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  #981  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post

Vancouver BC has more in common with seattle and portland than anywhere else on the continent.
This statement is so laughable. Any Vancouverite with a modicum of experience of the rest of Canada knows Vancouver has much, much more fundamentally in common culturally with any fellow Anglo-Canadian city than it does with Seattle or Portland.

Despite some cultural similarities which come from sharing the same Pacific Northwest geography, climate, natural setting and aboriginal history (i.e., architecture, clothing, outdoor lifestyle, West Coast native art, resource industries, Left Coast environmentalism, etc.), Vancouver is as culturally different from Seattle and Portland as Canada is from the United States.

The similarities that Vancouver share with Seattle and Portland are largely superficial. Therefore, when you travel to Seattle or Portland, despite the similarities, you clearly feel you are in a different country.

Last edited by Prometheus; Feb 4, 2014 at 10:34 PM.
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  #982  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:41 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Canadian basketball? Meh.
You realize that basketball was a thriving sport in parts of Canada even before the NBA arrived in Toronto? 6000 Haligonians turn up for AUS conference finals (that's university basketball) every year and its been like that for decades. They don't care one iota that it's not NBA. They support it because its part of the culture and the sport has deep roots there.

The idea that we should only support things where Canada is a gold medal contender it just bizarre. People support things because they're culturally important to them. It's the casual fan that only tunes in when we win.
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Last edited by isaidso; Feb 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM.
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  #983  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by middeljohn View Post
Canada hasn't sent a mens basketball team to the Olympics since 2000. Maybe we'll qualify again in 2016.
Not qualifying for the World Cup was a huge disappointment. I'd be shocked if we keep failing to qualify for the big tournaments. There's too much talent in Canada these days for us to remain a non-factor.

I'm confident that Canada will win a world championship or Olympic gold in my life time. If Argentina and Spain can do it, we surely can. Besides, it's about time we brought a basketball title back to Canada... where it belongs.
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  #984  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
This statement is so laughable. Any Vancouverite with a modicum of experience with the rest of Canada knows this to be false.

Despite some cultural similarities which come from sharing the same Pacific Northwest geography, climate, natural setting and aboriginal history (i.e., architecture, clothing, outdoor lifestyle, West Coast native art, resource industries, Left Coast environmentalism, etc.), Vancouver is no less culturally different from Seattle and Portland than Canada is from the United States.

The similarities that Vancouver share with Seattle and Portland are obvious, but they are also largely superficial. Therefore, despite the obvious similarities, when you travel to Seattle or Portland, you clearly feel you are in a different country.

Vancouver has much, much more fundamentally in common culturally with Toronto (or any fellow Canadian city), than it does with Seattle or Portland.
Having a few beers and having some fun cheering on the team from across the border is perfectly fine, but beyond that... Vancouver doesn't (or shouldn't ) need to piggyback on anyone else's identity. It's a good city in its own right with its own personality that's part of good province and a good country.

As I said - no piggybacking necessary!
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  #985  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
You realize that basketball was a thriving sport in parts of Canada even before the NBA arrived in Toronto? 6000 Haligonians turn up for AUS conference finals (that's university basketball) every year and its been like that for decades. They don't care one iota that it's not NBA. They support it because its part of the culture and the sport has deep roots there.

The idea that we should only support things where Canada is a gold medal contender it just bizarre. People support things because they're culturally important to them. It's the casual fan that only tunes in when we win.
I think Rousseau would like being in Canada more if it wasn't so damn Canadian!
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  #986  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 9:46 PM
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Tonight the Ice Caps play their first home game since announcing they're leaving St. John's. We'll see how people react. The players are expecting the support to be fine, based on what their friends/neighbours here are saying.

Also, if they win, it'll be a franchise record winning streak.
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  #987  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
This statement is so laughable. Any Vancouverite with a modicum of experience of the rest of Canada knows Vancouver has much, much more fundamentally in common culturally with any fellow Anglo-Canadian city than it does with Seattle or Portland.

Despite some cultural similarities which come from sharing the same Pacific Northwest geography, climate, natural setting and aboriginal history (i.e., architecture, clothing, outdoor lifestyle, West Coast native art, resource industries, Left Coast environmentalism, etc.), Vancouver is as culturally different from Seattle and Portland as Canada is from the United States.

The similarities that Vancouver share with Seattle and Portland are largely superficial. Therefore, when you travel to Seattle or Portland, despite the similarities, you clearly feel you are in a different country.

No different from seattle than Canada is from the US?

Thanks buddy, that basically just says Vancouver is 95% the same as seattle.

I seriously don't understand why Canada is a separate country. I've been to Toronto and Calgary, Vancouver has barely ANYTHING in common with those cities.

Been to seattle, people were the same as vancouver and it had an extremely similar culture to here.

Look up the Cascadia Movement to see where I'm coming from.
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  #988  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Uhh no. How long have you been watching basketball? Finishing fourth in the 76 Olympics (when Yugoslavia and the USSR had full stacked teams), winning Universiade in Edmonton over Barkley, Malone et al and then beating Yugoslavia (Dražen Petrović) in the final and maybe even the Nash Olympic run overshadow anything the Raptors have ever done. I miss the Jack Donohue days. sigh...
The Universiade story sounds interesting. I've heard of the tournament and the victory in Edmonton but have never seen anything in detail about it (and I turned 2 in 1983, so I obviously remember nothing!). Speaking of Petrović, have you seen the 30 for 30 about him and Divac? It's very good. Heartbreaking, but good.

I think the thing that we're going to see in the next decade with Canada Basketball is a situation where it's not considered out of the ordinary for them to go far in large tournaments, including World Championships and Olympics. Past successes were few and far between but looking at the young players coming up right now, it's not difficult to envision a 9-10 man lineup of championship-calibre talent. Obviously the USA will remain the dominant team, but there's no reason that Canada can't have a team as good as, say, Spain or Argentina.

If things pan out, in three years time this lineup could take on nearly anyone:

PG - Ennis, Pangos, Kabongo
SG - Wiggins, Rautins
SF - Stauskas, K Joseph
PF/C - Thompson, Nicholson, Anthony, Bennett
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  #989  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 1:22 AM
Allan83 Allan83 is offline
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Originally Posted by P Unit View Post
The Universiade story sounds interesting. I've heard of the tournament and the victory in Edmonton but have never seen anything in detail about it (and I turned 2 in 1983, so I obviously remember nothing!). Speaking of Petrović, have you seen the 30 for 30 about him and Divac? It's very good. Heartbreaking, but good.

I think the thing that we're going to see in the next decade with Canada Basketball is a situation where it's not considered out of the ordinary for them to go far in large tournaments, including World Championships and Olympics. Past successes were few and far between but looking at the young players coming up right now, it's not difficult to envision a 9-10 man lineup of championship-calibre talent. Obviously the USA will remain the dominant team, but there's no reason that Canada can't have a team as good as, say, Spain or Argentina.

If things pan out, in three years time this lineup could take on nearly anyone:

PG - Ennis, Pangos, Kabongo
SG - Wiggins, Rautins
SF - Stauskas, K Joseph
PF/C - Thompson, Nicholson, Anthony, Bennett
I don’t know about that lineup. What is that anyway? It almost looks like a team Ontario lineup, but Joseph is from Montreal. There are so many good prospects that it’s hard to tell what our national team will look like. Who will the PFs be? Olynyk, Lyles, Thompson? Olynyk could also play some C, but Jordan Bachynski is a good prospect as well. I’d like to see Carl English make the team as well, even if he’s only coming off the bench as a shooter. Lots of good PG prospects too. It’s very hard to say what the team is going to look like in a few years.
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  #990  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 1:36 AM
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Fair enough, I didn't spend a whole lot of time putting that together. I think the fact that you're able to rebut the suggestions with a slew of other names says a lot about the future of the team though.
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  #991  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
No different from seattle than Canada is from the US?

Thanks buddy, that basically just says Vancouver is 95% the same as seattle.

I seriously don't understand why Canada is a separate country. I've been to Toronto and Calgary, Vancouver has barely ANYTHING in common with those cities.

Been to seattle, people were the same as vancouver and it had an extremely similar culture to here.

Look up the Cascadia Movement to see where I'm coming from.
As I said: totally laughable. Thanks for the laugh.
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  #992  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 5:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
As I said: totally laughable. Thanks for the laugh.
I'm still waiting for Canada to finally be assimilated into the US.

Canada has NO RIGHT being a different country. Never did.
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  #993  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 5:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
I'm still waiting for Canada to finally be assimilated into the US.

Canada has NO RIGHT being a different country. Never did.
I would love to hear your reasoning for that statement!
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  #994  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 6:54 AM
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That is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard. Why would you ever want Canada to just be a part of the USA. And how does Canada not have a right to be a country. Honestly this might even be funnier than that guy in some thread in the Canadian section that said he hates coniferous trees cause it makes him think that he lives in some northern wasteland.
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  #995  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
I'm still waiting for Canada to finally be assimilated into the US.

Canada has NO RIGHT being a different country. Never did.
Did you read "Merger of the Century" by that nutjob Diane Francis?
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  #996  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 2:39 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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On the contrary I would take Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, and maybe Washington State and Oregon to merge into Canada. The rest can stay away.
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  #997  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Antigonish View Post
On the contrary I would take Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, and maybe Washington State and Oregon to merge into Canada. The rest can stay away.
Minnesota's cool too. I'd let them in.
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  #998  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 2:51 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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Minnesota's cool too. I'd let them in.
They love hockey there, are they a big gun-toting state?
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  #999  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Antigonish View Post
On the contrary I would take Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, and maybe Washington State and Oregon to merge into Canada. The rest can stay away.
I would let in everything north of 46th parallel. The governor of Montana has approach the SK gov several times regarding using a Canadian health care model in his state.
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  #1000  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 2:24 AM
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Great Canadian Sporting Moment

Excellent writeup on the 1983 Canadian Men's Basketball "Meh" Team, good pictures too. Man, I could have wrote this, my memories exactly and very little info on the web aside from this - elly

Canada’s Greatest Basketball Moment
robvogt80s.blogspot.ca 27 April 2013

Long before Steve Nash, and Jamal Magloire, and all those other Canadians who played in the NBA, and long before the NBA returned to Canada in 1995 with the Toronto Raptors and the Vancouver Grizzlies, there was a group of relatively unknown Canadians who shocked the basketball world.

Shocking the world

The year was 1983, and the setting was the World University Games in Edmonton, Alberta. The Canadian men's basketball team was assembled from a group of college players, mostly from Canadian schools, but also a few American NCAA schools. At the time, the University of Victoria Vikings ruled men's basketball, and they were well-represented at the Universiade.

The team was coached by Jack Donohue, who had more success with the Canadian national team in international play than any other coach. He took them to fourth place finishes in the 1976 and 1984 Olympic Games. No one knows what could have happened in 1980, but Canada chose to boycott the games that year, held in Moscow, over the Soviet Union's aggression in Afghanistan. He also coached Lew Alcindor in high school. Alcindor would go on to become Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, one of the greatest college and professional players in history.

There is not a lot of information readily available on the 1983 World University Games tournament. We pick up the story after Canada managed to make it all the way to the semi-finals.

Awaiting them were the heavily-favoured and star-studded team from the United States. According to USA Basketball, the Americans had captured four straight gold medals and were loaded with talent. The team featured Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Johnny Dawkins, Ed Pinckney, and Kevin Willis. They cruised to the semi-finals with five straight wins, including a 156-75 win over Lebanon. In fact, the Americans hit or surpassed 100 points in each of their first four games. Their first test came against Cuba, but the U.S. still won by 15. This team averaged 112.7 points and had six players average in double figures.

Back in those days, unfortunately, it was before TSN or Sportsnet, so there was no wall-to-wall sports coverage. We missed the game that shocked the world (Edit: I'm pretty sure I saw it on CBC - elly). In front of 10,000 fans at the Butterdome in Edmonton, Canada defeated that world powerhouse the United States of America. It was not even that close, as Canada won by a score of 85-77, connecting on 29 of 40 free throws.

The win put them in the gold medal game against Yugoslavia, who was led by future NBA star Drazen Petrovic. By then, the Canadian team had drawn some attention. The game was broadcast on CBC, and I stayed up relatively late to watch it. So, on the campus of the University of Alberta, on a warm Saturday night, a group led by players with names such as Pasquale, Triano, Wiltjer, Kazanowski, and Tilleman, Team Canada claimed gold by defeating Yugoslavia, by a score of 83-68.

Relative obscurity

It is a crime that so few people know about this team, and their tremendous achievement. There is no information readily available on the Internet, and barely a mention from Basketball Canada. This team won a major international tournament, unlike any other Canadian men's team. It is true many of the players from this team would take fourth the next year at the Olympics, and that team has been inducted into the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame. Yet, this team won, and no one knows it. They were loaded with talent as well, and virtually all the top players were drafted by NBA teams.

Consider this:

Eli Pasquale – Drafted in the fifth round of the 1984 NBA draft by the Seattle Super Sonics, and played professionally in Argentina and Europe.

Jay Triano – Drafted in the eighth round of the 1981 NBA draft by the Los Angeles Lakers, and played professionally in Mexico and Turkey. He went on to coach the Toronto Raptors, and is in his second stint as head coach of the Canadian national team.

Greg Wiltjer – Drafted in the second round of the 1984 NBA draft by the Chicago Bulls, playing professionally for 12 seasons in Italy, Spain, and Greece. His son Kyle currently plays for the Kentucky Wildcats.

Gerald Kazanowski – Drafted in the seventh round of the 1983 NBA draft by the Utah Jazz, and played professionally for teams all over Europe including Spain, and Argentina and Mexico.

Karl Tilleman – Drafted in the fourth round of the 1984 NBA draft by the Denver Nuggets.

Danny Meagher – Drafted in the sixth round of the 1985 NBA draft by the Chicago Bulls, playing professionally overseas for eight years in Europe.

Bill Wennington – Drafted in the first round of the 1985 NBA draft by the Dallas Mavericks, and would go on to win three NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls.

Howard Kelsey – Played professionally in Mexico, and now is heavily involved in Basketball Canada.

Tony Simms – Drafted in the sixth round of the 1983 NBA draft by the New York Knicks.

As much talent as the Americans had, that was not on the team, Canada had had two first-round picks who could have played for them as well: Leo Rautins and Stewart Granger.

Parting thoughts

It's funny how things can stick with you. I remember this team so well, and it has been 30 years since they won that gold medal. I remember the way Pasquale controlled the tempo of the game, and how Kazanowski dominated the boards. He wore this big bandage on his chin from a cut he suffered in a previous game. He also had this uncanny ability to find the open man, especially with the baseball pass. The announcers even said he had become proficient at it at UVic where he often connected with his brother. Wiltjer was another great post player, and Triano was the perfect complement to Pasquale in the back court. Tilleman was the one I knew best from his time at the University of Calgary. He was just a deadly outside shooter. As I watched that gold medal game, I hoped so bad he would play, and he did, but not that much. He was a guard too, and it was difficult to displace Pasquale and Triano.

Recently I just realized something as well. Four short years after the Canadians won gold, I was playing basketball on that same court when I attended the University of Alberta. A year after that, I was even playing ball wearing a UVic sweater, a gift from my sister who went there in 1988.

Anyway, maybe some day the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame will see how important this team really was and induct them. After all, they are some of the few Canadians who can call themselves champions. They provided Canada's greatest basketball moment – ever.
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