Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[raisethehammer]

I agree.
Joe Mancinelli stated last week that they could get Lister done faster privately.
Let's see it big mouth. It's time to back up your big talk with some action (other than whining in your daily PR publication).

[fastcarsfreedom]

That really is ultimately the question...whether or not the private sector interest is there in redeveloping the site...given the difficulty they had in obtaining financing to do the Connaught project (which had a reasonably bankable business plan) I have my concerns regarding Lister...remediation/restoration is going to be extraordinarily complex and expensive--I frankly think it's going to take an "incentive" along the lines of the previous Provincial funding to make it workable--perhaps there is room for an institutional buyer to come in with some sort of government assistance--Mohawk College comes to mind. As long as there is a soft condo market and a sizeable amount of available commercial and retail space in the city, I just don't see anyone throwing their money into a project with obstacles that have yet to be uncovered--look at what it took just to get the Connaught stripped down to it's bones.

[markbarbera]

I would think the difficulty with private financing for Lister and (pre-Stinson) Connaught had little to do with the properties themselves and much to do with who held the properties. Essentially, prior to Stinson's purchase of Connaught, the projects were owned by the same group of people, who had little large-scale redevleopment experience and shakey business plans for their redevelopment. This woudl give pause to many potential investors.

There is significant value in both properties, and there is measurable demand for residential properties downtown. Should Lister transfer into the hands of an experienced developer with a realistic redevelopment plan, financing would definitely be forthcoming.

[raisethehammer]

I agree...LIUNA has done nothing other than try to get various levels of government to subsidize their developments.
they need to stick to building townhomes and sell off their prominent downtown properties.

[realcity]

I sincerely hope Liuna does something remarkable with Lister.

However I agree that the Connaught and Lister are new territory and much different then townhomes on farmland. What struck me as so negative and bitter was the comment that "LIUNA will halt ALL its current downtown deverlopment plans". As if to make the City look like the bad guys and sticks in the mud for downtown redevelopment. Halt all your development plans???? Like what? Is there another 'secret list' of companies waiting to locate downtown like they said would happen with the RedHill??? No what Liuna meant was they would continue as they have for the past 10 years. The residents of Hamilton have lost zero so far.

This gives me hope to see condos/residential units and retail in Lister.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by realcity

What struck me as so negative and bitter was the comment that "LIUNA will halt ALL its current downtown development plans".

In other words, they'd go back to just being a union?

[raisethehammer]

yea, I wondered about that too. What development plans??
This is probably a good thing. We don't need more buildings demolished downtown, which is likely all they were going to do.

[ryan_mcgreal]

http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog/1045

Breaking: LIUNA Accepts City Lister Offer

The office of Mayor Fred Eisenberger reports that Laborers International Union of North America (LIUNA) has accepted the city's offer to buy a restored Lister Building for office space and a guarantee that LIUNA will add a condo development as phase 2 of the redevelopment.

The deal was reached over last-minute negotiations between LIUNA Vice-President Joe Mancinelli, Hi-Rise Group president Warren Green, city corporate finance manager Joe Rinaldo and Mayor Eisenberger.

It's not yet clear what prompted LIUNA to change their minds about the city offer after vociferously rejecting it last week. They may have reconsidered the likelihood that the province will designate the building as a provincial heritage site in accordance with the recommendation of the Ontario Heritage Trust, recently released through a freedom of information request.

In any case, it will serve to break the impasse that has left the building empty and neglected for nearly a decade since LIUNA bought it in 1999.

The Lister Building was designated as a municipal heritage site in 1996, but council voted to approve a demolition request in 2006. Responding to an outcry by heritage advocates, an intervention by then-Culture Minister Caroline Di Cocco, LIUNA and the city agreed to strike an ad hoc committee to find a compromise solution.

After two years of turbulence and more than one impasse, the city and LIUNA finally cobbled together a deal to renovate the Lister into office space and sell it to the city for $25 million, plus another $7 million grant from the province.

That deal collapsed last week when the two sides could not agree on the terms for a condition bond to guarantee that LIUNA goes ahead with a phase 2 condo development.

[raisethehammer]

LIUNA says yes to Lister Block deal


oops, McGreal beat me to it! haha.

[raisethehammer]

I can guess what prompted them to change their minds: $25million in taxpayer dollars.

[markbarbera]

Just posted on thespec.com:

LIUNA says yes to Lister Block deal

June 30, 2008
By Nicole MacIntyre
The Hamilton Spectator

In a shocking last-minute move, the Laborers International Union of North America has signed the city’s $25-million deal to save the Lister Block.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said the developer returned the signed paperwork this morning, just hours before a $7 million grant from the province was set to expire.

“It’s alive. It’s very much alive,” he said today of a deal many thought was dead.

“I think it’s a very positive step. It’s good for city.”

LIUNA and partner Hi-Rise have agreed to council’s demand for a $1 million guarantee that there will be a second phase that generates at least $600,000 in taxes.

Just last week, LIUNA vice-president Joe Mancinelli said he wouldn’t agree to the condition. He criticized council’s “unfair negotiations posture.”

The developers had offered a lower guarantee, but it was rejected by council last Wednesday. After the meeting, LIUNA said it wouldn’t offer any guarantee at all.

"We've compromised enough," Mancinelli said at the time. “They killed the deal.”

He said they planned to look for a private deal.

Though the city’s deal is signed, the developers must still meet several conditions, such as a heritage plan.

Looks like Mr. Mancinelli's tough talk was all bark and no bite. In the end he did suck it up and sign on to the deal. I am sure LIUNA's pension managers were on the phone to him over the weekend, asking him why he was walking away from such a sweet deal when there were no other immediate prospects for a portfolio that has been stagnant for nearly a decade. His leadership on this item has been anything but stellar, and the general membership should have tough questions for him at their next GMM. Is this the beginning of the end for the Mancinelli family's run at LIUNA?

[SteelTown]

THANK GOD!

I was so pissed off that the agreement fell apart that I refused to comment in this section.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Finally sweet jesus finally.

Thomas building will be saved, a replica Balfour is good, another building will be repaired, condos will go ahead and the best part is that the Lister Block will be saved. THANK YOU!

[JT Jacobs]

Fantastic News!

[flar]

I'm actually happy about this despite the exorbitant cost to taxpayers. Things were looking pretty bleak for Lister the last few days, and that really hit home when the deal fell through. I really like the fact that the stone Thomas building will be saved and something will be built to replace Balfour. They shouldn't try to make it look like the Balfour building though, they can build whatever they want there as long as it fills in the gap in the streetwall nicely.

[matt602]

I think.. um, I'm happy. I don't know.

"Marge, what kind of ending is this anyway? Is it a good ending?"

"It's an ending."

...

Anyway, good luck to LIUNA and the City. I hope the restoration plans that are drawn up over the coming months will be good and include the Thomas building and the white brick building.

[raisethehammer]

I'm torn too.
It's good that the building will be saved, and after all, that's been the goal.
But tinted windows with office cubicles at street level and no retail arcade?? lousy.
empty office space after 5pm...lousy again.
seniors buildings nearby...not bad.

the actual development stinks, but I've got to force myself to be happy that the building will be saved. hopefully we can rescue the retail arcade in the future.

[matt602]

Well the bright side is that after all of this, the City will own the building and if further down the line they realize office space is not a good use, the building can be turned back into mixed use... so long as the interior isn't raped too hard. Drop ceilings and walls are easy to remove anyway...

[SteelTown]

It's $25 million to renovate the building. Another $4 million will be needed where the CITY will pay to re-configure the building into office space. I believe under the agreement the ground floor will be retail.

[SteelTown]

Now that the city and LIUNA has dotted the i and crossed the t here's some important dates to watch out for.....

By August 1, 2008 – LIUNA will provide the City with a design team consultant listing; LIUNA and the City will complete a Heritage Condition Survey and both parties are to reach agreement on the identity of the independent engineer.

By October 15, 2008 – LIUNA to submit to the City, the Heritage Conservation Strategy, the utility service design, site plan application, base building floor plans and detailed performance specifications.

By December 19, 2008 – the City will have reviewed and provided approvals for the various items that were required to be submitted to the City by October 15, 2008, listed previously.

By June 30, 2009 – LIUNA will have applied for and obtained valid Heritage and Building Permits.

July 2, 2009 – July 29, 2011 – Construction work to rehabilitate Lister Block takes place.

August 1, 2011 – March 31, 2012 – Tenant improvements are completed for final occupancy.

[matt602]

So what exactly is "restoration" then? Knocking everything down to the concrete and steel structural supports? Will the details of this be decided in the coming months?