Canadian Airport Thread II

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

This represents 8% of their flights.
Hopefully they stock around too.

Meh. I'd rather airlines that can reliably operate a safe business for the long term stick around

Found this article on Flair's backer, 777 Partners....

777’s CFO resigns with Everton bid pending
Feb 16, 2024, 7:04am PST
BUSINESS

The chief financial officer of 777 Partners, the cash-strapped investment firm trying to salvage its high-profile deal for the Everton soccer club, has resigned, people familiar with the matter said.

Damien Alfalla joined 777 two years after it launched in 2015 and helped keep its cash-burning, dealmaking operation afloat. In recent months, 777 had been unable to produce audited financial reports, missing payroll, and borrowing heavily from its deal partners, Semafor has reported.

An internal memo, sent yesterday by 777’s managing partners, said Alfalla would be replaced by Brett Kaufman, who had been running his own CFO outsourcing and consulting firm, according to his LinkedIn profile.

It comes as 777, which amassed a global portfolio of sports teams, insurance operations, airlines, and other businesses, is trying to pull off its splashiest deal yet. In September, it agreed to buy Everton, the venerable Premier League club that has been losing money at a clip. It’s been waiting for league approval and, in the meantime, floating the team with tens of millions of dollars of loans....

....The four months I’ve spent digging into 777 show an organization operating right at, and occasionally, beyond the limits of normal corporate finance. Requests for funds are ignored until portfolio companies are on the brink of insolvency. Creditors have seized assets, citing unpaid bills.

Fresh scrutiny from Bermudan authorities has reportedly cut off access to hundreds of millions of dollars sitting inside 777’s insurance operations on the island. In one instance, the firm failed to fund employees’ pension contributions — a serious error that suggests bad internal processes, a desperate need for cash, or both.

All of which is to say that Alfalla, working the till, has had a tough job. His replacement by an outsider could complicate 777’s ability to keep its money machine spinning..

https://www.semafor.com/article/02/1...on-bid-pending

[Alexcaban]

Avianca is starting SAL-YUL 3 weekly June 1st, A320

https://dinero.com.sv/es/vacaciones/...montreal.html/

[thenoflyzone]

^ this is one of the routes I was hinting at previously. Which is why I thought AV would announce SAL ahead of BOG.

But it’s ok. We’ll gladly take both !

[SimpleEng]

Hi,

Just curious if anyone knows why Porter picked EWR for their New York City flights as opposed to JFK or LGA?

Wouldn't JFK be a better choice given the following?

• JFK is a JetBlue hub, an existing Porter partner
• JFK is a better option for the majority of folks visiting NYC. Taxis from JFK to Manhattan are about half the price as EWR due to high tolls to get between NJ and NYC. JFK is also closer to Manhattan and has a subway stop via the AirTrain
• American and Delta have hubs in JFK setting Porter up nicely for future partnership with either

I assume the decision is cost related? Slots more expensive or not available at JFK?

Thanks

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by SimpleEng

Hi,

Just curious if anyone knows why Porter picked EWR for their New York City flights as opposed to JFK or LGA?

Wouldn't JFK be a better choice given the following?

• JFK is a JetBlue hub, an existing Porter partner
• JFK is a better option for the majority of folks visiting NYC. Taxis from JFK to Manhattan are about half the price as EWR due to high tolls to get between NJ and NYC. JFK is also closer to Manhattan and has a subway stop via the AirTrain
• American and Delta have hubs in JFK setting Porter up nicely for future partnership with either

I assume the decision is cost related? Slots more expensive or not available at JFK?

Thanks

Slots is part of the answer why they chose EWR, that's for sure.

JFK is a level 3 slot controlled airport. EWR isn't. It's only a level 2. So easier access at EWR.

But there are other factors.

YTZ-EWR is a shorter flight, or at least should be. Flying all the way to JFK can add a hundred miles to your flight distance on some days. Simply go on FR24 and look at all the arrivals into JFK, especially those arriving from the west. They pass JFK and go over the ocean and then come back around to land. Very very inefficient, but a necessity, due to the proximity of EWR and LGA, two other very busy airports.

So all else being equal, If you're coming from the west, flying to EWR usually cuts down on cost, and improves yield significantly compared to flying to JFK.

This being said, you can get vectored around significantly at EWR as well. That's why the schedules in/out of the NY3 airports are well padded. AC's block times on YYZ-EWR are actually higher than YYZ-JFK. Go figure.

As for lack of partners at EWR, you have to remember than YTZ-New York for PD is all about O&D and Canadian connections. They don't need connections on the NY end. So flying to JFK from YTZ is not important at all. EWR gets the job done.

And I've commuted from both EWR and JFK to Manhattan. EWR is just as convenient as JFK, to be honest. I don't remember thinking "JFK was so much easier". You take the Airtrain to the airport station and then NJ transit gets you to Penn Station in no time.

And btw, EWR is just as close to Manhattan as JFK. Both of them are around 16-17 miles from Manhattan. Since commuting from EWR involves a train, and not the subway, it's actually faster to get to Manhattan than via JFK.

[RomanR27]

If they partner with DL or AA I'd love to see them move to LGA. Once YTZ gets preclearance, I'd also like to see a move to DCA from IAD (easier said than done, I'm sure).

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

If they partner with DL or AA I'd love to see them move to LGA. Once YTZ gets preclearance, I'd also like to see a move to DCA from IAD (easier said than done, I'm sure).

LGA and DCA are the only 2 other slot controlled airports in the US, besides JFK.

Will be very hard for PD to get slots at either.

And btw, speaking of level 3 slot controlled airports, I noticed that as of the W24 season, YTZ will be a level 3 airport as well, alongside YYZ and YVR.

https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4...nnex-12.7.xlsx

[RomanR27]

If they do end up partnering with AA, would both LGA and DCA being AA hubs help enable that? I guess given the sheer number of EWR flights Porter has, there's no way they could completely shift their NYC ops to LGA anyways.

[Justanothermember]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it's going on 24 hours now that Flair's online booking system has been down due to 'service interruption' whatever that means. I get the sense this isn't about maintenance. Flair has no mention of this on any of their social media pages, where you would think they'd alert their customers to any technical issues. But no, just radio silence. Is this the calm before the storm?

Something seems afoot.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it's going on 24 hours now that Flair's online booking system has been down due to 'service interruption' whatever that means. I get the sense this isn't about maintenance. Flair has no mention of this on any of their social media pages, where you would think they'd alert their customers to any technical issues. But no, just radio silence. Is this the calm before the storm?

Something seems afoot.

That’s bizarre. Apparently they’d also had a payroll issue recently.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it's going on 24 hours now that Flair's online booking system has been down due to 'service interruption' whatever that means. I get the sense this isn't about maintenance. Flair has no mention of this on any of their social media pages, where you would think they'd alert their customers to any technical issues. But no, just radio silence. Is this the calm before the storm?

Something seems afoot.

I had seen a post elsewhere from someone wondering if they went belly up. I immediately came here because really, this place is better than Flyertalk for Canadian aviation news anymore. The website still isn't working. But I assume if they did stop flying, that would be big news and would have been reported here

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I had seen a post elsewhere from someone wondering if they went belly up. I immediately came here because really, this place is better than Flyertalk for Canadian aviation news anymore. The website still isn't working. But I assume if they did stop flying, that would be big news and would have been reported here

You would think even such a major website outage would be newsworthy. Lynx’s collapse got a lot of coverage. On the other hand a lot of the media is occupied with Brian Mulroney’s funeral today and media resources aren’t what they used to be.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I had seen a post elsewhere from someone wondering if they went belly up. I immediately came here because really, this place is better than Flyertalk for Canadian aviation news anymore. The website still isn't working. But I assume if they did stop flying, that would be big news and would have been reported here

Not surprising there’s not much on Flyertalk, I doubt many Flyertalkers would set foot on them as it skews heavily to members of frequent flyer programs.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Not surprising there’s not much on Flyertalk, I doubt many Flyertalkers would set foot on them as it skews heavily to members of frequent flyer programs.

Some of us are elite and like $79 fares. You're not getting any points on cheap short fares anyway anymore.

[SimpleEng]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Slots is part of the answer why they chose EWR, that's for sure.

JFK is a level 3 slot controlled airport. EWR isn't. It's only a level 2. So easier access at EWR.

But there are other factors.

YTZ-EWR is a shorter flight, or at least should be. Flying all the way to JFK can add a hundred miles to your flight distance on some days. Simply go on FR24 and look at all the arrivals into JFK, especially those arriving from the west. They pass JFK and go over the ocean and then come back around to land. Very very inefficient, but a necessity, due to the proximity of EWR and LGA, two other very busy airports.

So all else being equal, If you're coming from the west, flying to EWR usually cuts down on cost, and improves yield significantly compared to flying to JFK.

This being said, you can get vectored around significantly at EWR as well. That's why the schedules in/out of the NY3 airports are well padded. AC's block times on YYZ-EWR are actually higher than YYZ-JFK. Go figure.

As for lack of partners at EWR, you have to remember than YTZ-New York for PD is all about O&D and Canadian connections. They don't need connections on the NY end. So flying to JFK from YTZ is not important at all. EWR gets the job done.

And I've commuted from both EWR and JFK to Manhattan. EWR is just as convenient as JFK, to be honest. I don't remember thinking "JFK was so much easier". You take the Airtrain to the airport station and then NJ transit gets you to Penn Station in no time.

And btw, EWR is just as close to Manhattan as JFK. Both of them are around 16-17 miles from Manhattan. Since commuting from EWR involves a train, and not the subway, it's actually faster to get to Manhattan than via JFK.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Great points about slot control level, and considering total distance and the impact to yield.

Understood that folks flying from YTZ are not so interested in connections. But for those of from YOW connections both within the US and international would be valuable.

It has been a few years since I travelled to Manhattan via EWR, I remember somewhat annoying connections via train and a long cab ride back but perhaps this has improved since then. I do miss seeing that Manhattan skyline.

[Justanothermember]

It's sounding like the booking issues on Flair actually started around noon on Friday, but didn't affect everyone all at once. Now it's spreading to more and more people, and now sounds like pretty much everyone is having issues. And still not a peep about this from Flair or the media anywhere.

Something is definately off, and not in a she'll be 'right kind of way.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

It's sounding like the booking issues on Flair actually started around noon on Friday, but didn't affect everyone all at once. Now it's spreading to more and more people, and now sounds like pretty much everyone is having issues. And still not a peep about this from Flair or the media anywhere.

Something is definately off, and not in a she'll be 'right kind of way.

Speculation at airliners.net in the Flair thread seems to have come to the consensus that Flair is having trouble with payment processors. The payment processors may be holding cash back from Flair because they fear that they will be on the hook for refunds. No payment processor = no bookings.

Given the troubled reports around Flair, one can see why this is happening.

The good news is that people cannot book, so no new customers will get burned.

The silence and lack of media attention is concerning. Generally, IT woes make news quickly and the company puts out a release saying ‘We’re fixing it!’

Crickets here. Something smells rotten. This is why I don’t use sketchy operators for travel. Who wants to spend their sun vacation worrying if they’re getting home?

[Dominion301]

It’s still currently impossible to make a booking on F8’s website and there isn’t even the destination list drop-down menu. I think the end is near for them.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Some of us are elite and like $79 fares. You're not getting any points on cheap short fares anyway anymore.

Most FTers seem pretty loyal to their programs. And few would be willing to play Russian roulette with a Flair booking.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

It’s still currently impossible to make a booking on F8’s website and there isn’t even the destination list drop-down menu. I think the end is near for them.

My personal view, is their business model is flawed for the Canadian market and they would need to evolve or die. The only two models that look to work in Canada is being a sun/holiday airline (eg AirTransat), or offering connections (eg. Air Canada, WestJet, Porter etc.).

It could be their merchant bank, payment gateway provider or themselves. When you enter your credit card info into the web-site it goes from the Flair, to the gateway then to the merchant bank, then onto visa/mc/amex network on to the issuing bank.

The payment gateway service charges a few cents to transmit the order, they don't hold any funds. It would be surprising if they are blocking it.

The merchant bank is responsible for paying out any end consumer claims for services that were charged to their card but not received. If Flair were to go under, the bank that issued the consumers credit card, would fairly quickly reverse the charges and get the funds from the merchant bank. The merchant bank is stuck having to payout all the consumers and then try to recover what it can from the bankruptcy. Merchant bank likely gets to see Flairs book and if they are nervous would be holding back enough money to cover their future liability.

Then it could be flair decided to do pause this for some internal reason.

Lets see what they announce on Monday. Banker types are not know for doing much of anything on the weekend.