Canadian Retail Thread

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Off the top of my head, the independently owned brands include:

Your Independent Grocer
No Frills (all the ones I've seen)
Valumart (in medium to larger towns)
Freshmart (in smaller towns)
Provigo (some smaller store locations in Quebec but the larger ones tend to be corporate)

And there may be a few more.

I don't know how far east these get. In BC SuperValu and ExtraFoods can still be found in small towns and a few in the cities. These tends to be less restrictive, especially SuperValu. The Your Independent Grocer have little flexibility. Some of these show up in other parts of Western Canada.

[cslusarc]

Originally Posted by casper

If your willing to slightly sell your soul, they let you use a banner like ExtraFoods or SuperValu and give you access to sell some of the no-name product.

If I remember correctly in Winnipeg & Selkirk (Man.) all Extra Foods were corporate O&O locations. Some stores were previously Economarts and 1 was a limited selection Superstore Those Extra Foods locations were converted into No Frills franchised locations to break the union about 5-10 years ago.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Off the top of my head, the independently owned brands include:

Your Independent Grocer
No Frills (all the ones I've seen)
Valumart (in medium to larger towns)
Freshmart (in smaller towns)
Provigo (some smaller store locations in Quebec but the larger ones tend to be corporate)

And there may be a few more.

Valumart is owned by Loblaws, no?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by casper

Each of Loblaws franchise banners has different rules. Some are more demanding and restrictive than others. They are very protective of their President Choice brand and unless your in one of those restrictive banners they will not provide access to those products. No-name is a mix.

If you don't want to follow those rules and operate under your own name, Loblaws or Sobeys will also sell to you at wholesale (perhaps charge a bit more) but they will severely limited access to their house brands.

Interesting. I've spoken with the owner of the Loblaws near me and there is a love hate relationship. I sensed the love is that he wouldn't own a 70,000 square foot grocery store without the relationship with Loblaws. The rest was displeasure. Basically conjecture on my part.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Off the top of my head, the independently owned brands include:

Your Independent Grocer
No Frills (all the ones I've seen)
Valumart (in medium to larger towns)
Freshmart (in smaller towns)
Provigo (some smaller store locations in Quebec but the larger ones tend to be corporate)

And there may be a few more.

Originally Posted by casper

I don't know how far east these get. In BC SuperValu and ExtraFoods can still be found in small towns and a few in the cities. These tends to be less restrictive, especially SuperValu. The Your Independent Grocer have little flexibility. Some of these show up in other parts of Western Canada.

Originally Posted by cslusarc

If I remember correctly in Winnipeg & Selkirk (Man.) all Extra Foods were corporate O&O locations. Some stores were previously Economarts and 1 was a limited selection Superstore Those Extra Foods locations were converted into No Frills franchised locations to break the union about 5-10 years ago.

Thanks guys.
I now know more about Loblaws company than I ever could

Collectively you guys could write a book
Possible title
'Loblaws: from Toronto discount grocer to bending franchisees over backwards, price fixing, and Greedflation of Canada's grocery and pharmacy behemoth'

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by cslusarc

If I remember correctly in Winnipeg & Selkirk (Man.) all Extra Foods were corporate O&O locations. Some stores were previously Economarts and 1 was a limited selection Superstore Those Extra Foods locations were converted into No Frills franchised locations to break the union about 5-10 years ago.

A lot of stores have changed banners but stayed within the same company just to get rid of the union. One of our Metro stores here that was unionized closed for a year and re-opened as a non-unionized Food Basics. The goal was to get rid of higher paid employees with a number of years of experience.

Interestingly, both our Your Independent Grocer and No Frills stores are unionized and have UFCW stickers on their entrance doors.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Valumart is owned by Loblaws, no?

It's a Loblaws owned brand but most if not all locations are independently owned.

And I have to add that I checked out Freshmart and there are also more Loblaws brands that are all independently owned in mostly smaller places which includes:

L'Intermarché (in Quebec and the equivalent of Freshmart)

Super Valu

ShopEasy

AXEP

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It's a Loblaws owned brand but most if not all locations are independently owned.

And I have to add that I checked out Freshmart and there are also more Loblaws brands that are all independently owned in mostly smaller places which includes:

L'Intermarché (in Quebec and the equivalent of Freshmart)

Super Valu

ShopEasy

AXEP

I am involved in logistics systems that get used in several industries. The food industry is weird. Everyone in that industry runs on high volume and small margins. Part of the motivation for why the big guys, Loblaws, Sobeys etc. offer different wholesale programs to the independents is to just get incremental increases in the volume of product they move their distribution system.

A lot of people who run small businesses do it because they find working in big corporations/government frustrating. So I can see the love hate relationship.

For the independent retailer, if they have a more restrictive banner it usually comes with access to the loyalty program and a lot of IT infrastructure. At a "Your Independent Grocer" you can collect/spend points, the POS terminals are tied into loblaws back end systems for ordering etc. They usually negotiate special pricing from the manufacture to prepare a flyers etc.

If you own a SuperValu your outside the loyalty program. They may have a gun they can use to go around and reorder, but not directly tied into Loblaws IT systems. Your free to buy from other distributors.

Same thing goes for other types of retail. Home Hardware is a very lose program, the franchise owners have a lot of flexibility. Canadian Tire is a highly restrictive one.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't know how far east these get. In BC SuperValu and ExtraFoods can still be found in small towns and a few in the cities. These tends to be less restrictive, especially SuperValu. The Your Independent Grocer have little flexibility. Some of these show up in other parts of Western Canada.

ExtraFoods does show up in Northwestern Ontario - I've been to their store in Dryden. Probably the biggest grocery store between Kenora and Thunder Bay.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wigs

It does seem like 2019/pre covid stores were better stocked and the proper way, putting new stock on the bottom (in the bunkers) or behind (on shelf space) and existing older goods on top (bunkers) or in front (shelf space).

Whereas now it appears more rotting and/or expired products are left in the bunkers, displays, shelves like stores just gave up and stopped caring during Covid

isaidso makes a good point. Canucks need to be more American and speak up. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, or non rotting/expiring food items

Social media shaming grocery corporations can really help. For mom and pops probably better to speak to the manager or department manager directly.

I almost never buy produce at Real Canadian Superstore anymore. The quality at the Lougheed Highway location in Maillardville is awful, just awful - and I don't think it's any better at either the Grandview Highway or Metrotown stores. Walmart isn't any better. I buy all my produce at Save-on-Foods or Safeway, or sometimes even one of the independent stores we have in New West.

My biggest complaint about grocery stores since the pandemic, however, is the lack of grocery carts at the front, and how many are now left stacked in the carrels in the parking lot - to the point they're blocking traffic. I remember staff used to go out regularly to get these carts and ensure they're available at the store entrance.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I almost never buy produce at Real Canadian Superstore anymore. The quality at the Lougheed Highway location in Maillardville is awful, just awful - and I don't think it's any better at either the Grandview Highway or Metrotown stores. Walmart isn't any better. I buy all my produce at Save-on-Foods or Safeway, or sometimes even one of the independent stores we have in New West.

My biggest complaint about grocery stores since the pandemic, however, is the lack of grocery carts at the front, and how many are now left stacked in the carrels in the parking lot - to the point they're blocking traffic. I remember staff used to go out regularly to get these carts and ensure they're available at the store entrance.

The Guildford Walmart has pretty good produce now, an outside company has taken over it or supplies it and they have their name all over the pricing and labels, I forget what it is off the top of my head. The Guildford store has recently been renovated and looks a lot better now, Walmart is undergoing a 9 billion dollar renovation of its stores, theGuildford store may be a preview of what to expect in Canada at least.

This is from a USA store but the Guildford store now features this type of signage throughout. The older look with many colours like yellows, reds, and blues is now gone. Former yellow walls are now white.


New Look

usatoday.com

old look

flickr

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I almost never buy produce at Real Canadian Superstore anymore. The quality at the Lougheed Highway location in Maillardville is awful, just awful -

My biggest complaint about grocery stores since the pandemic, however, is the lack of grocery carts at the front, and how many are now left stacked in the carrels in the parking lot...

I hear you on Loblaws Co. stores for produce.

In my corner of southern Ontario, Food Basics aka Metro usually has the best produce. I've heard Farm Boy has really nice produce but it's so far away from me. It's a chain of about 50 stores now owned by Sobeys parent, Empire Company Ltd.
I liked Safeway in Western Canada but dislike that they are now owned by Sobeys parent as well. Ugh so little competition in Canada

And yeah all grocery stores used to have young guys on top of moving carts back and forth from the cart corral to the entrance. I always thought it was funny corralling metal shopping carts instead of corralling horses.

Manny, meet me at the Cart Corral. High noon

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

My biggest complaint about grocery stores since the pandemic, however, is the lack of grocery carts at the front, and how many are now left stacked in the carrels in the parking lot - to the point they're blocking traffic. I remember staff used to go out regularly to get these carts and ensure they're available at the store entrance.

The No Frills I deal with now in Woodstock Ont, doesn't have the cart corals in the parking lot, just the covered area off to the side of the entrance. And the carts take a loonie to unlock, which I assume is enough to convince people to return them. A quarter, they probably would just say screw it and leave it in the next empty parking spot.

[urbandreamer]

I checked out the new Waterloo No Frills that's opened where the Wholesale Club was located (Weber near King.) Blah. No Frills used to be affordable; now it's positioned more like a Valumart without the Frills.

Back in Toronto, I'm missing the relatively empty stores, acres of free parking and choice available in KW vs congested Toronto. I could easily get to St Jacobs farmer's market in 10 minutes vs thinking about a 45 minute trip to St Lawrence Market ugh. Toronto needs more indoor farmer's markets spread throughout the city/boroughs.

In KW I mostly shopped at Food Basics and Walmart. Even the thought of driving to the nearest FB (Dupont & Lansdowne) in Toronto turns me off, so I'm stuck with the really gross Dundas and Bloor Freshco (Henderson Hwy location in Winnipeg is nicer) & 2 No Frills, plus the pricy Organic Garage.

Anyway, after having been an urbanite without a car for 25 years, I feel like I'm done with it and crave the emptiness and dare I say privacy of small town Canada.

[casper]

The problem on the west coast with Walmart and Loblaws was distribution centers. There was no land available. Until last year Walmart did not have a distribution center in lower mainland. Almost every thing was being trucked in out of Calgary. When we had storms that isolated the region from the rest of Canada within days the big national chains would start to end up with empty shelves.

The local operations Save-On-Foods/Buy-Low have always had their local warehouse. ColdStar on Vancouver Island hands a lot of the chains on the Island. When BC coast became isolated, the stores that depend on those operations had far fewer supply issues and had fuller shelves.

Loblaws had some distribution capacity in the lower mainland but a lot of product was coming out of Regina.

Sobeys was in a weird position. They were better off but had a fragmented system with some old Safeway warehouses and the Thrifty Foods warehouses on Vancouver Island.

What should has changed everything is Campbell Heights area out in Surrey. That was opened up for industrial development and now Loblaws, Walmart, and Sobeys all have state of the art facilities.

The only question is will they start to source local product. So far when I go into Walmart in Victoria I still see a lot of product from outside BC that ideally should be local.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I checked out the new Waterloo No Frills that's opened where the Wholesale Club was located (Weber near King.) Blah. No Frills used to be affordable; now it's positioned more like a Valumart without the Frills.

Back in Toronto, I'm missing the relatively empty stores, acres of free parking and choice available in KW vs congested Toronto. I could easily get to St Jacobs farmer's market in 10 minutes vs thinking about a 45 minute trip to St Lawrence Market ugh. Toronto needs more indoor farmer's markets spread throughout the city/boroughs.

In KW I mostly shopped at Food Basics and Walmart. Even the thought of driving to the nearest FB (Dupont & Lansdowne) in Toronto turns me off, so I'm stuck with the really gross Dundas and Bloor Freshco (Henderson Hwy location in Winnipeg is nicer) & 2 No Frills, plus the pricy Organic Garage.

Anyway, after having been an urbanite without a car for 25 years, I feel like I'm done with it and crave the emptiness and dare I say privacy of small town Canada.

An observation I’ve had in BC is that we have a lot more little stores selling produce, even outside Vancouver. For example, if you go into Lougheed Town Centre in Burnaby, they’ve got a store selling produce. Same at the Royal Square Mall in New West. I also saw such a store outside Coquitlam Town Centre. You just don’t typically see that in Ontario.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by casper

The problem on the west coast with Walmart and Loblaws was distribution centers. There was no land available. Until last year Walmart did not have a distribution center in lower mainland. Almost every thing was being trucked in out of Calgary. When we had storms that isolated the region from the rest of Canada within days the big national chains would start to end up with empty shelves.

The local operations Save-On-Foods/Buy-Low have always had their local warehouse. ColdStar on Vancouver Island hands a lot of the chains on the Island. When BC coast became isolated, the stores that depend on those operations had far fewer supply issues and had fuller shelves.

Loblaws had some distribution capacity in the lower mainland but a lot of product was coming out of Regina.

Sobeys was in a weird position. They were better off but had a fragmented system with some old Safeway warehouses and the Thrifty Foods warehouses on Vancouver Island.

What should has changed everything is Campbell Heights area out in Surrey. That was opened up for industrial development and now Loblaws, Walmart, and Sobeys all have state of the art facilities.

The only question is will they start to source local product. So far when I go into Walmart in Victoria I still see a lot of product from outside BC that ideally should be local.

So what you’re telling me is that if I go to Bellingham and shop at the Fred Meyer store there, their food is more “local” than what Superstore and Walmart here are selling? (Fred Meyer has their nearest distribution centre just outside Seattle)

It just seems ridiculous that the food I might buy in Bellingham has travelled a far shorter distance than stuff I’d buy on this side of the border, coming from two provinces over. People say buying “local” means buying Canadian, but “local” in my case seems to be from a part of the US within a day’s drive rather than a 2-3 day drive away that happens to be in Canadian territory.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The No Frills I deal with now in Woodstock Ont, doesn't have the cart corals in the parking lot, just the covered area off to the side of the entrance. And the carts take a loonie to unlock, which I assume is enough to convince people to return them. A quarter, they probably would just say screw it and leave it in the next empty parking spot.

They got rid of that coin deposit thing in Quebec during the pandemic, and it never came back.

You could buy a keychain token that would work to unlock the carts at one time.

Some places have radio controlled locking mechanisms on one of the wheels that would engage if you left the parking lot. Bubbles would have quite the time collecting carts today.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

An observation I’ve had in BC is that we have a lot more little stores selling produce, even outside Vancouver. For example, if you go into Lougheed Town Centre in Burnaby, they’ve got a store selling produce. Same at the Royal Square Mall in New West. I also saw such a store outside Coquitlam Town Centre. You just don’t typically see that in Ontario.

You mean stores like Remark or the 2 Sunripes in London? Or smaller stores?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The No Frills I deal with now in Woodstock Ont, doesn't have the cart corals in the parking lot, just the covered area off to the side of the entrance. And the carts take a loonie to unlock, which I assume is enough to convince people to return them. A quarter, they probably would just say screw it and leave it in the next empty parking spot.

Problem is that nowadays, many people do not carry physical cash (let alone coins).