Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[jammer139]

They have started delivering the huge concrete storm sewer segments for the south bound side of Wellington Rd. You can really see where the bulk of the BRT money is being spent and its not on buses. This project was always about replacing and upgrading the underground utilities along the routes.

[Djeffery]

That wasn't even a secret. It was always about how they can get the Feds and province to pay for sewers and new roads. It stopped being about rapid transit when they gave up on LRT or not running BRT up to where all the people are.

[CanadianTalk]

Here are some new renderings of the roads that will be reconstructed as part of the BRT projects next year.

Wellington Gateway - widening of Clark's Bridge over the Thames, as well as south to Grand Ave

East London Link - Dundas from Egerton to McCormicks, and Highbury from north of the rail overpass to Oxford Street

The city also included renderings of the remaining section of Dundas (from McCormicks to Highbury) and the remaining section of Highbury (from Dundas to north of the overpass) which will be constructed in a future phase.


Wellington Road/Street & Clark’s Bridge





East London Link

Dundas Street





(assuming that the left turn lane into the TVDSB office was mistakenly drawn as a bus lane)





Highbury Avenue







Oxford Street

[tyeman200]

Wasn't the East link supposed to go down Oxford all the way?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Wasn't the East link supposed to go down Oxford all the way?

No, just from Highbury to the college.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Wasn't the East link supposed to go down Oxford all the way?

I think that was the original plan but got changed.

[haljackey]

"Look mom, we're a big city now!"

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2270441539948

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by haljackey

"Look mom, we're a big city now!"

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2270441539948

I was very disappointed that London cheaped out and went BRT instead of LRT, but I have to say the city is growing up a lot with all the new towers, cranes in the sky and dedicated transit lanes. I think if the growth keeps up they will have to implement some higher order transit. It's getting difficult to drive around the city, almost as much fun as driving on the 401.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I was very disappointed that London cheaped out and went BRT instead of LRT, but I have to say the city is growing up a lot with all the new towers, cranes in the sky and dedicated transit lanes. I think if the growth keeps up they will have to implement some higher order transit. It's getting difficult to drive around the city, almost as much fun as driving on the 401.

Agreed, they will have to build something eventually. I’m of the opinion that the West and North BRT legs will never be built and instead emerge as an LRT project eventually.

[inimrepus]

As somebody that lives in the northwest end of the city, we desperately need better transit out here

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by inimrepus

As somebody that lives in the northwest end of the city, we desperately need better transit out here

Amen to that (Hyde Park resident here).

[ericmacm]

I live at Oxford and Wonderland currently, so many people live and travel through here and absolutely blows my mind that there are currently no active plans for Rapid Transit for this area.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Agreed, they will have to build something eventually. I’m of the opinion that the West and North BRT legs will never be built and instead emerge as an LRT project eventually.

I sure wouldn't bank on any LRT for at least 30 years. The public may support it but the downtown merchants and residents would fight it tooth and nail and one could hardly blame them.

First, they had to deal with ripping up Dundas for the flex street, then COVID hit which brought business to an abrupt stop and the city is still reeling from it's repercussions of sky high vacancy rates and homelessness, and currently are having to tolerate all the disruption from the Downtown Bus Loop and increased difficulty getting from the South & East to downtown due to the construction of the Eastlink and Gateway BRT.

Downtown London has had so many obstacles thrown at it in the last 6 years it's a wonder how any of the shops survived. Now that the Downtown Loop is finally coming to an end, they won't tolerate yet another construction hurdle to deal with.

Also, if they build LRT the cries of inequality would be deafening. The working class areas of the Wellington strip and Eastside with Fanshawe get a BRT while the tony North, West, and Western get LRT.

[Thesmallestbigtown]

Read the last two posts about LRT/BRT to the effect that (paraphrasing here) too much construction, we can't have anymore and that any N and W LRT would be inequitable.
Had to giggle. First of all, the construction is a con (as someone else pointed out here in an earlier post) it had little to do with making bus only lanes but was for infrastructure so BRT can't be blamed really. In fact the infrastructure construction may have been the point rather than raoud transit. After all after all the slicing and dicing and curb running busses, it's not really rapid trabsit anymore.
The equity argument is funny because one of the main and most Nimby reasons we have no BRT for the N and W is that the 'tony' residents of those areas didn't want transit to bring loads of poor people around to disrupt their neighbourhoods effectively keeping all that transit in the areas of town they never visit (S and E)
The whole debacle was a case of the very loud, well heeled and connected deciding that they'd keep their own spaces safe for SUVs only and impede any progress for the rif raff. If you cabt own an SUV you shouldn't be here.
Can't destroy the illusion that they live in a 1950s small town as the very biggest fish.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I sure wouldn't bank on any LRT for at least 30 years. The public may support it but the downtown merchants and residents would fight it tooth and nail and one could hardly blame them.

First, they had to deal with ripping up Dundas for the flex street, then COVID hit which brought business to an abrupt stop and the city is still reeling from it's repercussions of sky high vacancy rates and homelessness, and currently are having to tolerate all the disruption from the Downtown Bus Loop and increased difficulty getting from the South & East to downtown due to the construction of the Eastlink and Gateway BRT.

Downtown London has had so many obstacles thrown at it in the last 6 years it's a wonder how any of the shops survived. Now that the Downtown Loop is finally coming to an end, they won't tolerate yet another construction hurdle to deal with.

Also, if they build LRT the cries of inequality would be deafening. The working class areas of the Wellington strip and Eastside with Fanshawe get a BRT while the tony North, West, and Western get LRT.

Who says downtown would need to be a part of it? I think the entirety of Oxford St should have an LRT running right down the middle of it and they can optimize regular transit and BRT to run off of that spine. Second phase of LRT would be Masonville (or hell, Arva by then) to wherever in the south, running down Western and Wharncliffe. LRT in downtown was a stupid idea that distracted from the whole thing.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Who says downtown would need to be a part of it? I think the entirety of Oxford St should have an LRT running right down the middle of it and they can optimize regular transit and BRT to run off of that spine. Second phase of LRT would be Masonville (or hell, Arva by then) to wherever in the south, running down Western and Wharncliffe. LRT in downtown was a stupid idea that distracted from the whole thing.

I think running an median LRT all the way across Oxford makes a lot of sense. The road gets tight in some spots and there would have to be a lot of property expropriation to get it done properly, but I think it really is the best single direct corridor we have in the city for Rapid Transit in the city.

[haljackey]

Since the city 'technically' found a way to spend all the transit dollars allocated, I wouldn't expect any new projects to happen for some time.

Once the half-assed BRT starts operating they'll use its performance as a basis to expand the network. Obviously it is not going to be as useful as originally proposed, but its something.

I could see the east line easily extended to the airport, and a small southern extension over the 401 (Wellington overpass is wide enough) to have the it terminate at a node where you can get to a lot of the employers in the Wilton Grove area. Heck you might even be able to lug your Costco purchase to that stop... just hope there's an extra seat or two for your 100 pack of toilet paper and 18L laundry detergent lol.

Other than that, no new lines for a while. Once Queens bridge over the Thames needs a rehab, they could rough in the BRT lanes here and get buses to use them to Wharncliffe but that's really it.

West leg needs a dedicated bus lane route finalized (proposal had it operating in mixed traffic for a bit) and the north has heavy opposition. You'd need Western fully on board before you can even consider another north line proposal.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by haljackey

You'd need Western fully on board before you can even consider another north line proposal.

Not if you use Western Rd instead of Richmond and through campus.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I think that was the original plan but got changed.

Honestly that annoys me a lot.

Dundas Street is far worse, and to me makes absolutely no sense for BRT, unless you want to ride with the methheads.

So this city went and took a great idea, and basically scrapped 75% of it for a 1/4 assed plan.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Honestly that annoys me a lot.

Dundas Street is far worse, and to me makes absolutely no sense for BRT, unless you want to ride with the methheads.

So this city went and took a great idea, and basically scrapped 75% of it for a 1/4 assed plan.

It's King to the fairgrounds to Dundas to Highbury. I don't think Dundas will have any trouble handling it.