Canadian Retail Thread

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Unlike Ontario where liqour is priced at the dollar amount the LCBO sets in every store, prices are store dependent like a more regular good, so you have to go to the right store. Buying wine from a grocery store isn't going to save much over Ontario - but Costco can have decent wines on for a fraction of the cost in Ontario pretty easily. I've seen $20 bottles in Ontario go for $8 USD at Costco.

I'm sure it varies a lot by state, but we bought most of the wine for our wedding at Costco in suburban New Orleans. It was not cheaper than the LCBO for the quality they were selling which is something we were very surprised at. I remember cross-referencing stuff with the LCBO app and finding that pricing differences were all over the place. The only other state I've been to Costco in is Hawaii, which was definitely more expensive but that was expected! I'm sure others are indeed cheaper for the products they choose to stock.

I'm most familiar with beer since I have friends in the industry (who distribute to the US) and the system there is actually more complicated that Ontario and much of Canada. While individual stores do have more freedom to price product, they are generally reliant on one or two (if they're lucky) massive distributors that set the wholesale price. Deals on large purchases of macro beers are relatively common, but when it comes to craft it's a different story. Margins are already very low and adding that middle-man adds cost. IIRC in some areas local brewers can deal directly with bars/retailers which helps for those products, but this is not allowed everywhere. There's a lot of pressure to buy certain products from the distributor.

In Ontario brewers can deal directly with bars which now includes independent bottleshops, even if a third-party does the delivery. LCBO sales have to go through different QC and price is regulated. This is also part of why craft brewers in the US got hit much harder during COVID as they deal exclusively with third-party distributors.

No moral to this story other than alcohol regulation/distribution is annoying everywhere in North America.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by esquire

Interestingly, the last time I checked, there were fairly stingy limits on the quantity of dairy products you could bring back from the US. But I doubt this is strongly enforced because of the relatively short shelf life of these products... the border guards have never asked me about dairy specifically. After all, not too many people will be bringing 40 kg of cheese from the US for personal use.

I suppose CBSA might only become interested if you looked like you were planning to import large quantities for the purpose of reselling it.

The times I have been asked about food when coming back into Canada has been around Thanksgiving and Christmas. Around those times, CBSA will ask about turkeys as there's only one turkey allowed per person. There used to be excellent sales on turkeys the week before US Thanksgiving. Can remember purchasing turkeys for 19c/lb. Prices are much higher now and usually have a minimum spend requirement attached to the sale price.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Typical is 81% butter fat, iirc. The higher fat content is better for baking.

Typical is 80% in Canada but outside of North America, 81%-82% is standard and 84% is premium. Higher fat content makes it more malleable, meaning it is easier to work with especially at cooler temperatures. It's impossible to make a decent croissant with 80% butter. The lack of high fat butter in Canada has long been a perennial irritant of pastry shops who have had to spend a fortune on tariffs to buy foreign butter to make their products.

It's not only a Canadian problem; most SKUs of American butter are also low in fat as well. The difference is that in the US there is a broad availability of specialty butters on the market so it's easy enough to find high fat butter if you want it. Up until about 5 years ago, 84% butter basically did not exist in Canada outside of a handful of niche specialty stores and it was usually imported meaning the tarrifs made it super expensive. Now most Canadian producers have at least one or two high fat SKUs and most grocery stores carry them. They typically market it as "European style". My favourite is Gay Lea Baker's Gold. It's almost as good as the stuff you'd find in France, and it's usually around $7-$8 per 250g which is expensive but reasonable to buy a few packs a year for Christmas baking, and most supermarkets carry it.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by niwell

Even booze is a mixed bag. Yes, you can get a flat of macro beer or handle of cheap liquor for MUCH less than in Canada. On the flipside, a lot of craft beer, top-shelf stuff and good wines are on par and occasionally even more expensive. Though this varies by area a lot, and the LCBO is surprisingly competitive for high-end products. Due to the distribution system in the US craft beer in particular can get very pricey and non-shelf stable beer can sit on unrefrigerated shelves for way too long (something the LCBO has gotten a lot better at). It's rarely worth buying anything that isn't local if you want fresh beer at this point. When it costs $5-7USD for a 500ml can I've gotten a lot more discerning on this front.

Basically the stuff that's actually a lot cheaper is what's most heavily regulated in terms of the amount you can bring back. I'd only really consider it if I was near the border and wanted a bunch of cheap beer / liquor for a party or something.

Was also shocked when I was in Chicago last that gas was actually slightly more expensive than Canada. But then again almost everything seems expensive there, and stuff like cigarettes are also more than here. Whereas Detroit was quite a bit cheaper - ditto Buffalo. We made sure to fill up on the US side in those places.

This is my biggest annoyance with the LCBO - that there are no SKUs of inexpensive low quality liquor. I like to made homemade extracts (vanilla extract, almond extract, etc.) as part of my scratch cooking hobby, and to do that, you need large quantities of 40%-50% liquor. It gets super expensive to do that in Canada

I'm aware of the public health & safety issue of having super cheap hard liquor readily available and it's probably for the best that we don't, but it still annoys me personally.

[1overcosc]

I realized both of the last two posts I made - complaining about the difficulty of using Canadian retailers to make fancy pastries and homemade almond extract - makes me sound like a snob

But in all seriousness, for people like me who are really into things like scratch cooking, home fermentation, traditional food things, etc. Canada can be an annoying country to live in.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is my biggest annoyance with the LCBO - that there are no SKUs of inexpensive low quality liquor. I like to made homemade extracts (vanilla extract, almond extract, etc.) as part of my scratch cooking hobby, and to do that, you need large quantities of 40%-50% liquor. It gets super expensive to do that in Canada

I'm aware of the public health & safety issue of having super cheap hard liquor readily available and it's probably for the best that we don't, but it still annoys me personally.

I'm not sure if that sort of thing was ever widely available in Canada, but I can tell you that in Manitoba there would be immense resistance to offering it on store shelves due to the abuse that would likely happen.

The main tipple of choice for low-budget hardcore alcoholics here is Westminster sherry (apera). $10 for a 750 mL bottle of the stuff... it's 20% alcohol. The Liquor Mart in Thompson, Man (pop. 13,030) sold 103,553 bottles of the stuff from 2015-17 according to the CBC. One can only imagine what would happen if stuff twice as potent hit the market at a similar price point.

The well known "Wessy" bottle:

[Kilgore Trout]

I can confirm what niwell is saying: craft beer has become just as expensive in the US as it is in Canada, and in some cases significantly more expensive. The best deals are on craft breweries with large volume and national distribution (eg Sierra Nevada), and for the quality of beer you get, the price is good. But for anything local and especially anything hyped up or out of the ordinary, you're paying at least a 30% premium over equivalent beers from Ontario and Quebec.

Spirits are generally cheaper in the US than anywhere in Canada, but again there are important exceptions. For whatever reason, Italian spirits and liqueurs like Campari and Cynar are way overpriced in the US compared to Canada. Same goes for things like Chartreuse or Ricard. The SAQ and LCBO usually offer much better prices on those. Naturally, bourbon is a much better deal in the US so that's definitely worth bringing back across the border.

Wine can be surprisingly expensive in the US. There's a lot of cheap California stuff but for anything low-intervention, I find the SAQ is way cheaper and usually has a much bigger selection.

It's also worth noting there are big variations within the US. I got a bottle of La Gritona, a really nice reposado tequila, from a hipster bottle shop in Brooklyn for US$40. A few months later I saw it in the New Hampshire state liquor store (usually the cheapest place of all) for US$50.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I realized both of the last two posts I made - complaining about the difficulty of using Canadian retailers to make fancy pastries and homemade almond extract - makes me sound like a snob

But in all seriousness, for people like me who are really into things like scratch cooking, home fermentation, traditional food things, etc. Canada can be an annoying country to live in.

But things can vary greatly between provinces and regions withing provinces. I am always surprised at the variety of foods available in the region in Quebec next door to where I live while more specialized items are often not available in Northeastern Ontario. I always find some great things in Rouyn-Noranda. Timmins doesn't have a grocery store that comes even close to their IGA Plus.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by niwell

Even booze is a mixed bag. Yes, you can get a flat of macro beer or handle of cheap liquor for MUCH less than in Canada. On the flipside, a lot of craft beer, top-shelf stuff and good wines are on par and occasionally even more expensive. Though this varies by area a lot, and the LCBO is surprisingly competitive for high-end products. Due to the distribution system in the US craft beer in particular can get very pricey and non-shelf stable beer can sit on unrefrigerated shelves for way too long (something the LCBO has gotten a lot better at). It's rarely worth buying anything that isn't local if you want fresh beer at this point. When it costs $5-7USD for a 500ml can I've gotten a lot more discerning on this front.

Basically the stuff that's actually a lot cheaper is what's most heavily regulated in terms of the amount you can bring back. I'd only really consider it if I was near the border and wanted a bunch of cheap beer / liquor for a party or something.

Was also shocked when I was in Chicago last that gas was actually slightly more expensive than Canada. But then again almost everything seems expensive there, and stuff like cigarettes are also more than here. Whereas Detroit was quite a bit cheaper - ditto Buffalo. We made sure to fill up on the US side in those places.

I totally had the same observations as you for pricing.

I only buy beer and coolers at the Canadian duty-free in Sault Ste Marie ON which has much cheaper and better stuff than in the American stores. Interestingly, the cheapest beer at the U.S. Costco stores was Labatt Blue Light and Molson Canadian. Beer is cheaper to produce in Canada right now.

The average gasoline price in Illinois is actually slightly higher than in Ontario. The price was a lot cheaper in Indiana and in between in Michigan from my observations and trip this year.

[whatnext]

Interesting little article on Indigo on BNN. I had no idea they had sunk to selling vibes!

EXCLUSIVE: Indigo 'took a journey off brand,' Heather Reisman says
Iva Poshnjari, BNN Bloomberg

Indigo Books & Music Inc. founder Heather Reisman says she returned to the role of CEO at the Canadian books retailer after succession plans took a wrong turn.

In an exclusive interview with BNN Bloomberg’s Amanda Lang, Reisman said she decided to return to the top job when she realized the bookstore chain was losing its authentic connection to its loyal customers, while its finances went off track.

“I'm back because notwithstanding everybody's best intentions, Indigo took a journey off brand,” she said in the interview set to air on Friday.

‘SUCCESSION IS REALLY HARD’

Reisman had been winding down her involvement in the company, departing as chief executive in September 2022 and leaving the company’s board this summer.

But last month, the company announced Reisman was back in the CEO chair and on the Indigo board after the abrupt departure of her successor, Peter Ruis....

....Reisman said she began to notice products being sold in Indigo stores that she felt did not fit the brand customers had aligned with for over two decades, such as pricey barbecues and vibrators.

At that point, she said, she realized the bookstore had lost sight of its brand identity.

“The customers knew and know,” she said. “It was both clearly taking the business the wrong direction and financially very much showing.”

Reisman said the business could have been sold – and was even approached by buyers – but she decided against it over a sense of duty to the company she created.

“It was time to make a decision. I could have said, 'Let me just sell the business.' We'd been approached, but I couldn’t,” she said. ....

... Reisman said she is now focused on bringing back the Indigo she carefully curated for its devoted customers, in what she predicted will be a long journey of at least a year.

“We will do this with our customers. The customers will see step by step that the core of this business is going to come back as quickly as I can move it,” Reisman said.

“Books will move to the centre.”

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/exclusiv...says-1.1983871

[MolsonExport]

Indigo still sells books? I thought it was reduced to selling overpriced yet worthless bric-à-brac, Kids' toys and Godiva chocolate bars. And of course, "Heather's picks"

It was becoming another Pier-One Imports (Another store selling worthless junk).

How's that for being "off brand", Heather? (and your vampiric husband...did you know that Onex owns Worstjet?).

[jamincan]

She only left in 2022, but Indigo has been in a death-spiral for much longer than that. New stores? Good luck even finding the books in the maze of little rooms full of knick knacks. It's more like a giant souvenir shop now than a bookstore.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Indigo still sells books? I thought it was reduced to selling overpriced yet worthless bric-à-brac, Kids' toys and Godiva chocolate bars. And of course, "Heather's picks"

It was becoming another Pier-One Imports (Another store selling worthless junk).

How's that for being "off brand", Heather? (and your vampiric husband...did you know that Onex owns Worstjet?).

I always jokingly get upset at my wife when she buys non-book items at Indigo and Coles.

It's kind of funny that a Toronto-based corporation owns WestJet.

[casper]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Indigo still sells books? I thought it was reduced to selling overpriced yet worthless bric-à-brac, Kids' toys and Godiva chocolate bars. And of course, "Heather's picks"

It was becoming another Pier-One Imports (Another store selling worthless junk).

How's that for being "off brand", Heather? (and your vampiric husband...did you know that Onex owns Worstjet?).

Don’t forget the candles. Major consumable of those who shop there.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by casper

Don’t forget the candles. Major consumable of those who shop there.

My wife has purchased a number of blankets there. Well at least she uses the blankets when she reads.

[manny_santos]

Incidentally I was in the Indigo store at Metrotown last night, and while they do sell some non-book items there, that particular location does have a decent book selection.

Still, they do have a portion of the store set aside for stuff like baby toys. And I admit I bought a plushie there for a colleague who had a baby last year.

Meanwhile in the US, Barnes & Noble is moving back to a books-first format, according to a NY Times article I saw earlier this week. They’ve had a similar drift in their product offerings in recent years.

[Djeffery]

Bad Boy Furniture declared bankruptcy today. Liquidation sales will happen in some stores, not sure which yet. All deposits are lost and no merch on order will be delivered. They cite the slowing housing market and high interest rates among their reasons for this.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Bad Boy Furniture declared bankruptcy today. Liquidation sales will happen in some stores, not sure which yet. All deposits are lost and no merch on order will be delivered. They cite the slowing housing market and high interest rates among their reasons for this.

They really are criminals.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Bad Boy Furniture declared bankruptcy today. Liquidation sales will happen in some stores, not sure which yet. All deposits are lost and no merch on order will be delivered. They cite the slowing housing market and high interest rates among their reasons for this.

Who’s more bankrupt than Bad Boy?

Noooooooooooooobodyyyyy!

[kwoldtimer]

I see HBC is selling the furniture in order to be able to pay suppliers. The end of the beginning of the end?