taxes on the land, etc etc. Pair that with pricing on materials going up often and it would make someone very nervous to sink a bunch of money into a new build....

[Monctoncore]

I agree, I haven’t seen any studies, but from the CBC Article and just from Hennessy, it seems like developers are talking about it. You just have to look at this

“Here in New Brunswick, we have what we would call a unique property tax system. So if you’re in Moncton, your rate is 2.074. It’s 1.968 if you’re in Fredericton. 2.2 in Saint John. Dieppe is about 2.1. St. John’s, Newfoundland, is around 0.83. In Halifax, it’s 1.1. Toronto it’s 0.66. The national average is 0.9. Our property tax is double, and that’s a problem,” Hennessey says.

“Landlords collect property tax. A tenant paying $1,900 in rent is paying $515 a month in property tax. How does that stack up against the other cities? That $515, in Halifax, it’s $287, St. John’s $207 and Toronto is $226.”

With assessments skyrocketing in the Greater Moncton region, landlords are forced to increase rent to pay for property taxes.

Today all three chambers (Fredericton, Moncton and Saint John) all sign wanting the removal of either the double taxing or the sales tax on apartments.

[jonny golden]

Not to mention the cost of materials which has exploded over the last few years. All these increased costs means higher rents to make projects viable, and higher rents cuts into the disposable income for tenants. There's a spin-off effect that has a broader (negative) impact.

But if the government would do something about the taxation issue, the spin-off effect would be positive.

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

Clearly we know that the property tax is one issue, but also seeing that the sales tax on new apartment units seems to also be playing a role as well. I understand the view of the government that they don’t like to lose that income, but it seems to be helping in NS and PEI right now. I try not to get to deep in to the political back and forth because any criticism of any party tends to get met with anger, but it does feel like the Higgs government is just playing games… If it’s something that’s requested or passed by the federal liberals, Higgs is going to be against it and his party will tow the line. Sometimes we need to put petty politics behind us to try and help things become better for the people who live and make this province run.

I'd have reservations blaming the government if it's just a certain sector (housing), but NB is also lagging behind education and health throughout Canada, with no foreseeable concrete changes for the better. Nurses are still shortchanged when it comes to retention. Doctors are still waiting on an increase in pay. Both professions have already received significantly better benefits in other provinces in collaboration with the federal government.

It's great that they are paying off the provincial debts, but there is a middle ground in providing services to NBers without going overboard into deficit. Anyways just my 2 cents.

[new kid in town]

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I agree, I haven’t seen any studies, but from the CBC Article and just from Hennessy, it seems like developers are talking about it. You just have to look at this



Today all three chambers (Fredericton, Moncton and Saint John) all sign wanting the removal of either the double taxing or the sales tax on apartments.

Property tax on apartments in NS is half the cost of NB. Investors base decisions on long term net income. Paying double the tax quickly wipes out any profit. Due to its impact on net income, NB’s high property tax also has a very negative impact on the amount of a loan that can be sized for the project. So the developer in NB has to tie up much more capital in a project leaving less for more projects. If NB property tax was reduced to that of being equal to NS, wouldn’t the govt come out ahead after a few years when there are 2-3x more total buildings to tax even if that tax amount is half per building? This doesn’t factor in the tens of thousands of jobs (and taxes) related to the construction of these buildings, employing carpenters, engineers, bankers, electricians, plumbers, lawyers, accountants, suppliers, etc, etc. Reduce the property tax and watch the cranes go up! It is a no brainer.

[MonctonRad]

Agenda for the May 22nd meeting of the Moncton PAC committee.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC...May_22_mai.pdf

Supporting documents are available online.

Yet another very light agenda............

[Taeolas]

While it is bad to lose a construction season, I do wonder if developers may be (purposefully or just logically) waiting until the election this fall to see how things change up while they hold some power with how tight housing is.

All of the cities do have projects on going so it doesn't feel like things are slowing down too much yet, but the cities surely can tell there's a hiccup in the pipeline and will be reporting that to the Province with pressure to DO SOMETHING.

This might be a chance for the Liberals to stake their own position to try and improve the developer situation somehow too.

[Mud]

If they're not going to follow suit on the sales tax, one would think they could at least expedite their own elimination of the double tax. At least that way they could be seen as doing something on the housing front and have it be their "own idea".

I'm all for fiscal prudence but it won't do the PCs or the provincial coffers much good to let this issue become a Liberal battering ram in the looming election.

[Riberview]

The vacant lot at "316-326" Mountain Road, PID 06810877, sold in December 2023 for "$500."

There has been some activity on the site. Construction tarp in place on the perimeter..

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Riberview

The vacant lot at "316-326" Mountain Road, PID 06810877, sold in December 2023 for "$500."

There has been some activity on the site. Construction tarp in place on the perimeter..

That's a nice sized lot in a good location. Small apartment building maybe?

[MonctonRad]

Very interesting. $500 is a steal. Somebody obviously wanted to get rid of it (presumably for property tax reasons). So, you think construction may be imminent???

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting. $500 is a steal. Somebody obviously wanted to get rid of it (presumably for property tax reasons). So, you think construction may be imminent???

There is evidence of heavy equipment having been on site, though it is not there currently.

Property is zoned 'mixed use.' Is about 1/3 of an acre..
50meters of frontage. But is somewhat 'L' shaped.