What is it like to come home to Canada?

[Curmudgeon]

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/sec...broke-they-are

Very concerning story. Why would the RCMP prepare such a report?

"Right from the get-go, the report authors warn that whatever Canada’s current situation, it 'will probably deteriorate further in the next five years'..The coming period of recession will … accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations,” reads the report, entitled Whole-of-Government Five-Year Trends for Canada."

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/sec...broke-they-are

Very concerning story. Why would the RCMP prepare such a report?

"Right from the get-go, the report authors warn that whatever Canada’s current situation, it 'will probably deteriorate further in the next five years'..The coming period of recession will … accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations,” reads the report, entitled Whole-of-Government Five-Year Trends for Canada."

Why would they not? Although it sometimes seems otherwise, the RCMP is not exempt from the bureaucratic obligation to think.

[Curmudgeon]

^^^ not questioning why they would prepare a report, but why would they prepare THIS report and reach these conclusions?

Certainly there is overwhelming evidence that Canada is in relative economic decline, but this report suggests recession and an accelerated decline of living standards in the next five years. Where does this come from?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

^^^ not questioning why they would prepare a report, but why would they prepare THIS report and reach these conclusions?

Certainly there is overwhelming evidence that Canada is in relative economic decline, but this report suggests recession and an accelerated decline of living standards in the next five years. Where does this come from?

Not sure I understand your concern.

[thewave46]

Man, a little house in a small city of New Zealand has a certain appeal.

Even if it all goes to pot, you still have electricity, water, enough food to eat, and everyone else needs to take a boat or airplane to get there.

Alas, the ties that bind, and all. This is the stand I make.

Despite the Boomer fear of Millennials pulling the plug on their parents, I somehow doubt it will happen. Maybe just shuttle them off to the same long-term care homes they shuttled their parents off to. The irony of living better, I suppose.

I’m just surprised the RCMP report was even written, mostly. It’s an open secret, no? Perhaps a little too on the nose, but the tea leaves were not that hard to read.

Pick your place and make your stand with that in mind.

[thewave46]

I suspect the RCMP report is a worst case scenario.

Then again, if even Newfoundlanders are getting ornery enough to storm The Rooms, maybe we’re not as far from the precipice as we think.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I suspect the RCMP report is a worst case scenario.

Then again, if even Newfoundlanders are getting ornery enough to storm The Rooms, maybe we’re not as far from the precipice as we think.

Canada descending into a lawless state of civil unrest might be a worst case scenario, but I don't think the purpose of this report is necessarily to predict that, or any other specific outcome. The National Post headline is a bit of editorializing. Moreso, it seems to simply be about identifying threats and making note that among other things, a poor economy, housing precarity, deteriorating quality of life, climate change, misinformation, and threats to our sovereignty are all real and growing threats to our stability & peace.

[casper]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Canada descending into a lawless state of civil unrest might be a worst case scenario, but I don't think the purpose of this report is necessarily to predict that, or any other specific outcome. The National Post headline is a bit of editorializing. Moreso, it seems to simply be about identifying threats and making note that among other things, a poor economy, housing precarity, deteriorating quality of life, climate change, misinformation, and threats to our sovereignty are all real and growing threats to our stability & peace.

Yes. Lets look at the rest of the article.....

RCMP also warns of a future increasingly defined by unpredictable weather and seasonal catastrophes, such as wildfires and flooding. Most notably, report authors warn of Canada facing “increasing pressure to cede Arctic territory.”

Canadians are set to become increasingly disillusioned with their government, which authors mostly chalk up to “misinformation,” “conspiracy theories” and “paranoia.”

“Law enforcement should expect continuing social and political polarization fueled by misinformation campaigns and an increasing mistrust for all democratic institutions,”

“Capitalizing on the rise of political polarization and conspiracy theories have been populists willing to tailor their messages to appeal to extremist movements,”

Sounds like a very broad analysis of what the RCMP should be prepared to potentially address. I would rather they plan for extreme and unlikely events rather than not being prepared.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yes, as an IT professional, I can 100% confirm that this is true. 1 really brilliant tech guy/girl is worth dozens of average ones. I've seen all my career situations where you have a team of 10-15 and there's one person in the whole team that basically carries everyone else.

Very few people understand this because most other areas don't work this way. Virtually impossible to find a lawyer or accountant or bricklayer who is literally 10x better than average. It's counterintuitive but arguably the scene that works like this is the Arts.

I think the stats do actually hide the problem in plain sight. Our tech sector is supposedly doing okay. Yet, look at citations, patents, business growth, etc. Markers of quality aren't growing as fast as quantity.

[Truenorth00]

I read this headline this morning:

NASA is struggling to compete with Bezos, Musk and their 6-figure salaries for starting aerospace engineers at Blue Origin and SpaceX
SpaceX is currently listing starting aerospace engineer positions at $95,000 to $115,000 a year. NASA offers along a range that starts at $54,557.

https://fortune.com/2024/03/20/nasa-...ex-musk-bezos/

And then I think back to 2012/2013 when I knew young engineers starting at $45k with Bombardier who had to live with their parents till they got married so they could afford a decent first home. This is the difference between Canada and the US. I can't imagine the last decade has been kinder to young engineers in TO. Meanwhile, their buddies with BAs who became Realtors are loaded.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by casper

Yes. Lets look at the rest of the article.....



Sounds like a very broad analysis of what the RCMP should be prepared to potentially address. I would rather they plan for extreme and unlikely events rather than not being prepared.

Yes, the RCMP doing its job. What a concept.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yes, as an IT professional, I can 100% confirm that this is true. 1 really brilliant tech guy/girl is worth dozens of average ones. I've seen all my career situations where you have a team of 10-15 and there's one person in the whole team that basically carries everyone else.

I can also confirm that Truenorth is very correct when pointing out the fact that in the tech sector, you can’t assume you’ll be able to solve any potential problem with just little adjustments in how much money or how many bodies you’re throwing at it. We had such a moment in the very early days of my startup: we weren’t even sure at some point that the science behind the concept that was the nucleus of the whole thing would work as intended.

This was pretty damn scary compared to everything I was used to at that point (industrial construction, real estate, manufacturing) where every problem is solvable. (I understand very well that Canadian investors don’t have much appetite for that sort of risk if they can avoid it.)

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Why would they not? Although it sometimes seems otherwise, the RCMP is not exempt from the bureaucratic obligation to think.

Indeed. I think the parts about "the coming recession" are actually the least interesting or concerning parts of it, since this was written in mid-2022, when everyone assumed a recession was imminent, which no longer appears to be nearly so certain.

More interesting is the stuff dealing with overall declining living standards for younger people, as well as the material on paranoid populism and misinformation (e.g. convoy loons) and the parts about how environmental disasters could exacerbate societal instability.

I would be really skeptical of the way the National Post has framed this, though. Tristin Hopper especially is a right-wing contrarian propagandist disguised as a reporter. The CBC also published a story about it a couple of weeks ago, with a more readable embedded version of the report. (The one on the Post's site has been removed.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Indeed. I think the parts about "the coming recession" are actually the least interesting or concerning parts of it, since this was written in mid-2022, when everyone assumed a recession was imminent, which no longer appears to be nearly so certain.

More interesting is the stuff dealing with overall declining living standards for younger people, as well as the material on paranoid populism and misinformation (e.g. convoy loons) and the parts about how environmental disasters could exacerbate societal instability.

I would be really skeptical of the way the National Post has framed this, though. Tristin Hopper especially is a right-wing contrarian propagandist disguised as a reporter. The CBC also published a story about it a couple of weeks ago, with a more readable embedded version of the report. (The one on the Post's site has been removed.)

Ooh boy does Tristin ever get under some people's skin! Him and Jonathan Kay.

[giallo]

I've been following a few exciting bands and the photographers that shoot them in Vancouver. They are mostly made up of young Zoomers (like 19-22 years old). For the last year or so, their Instagram was a window into the "New Underground Vancouver"; very creative people that support each other immensely. It was like watching a new vibrant culture be created in realtime on social media. It was interesting observing this after being away from Canada for so long. It wasn't something you'd see in Seoul, for instance.

Recently, the city shut down their DIY venue. It was where most of these shows were held, and was a safe, cheap space for anyone and everyone. You could tell it was an extremely important gathering place for these people.

Since the closing, the tone of their posts have become a lot more dark. They have nowhere to go that they can afford, so they're on the beaches or in the forest hanging out. There's no more photos of bands playing. No more gig posters about upcoming shows. One photographer posted how she's messed her life up so bad, and has no direction. How she has no choice but to live with her parents even though she's an adult, and should be living on her own.

It's a window into a generation that doesn't understand that it's not their fault. Like, you're not supposed to be able to afford $3000 for a 1 bedroom apartment at 22 years old. They have no reference though. To them, this is how it is, and how it's always been. There's very little historic hindsight when you're 21 years old. You just feel like you're a failure because you can't participate in society like you were shown or taught.

In this regard, Canadian cities have become extremely hostile to younger generations. Getting a job and an apartment are tough enough, but getting a job that pays enough to afford an apartment is even more difficult. So many Gen Zers are all stuck at home, unable to start that next chapter.

I wonder what this generation is going to look like coming out of the other side of this.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by giallo

In this regard, Canadian cities have become extremely hostile to younger generations. Getting a job and an apartment are tough enough, but getting a job that pays enough to afford an apartment is even more difficult. They're all just stuck at home, unable to start that next chapter.

I wonder what this generation is going to look like coming out of the other side of this.

Angry and embittered, I imagine. Ratcheting down expectations is painful.

The country is run in a fashion for a certain demographic. Try to play one's life in that fashion and you might get by alright.

It's one thing to be not well off, but at least living is cheap. One can foment creativity that way when young. It's another to be stifled by high cost. One bears these things for a bit, but eventually it catches up to you. It's fun to live with friends in the city in one's early 20s. It loses a lot of pizzazz in one's 30s and 40s.

New York and San Francisco of the 1970s were not nice cities, but they were creative spots for the young. New York and San Francisco of the 2020s are nicer, but the cost of getting in is so dear as to annihilate the creative energy of youth.

Admittedly, the bet was previously to import people en masse with lower expectations. When the young from India look at Canada and are disappointed, well...that says something about life here.

[acottawa]

I wonder if people will start leaving cities, some sort of Youth Flight.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder if people will start leaving cities, some sort of Youth Flight.

More likely they'll leave the country before they think about retreating from the big hubs. At this rate, even UK cities outside of London is a better value proposition than staying in English Canada.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ooh boy does Tristin ever get under some people's skin! Him and Jonathan Kay.

That's because they're both professional contrarians whose entire professional persona is about getting under people's skins, not providing reporting with any kind of analysis, depth or intelligence.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by giallo

I've been following a few exciting bands and the photographers that shoot them in Vancouver. They are mostly made up of young Zoomers (like 19-22 years old). For the last year or so, their Instagram was a window into the "New Underground Vancouver"; very creative people that support each other immensely. It was like watching a new vibrant culture be created in realtime on social media. It was interesting observing this after being away from Canada for so long. It wasn't something you'd see in Seoul, for instance.

Recently, the city shut down their DIY venue. It was where most of these shows were held, and was a safe, cheap space for anyone and everyone. You could tell it was an extremely important gathering place for these people.

Since the closing, the tone of their posts have become a lot more dark. They have nowhere to go that they can afford, so they're on the beaches or in the forest hanging out. There's no more photos of bands playing. No more gig posters about upcoming shows. One photographer posted how she's messed her life up so bad, and has no direction. How she has no choice but to live with her parents even though she's an adult, and should be living on her own.

It's a window into a generation that doesn't understand that it's not their fault. Like, you're not supposed to be able to afford $3000 for a 1 bedroom apartment at 22 years old. They have no reference though. To them, this is how it is, and how it's always been. There's very little historic hindsight when you're 21 years old. You just feel like you're a failure because you can't participate in society like you were shown or taught.

In this regard, Canadian cities have become extremely hostile to younger generations. Getting a job and an apartment are tough enough, but getting a job that pays enough to afford an apartment is even more difficult. So many Gen Zers are all stuck at home, unable to start that next chapter.

I wonder what this generation is going to look like coming out of the other side of this.

So why don't they leave? I don't mean this is in a GenX vs Zoomer way but virtually everyone outside of the Native American population is here because life in their old country sucked for some reason so they left. Heck, even the "indigenous" population crossed the Bering Land Bridge because presumably life in East Asia at the time wasn't great.