Federal Government & Politics II

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by whatnext

To portray Poilievre as some sort of Russian asset, a la Trump, is dishonest. He's too smart to ignore the large voting bloc of Ukrainian heritage in Canada.

He doesn’t need to be a Russian asset to help Putin. He just needs to be a populist partisan idiot mugging for the alt right base in AB. Undermining international coalitions to play to the oil and gas crowd in AB is disqualifying imo. Not surprised though.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by whatnext

He's too smart to ignore the large voting bloc of Ukrainian heritage in Canada.

Is that why he voted against a free trade deal with Ukraine? Because not helping Ukraine out is supposed to appeal to that voting bloc? He's somehow playing 5-D chess here?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I blame social media and youtube and the degradation of legacy news.

This view basically summarizes the problem with how Centrists view the rise of populism, extremism, and growing polarization in general: it's to blame social media and the subsequent platforming of fringe viewpoints that it enables (with the solution therefore being to censor those viewpoints).

What they're missing though is that these are fringes are symptoms rather than causes of deeper problems. The reason that more people are buying into them in the first place is fundamentally an outgrowth of the frustrations faced by the middle & working classes in the face of growing economic precarity and political disenfranchisement. As long as the political centre (both centre-left and centre-right) continues to ignore their concerns & material well-being, demagogues & radicals will fill the void instead. The fewer people for whom the status quo works, the more there are that want to burn it all down.

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Toronto was literally the lockdown capital of North America.

Wasn't that Montreal - the place where you couldn't go outside after 8PM or whatever for several months?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I blame social media and youtube and the degradation of legacy news.

How many legacy news sources do you pay for? I get the impression very few SSPers do, judging about can't being able to read articles behind paywalls when I post something from the Globe & Mail.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

What they're missing though is that these are fringes are symptoms rather than causes of deeper problems. The reason that more people are buying into them in the first place is fundamentally an outgrowth of the frustrations faced by the middle & working classes in the face of growing economic precarity and political disenfranchisement.

I think this is a factor but there are plenty of radicalized millionaires out there. Maybe he isn't on the fringe today but Justin Trudeau one of the most privileged establishment figures and holds some views that would have been uncommon a few years ago.

The world is changing in a bunch of ways, many of them not positive for us here in North America, and we have a lot of historical baggage and inertia. The dominant ideology with ties to the levers of power in Canada right now is basically progressive stuff from the 1960's and 70's, and the dominant day-to-day political theme is to do whatever wealthier people who came of age during that era want. I think this is part of why a lot of younger people feel the system doesn't work for them; it doesn't really. Promoting high real estate prices, taking on tons of government debt, and bringing in lots of labour does not serve the interests of younger workers, but it's great if you're a 65 year old property owner.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

To portray Poilievre as some sort of Russian asset, a la Trump, is dishonest. He's too smart to ignore the large voting bloc of Ukrainian heritage in Canada.

Did you read what I said? He's not an asset, he just picks the side they like, because he's a fucking moron.

Actually credit to the Libs for painting him into that corner.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Reeeefwwaaaaoooorrrrrmmmmm is still alive and well in the CPC:




https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-partisan-gain

Here's the e-mail the befuddled fool accidentally sent to Calgary Liberal MP George Chahal

Hopefully it's becoming clear to undecided centrist voters that a vote for the CPC is a vote for Danielle Smith and the UCP who are becoming increasingly intertwined with the federal conservatives.

Lol, “undecided centrist voters” aren’t going to decide the next election. The ~80% of voters who are “decidedly” fed up with JT’s policies, and want ABJT next time, will.

[1overcosc]

Voting against the trade deal with Ukraine was a dumb move, but I think the LPC is overplaying their hand in the criticism of it. Trudeau called it "abandoning Ukraine in its our of need" which is needlessly melodramatic. It's not like a trade deal with an increasingly meaningless country on the other side of the world from them is a make or break issue for Ukraine right now.

[1overcosc]

The CPC is gaining more from the old "working class left" than it is from the centrists at this point. PP has taken the old adage that "the CPC needs to appeal to the centre" and turned it on its head. It's an entirely different coalition than the one Harper built.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Voting against the trade deal with Ukraine was a dumb move, but I think the LPC is overplaying their hand in the criticism of it. Trudeau called it "abandoning Ukraine in its our of need" which is needlessly melodramatic. It's not like a trade deal with an increasingly meaningless country on the other side of the world from them is a make or break issue for Ukraine right now.

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but Ukraine is actively at war. Of course the vote passed anyway so Pierre looks dumb for nothing. The agreement doesn't force carbon tax on Ukraine either, it's much more nuanced than that. Way over the head of PP and his base though, of course.

Two really dumb moves in a row for PP, both showing he's either a liar or an idiot.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This view basically summarizes the problem with how Centrists view the rise of populism, extremism, and growing polarization in general: it's to blame social media and the subsequent platforming of fringe viewpoints that it enables (with the solution therefore being to censor those viewpoints).

What they're missing though is that these are fringes are symptoms rather than causes of deeper problems. The reason that more people are buying into them in the first place is fundamentally an outgrowth of the frustrations faced by the middle & working classes in the face of growing economic precarity and political disenfranchisement. As long as the political centre (both centre-left and centre-right) continues to ignore their concerns & material well-being, demagogues & radicals will fill the void instead. The fewer people for whom the status quo works, the more there are that want to burn it all down.

Maybe there is some level of that but ever since Reagan and the Fair Media Coverage doctrine things have devolved downward from talk radio and Rush Limblob. Many of the angriest "Fuck Trudeau" people are rich or well off. They have cottages and quads and boats. If anything I see an entitlement of those who got rich off oil and gas refusing to allow society to try and right the ship. As for cost of living etc. I'm a Millennial who has been shafted by the Boomers when it comes to housing. I'm not throwing away all critical thinking, however, and believing any alt right con man will change that situation.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Lol, “undecided centrist voters” aren’t going to decide the next election. The ~80% of voters who are “decidedly” fed up with JT’s policies, and want ABJT next time, will.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to lessen the sting of supporting the religious, petroleum beholden party of Western grievance ruled by a man with a french name who can't speak french and steered by Preston Manning and Danielle Smith.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lio45

Lol, “undecided centrist voters” aren’t going to decide the next election. The ~80% of voters who are “decidedly” fed up with JT’s policies, and want ABJT next time, will.

While I agree that most people are now tired of JT and want to see him gone. I think most Canadians are generally happy with the Liberal party polices. What specific polices are the problem ones.

Student immigration should be restricted. That will come with a Liberal or non-Liberal government. What else is there? Not much.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by casper

While I agree that most people are now tired of JT and want to see him gone. I think most Canadians are generally happy with the Liberal party polices. What specific polices are the problem ones.

Student immigration should be restricted. That will come with a Liberal or non-Liberal government. What else is there? Not much.

Are you kidding me? Of course people are sick of JT but it goes way beyond him and gets to the root of many Liberal policies.

From our housing crisis, homelessness, upwards of 2 million Canadians using the Food Banks every month, 1.1 million foreigners landing on our shores with no where to live and taking Canadian jobs and suppressing wages, soaring federal debt with not even a plan to bring about a balanced budget, our collapsing healthcare system, our horrid foreign and defense policy, opioid and drug abuse crisis, inadequate mental health resources, declining per-capita GDP with the decline in standard of living that goes with it, a climate change agenda that has never once met its targets and won't anytime soon, to a youth that has simply given up on their future..........Trudeau couldn't have done worse if he tried.

It is for these reasons that if the Liberal brass forces Trudeau out, the replacement cannot be anyone within his inner circle or potentially even a current MP. The Liberals tied their brand to Trudeau and it got them elected but now that his name is in the gutter, he is also bringing down the entire Liberal brand with him. Only a very clear and distinct breakage from the Trudeau Administration will give the party even a remote chance in the next election.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Whatever you need to tell yourself to lessen the sting of supporting the religious, petroleum beholden party of Western grievance ruled by a man with a french name who can't speak french and steered by Preston Manning and Danielle Smith.

I thought PeePee can speak French?

Crazy that 338canada.com currently has the CPC at >99% chance of winning the most seats, and >97% chance of winning a majority.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's not like a trade deal with an increasingly meaningless country on the other side of the world from them is a make or break issue for Ukraine right now.

Also the bill passed and the Conservatives know how many seats they have. So it's a debate about the hypothetical reasoning behind immaterial dissenting votes on a minor trade bill.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I thought PeePee can speak French?

Crazy that 338canada.com currently has the CPC at >99% chance of winning the most seats, and >97% chance of winning a majority.

PP speaks it very well or at least according to Gerry Butts, you know, that guy who got Trudeau his majority and McGinty his in Ontario. I have read that what all the pollsters are noticing since July is the cohort that got off the couch in 2015 to Fire Harper have decided Trudeau's time is up. Its baked in and just a matter of time. That bunch amounts to about 6% of the voting public that usually let things ride . Until they don't and they are done with Trudeau. The Carbon tax increase here in Atlantic Canada fried the Liberals here.We have been in a mini recession since July.

[bolognium]

Am I the only one getting tired of coming to this thread only to read crap like "PeePee is a racist this and that" and "Trudumb is a virtue-signalling such and such"??? Are you guys twelve? Because you're certainly not acting like married, educated, middle-aged people with fucking families and shit. You're not changing minds with your stupid G-rated insults. You're not convincing anyone you or your side is worth listening to.

I'm just tired of people using any opportunity to crap on Poilievre or Trudeau in this thread, throwing around elementary school insults and tantrums. Instead of just picking a side and shitting on the opposition, can we rein this thread in a bit before it completely devolves into Facebook comments section quality posts? I feel like we can all agree that our options for our future PM are bleak. I'm not excited to vote for either of these people. Neither of them have me feeling optimistic about my future, or our country's future.

I'm basically sitting in the "anyone but Trudeau" camp right now, but I am open to changing my mind. In fact, I want to change how I feel. I don't want to vote for PP. I value authenticity and character, and PP is completely lacking in both. I'm certainly not convinced he will do well running our country. He is the definition of a wet sandwich, but when it comes down to it my vote won't be in support of Poilievre, as much as it will be a vote against Trudeau.

I normally ride the centre-left, but Trudeau and the Liberals have me feeling just absolutely disenchanted.

For the first time in my life I'm strongly considering voting Conservative, and it's literally going to be a vote for a guy I don't even like.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by casper

While I agree that most people are now tired of JT and want to see him gone. I think most Canadians are generally happy with the Liberal party polices. What specific polices are the problem ones.

Huh?

Originally Posted by casper

Student immigration should be restricted. That will come with a Liberal or non-Liberal government. What else is there? Not much.

What?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by casper

While I agree that most people are now tired of JT and want to see him gone. I think most Canadians are generally happy with the Liberal party polices. What specific polices are the problem ones.

Student immigration should be restricted. That will come with a Liberal or non-Liberal government. What else is there? Not much.

This is a strange take. There's more than just student immigration driving dissatisfaction with this government. We may not agree with most Canadians on this, but like it or not, the government has done a poor job explaining that carbon pricing doesn't really drive up inflation much. It doesn't help that their immigration policy is highly inflationary. And a lot of their spending has been highly inflationary too. Especially, the part that goes to seniors in Canada (who are broadly among the wealthier classes now).

But the immigration is not a small matter. It is this student immigration that has destroyed housing affordability across the country. We now have big city housing affordability issues in small towns. And the government has shown zero interest in cutting back student immigration. Next summer is going to be even worse as more students come in and more houses are converted to house students. Any cuts to student immigration would have to be made right now. But the government isn't doing that.

Finally, it's a bit strange to believe the LPC will solve the very problem they created. Student immigration wasn't a problem under the CPC. This government created the problem. And did so without even a real mandate to increase immigration this much. Nobody should be surprised that voters are upset about this.