PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

I think better connections should be made from Station Square to the South Side. There's kind of a gap between the two without much pedestrian or vehicular options. If you extended Station Square Drive to McKean Street and developed that parking area to the south & east of the Smithfield Bridge you could have one continuous entertainment district from the Highmark Stadium all the way to the South Side Works.

There's most definitely a gap between Station Square and 10th St., but much of that area is old warehouses and light industrial, at least until around 7th-8th Streets. I would love to see the South Side extend itself past 10th to Station Square as well, but with the industrial activity (not to mention the concrete plant that was filmed in a few scenes of Jack Reacher! ), I don't see it really being extended. Perhaps we could encourage the owners of the homes at least directly fronting Carson around 4th-8th to actually take care of their properties a little, though!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[daviderik]

Wow, I had no Idea that black façade covering the entrances of the liberty tunnels was made of COR-TEN steel! The same steel used in making the US Steel tower. I Grew up in the south hills. And Yes we Bitch. We have the right to. North-East-and West of the city has a major roadway/highway connecting it to central Pittsburgh. But the South Hills has a tunnel and Route 51? That road is a piece of shit! They talk about "McKnightmare road" in the north hills. Try 51 at rush. And we have no choice. Every south hills neighborhood is connected to it. Problem today we use too much public money on welfare and not enough on public projects like we did back in the 1920's when the tunnel was built. Rebuilding 51 to move more people in a faster way is another piece of the puzzle that must be in place for Pittsburgh to move into the future. Use emanate domain and get rid of those crappy building and old houses and business along the road. And build an elevated highway. They have been talking about re-doing the intersection of 51 and 88 since I was in grade school. Where to get the money? It's how you cut the pie I guess. So until then. We are trapped under politics and red tape.

[Minivan Werner]

Originally Posted by glowrock

There's most definitely a gap between Station Square and 10th St., but much of that area is old warehouses and light industrial, at least until around 7th-8th Streets. I would love to see the South Side extend itself past 10th to Station Square as well, but with the industrial activity (not to mention the concrete plant that was filmed in a few scenes of Jack Reacher! ), I don't see it really being extended. Perhaps we could encourage the owners of the homes at least directly fronting Carson around 4th-8th to actually take care of their properties a little, though!

Aaron (Glowrock)

They used that concrete place for the Dark Knight Rises scenes too, didn't they?

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by daviderik

Wow, I had no Idea that black façade covering the entrances of the liberty tunnels was made of COR-TEN steel! The same steel used in making the US Steel tower. I Grew up in the south hills. And Yes we Bitch. We have the right to. North-East-and West of the city has a major roadway/highway connecting it to central Pittsburgh. But the South Hills has a tunnel and Route 51? That road is a piece of shit! They talk about "McKnightmare road" in the north hills. Try 51 at rush. And we have no choice. Every south hills neighborhood is connected to it. Problem today we use too much public money on welfare and not enough on public projects like we did back in the 1920's when the tunnel was built. Rebuilding 51 to move more people in a faster way is another piece of the puzzle that must be in place for Pittsburgh to move into the future. Use emanate domain and get rid of those crappy building and old houses and business along the road. And build an elevated highway. They have been talking about re-doing the intersection of 51 and 88 since I was in grade school. Where to get the money? It's how you cut the pie I guess. So until then. We are trapped under politics and red tape.

I think they're supposed to commence work on that hellish PA 51/PA 88 intersection. I'm actually in full agreement with you on revamping 51. I think that not only should they eminent domain the businesses from Overbrook to Beltzhoover, but they should widen it; make it an urban boulevard and put TND development along the corridor. How about all of that shit just north of the Whited Street/Nobles Lane vicinity? That is a disgrace, and to think that a LRT stop serves that?!!

I think something should be done with the land near the South Bank stop on the Overbrook line. I know there used to be houses down there. Of course any type of development is prohibited there since it's on a flood plain...

Convert it into a park, maybe? I see there's a rather creepy pedestrian entrance and an old road. I have an idea for that whole area. They really should make it more pedestrian friendly. It's mostly commercial, I know, but even at that, who the hell wants to drive there OR take the T there?

Also, Minivan, I have a blog post about that. Is my idea along the same lines as your thinking?
http://urbandesigneggshell.blogspot....on-square.html

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by daviderik

Wow, I had no Idea that black façade covering the entrances of the liberty tunnels was made of COR-TEN steel! The same steel used in making the US Steel tower. I Grew up in the south hills. And Yes we Bitch. We have the right to. North-East-and West of the city has a major roadway/highway connecting it to central Pittsburgh. But the South Hills has a tunnel and Route 51? That road is a piece of shit! They talk about "McKnightmare road" in the north hills. Try 51 at rush. And we have no choice. Every south hills neighborhood is connected to it. Problem today we use too much public money on welfare and not enough on public projects like we did back in the 1920's when the tunnel was built. Rebuilding 51 to move more people in a faster way is another piece of the puzzle that must be in place for Pittsburgh to move into the future. Use emanate domain and get rid of those crappy building and old houses and business along the road. And build an elevated highway. They have been talking about re-doing the intersection of 51 and 88 since I was in grade school. Where to get the money? It's how you cut the pie I guess. So until then. We are trapped under politics and red tape.

What in the hell are you blathering about? I can't tell if you're being serious or you've lost it. I agree with you that Route 51 is a piece of crap, but I don't think the reason why there's not a much better road is lack of overall funding but rather the topography of the area. And now you want to build an elevated highway? I assume you're talking about taking over literally hundreds to thousands of properties? The 88/51 intersection is finally getting worked on now, for what it's worth. I would agree that 51 could really use an overhaul, but not likely in the way you envision.

And what the hell is with your little rant on "welfare"? Seriously???

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Evergrey]

Welcome back to the Pittsburgh thread, glowrock!

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by glowrock

What in the hell are you blathering about? I can't tell if you're being serious or you've lost it. I agree with you that Route 51 is a piece of crap, but I don't think the reason why there's not a much better road is lack of overall funding but rather the topography of the area. And now you want to build an elevated highway? I assume you're talking about taking over literally hundreds to thousands of properties? The 88/51 intersection is finally getting worked on now, for what it's worth. I would agree that 51 could really use an overhaul, but not likely in the way you envision.

And what the hell is with your little rant on "welfare"? Seriously???

Aaron (Glowrock)

You know, if you go to the pahighways website and look up abandoned/cancelled PGH highways, you'd find a proposal for the Saw Mill Run Expressway. Could you imagine a L.A.-sized freeway right where Route 51 is now? I think I'd shoot myself if I were my grandparents. They lived on Lucina Avenue in Overbrook, less than 1/2 mile up the hill from Saw Mill Run Blvd. I think you'd be able to hear quite a bit of noise from an 8-lane freeway only 0.2 miles away. I know I could always hear the PCC trolleys on the Overbrook line when they still ran...

Yeah, for the record, converting Saw Mill Run Blvd/Clairton Blvd. into an elevated freeway, not a good idea IMHO...

[Jonboy1983]

Losing the building with the "bride" mural would have been a bit tragic...

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4...#axzz2ZjHAR9eP

I'd like to see these houses rebuilt as a updated form of architecture to go along with that mural. Those girls who did that were gifted. They were taken from us way too soon...

I was wondering where exactly it is. Looking at Google Earth, it's walking distance from the Glass Lofts condos. Adjacent to that is more new construction, and adjacent to that is where that row of houses caught fire. Their architecture looked intriguing...

A catercorner from those homes is an awful stretch of office/retail space for sale or lease. Why don't they just level that and open up the lot? Right behind it looks like something potentially historic that could use a makeover.

[bmust71]

I heard the other day that the saks site downtown will now include apartments... can someone confirm this?

[Urbana]

What is your source?

[photoLith]

I rode my bike past those houses that burned in Garfield this morning right after it happened and took some photos, such a shame. They were beautiful and the one that got burned down, probably from idiot kids was for sale and was getting restored.


DSC_5309 by photolitherland, on Flickr


DSC_5314 by photolitherland, on Flickr
I talked to the owner of that pink house on the right and he said hes actively restoring it but after walking around in the other two houses, they are pretty screwed, although could be restored if someone cared enough.

[daviderik]

Originally Posted by glowrock

What in the hell are you blathering about? I can't tell if you're being serious or you've lost it. I agree with you that Route 51 is a piece of crap, but I don't think the reason why there's not a much better road is lack of overall funding but rather the topography of the area. And now you want to build an elevated highway? I assume you're talking about taking over literally hundreds to thousands of properties? The 88/51 intersection is finally getting worked on now, for what it's worth. I would agree that 51 could really use an overhaul, but not likely in the way you envision.

And what the hell is with your little rant on "welfare"? Seriously???

Aaron (Glowrock)

Yes. Lets just put new black top down, rebuild the sidewalks and we're good.
Topography? Did you just say that? Yes it Runs along old saw mill creek in which that lovely road gets it's name. Of Corse it floods out some portions of the roadway in big rain storms. So elevated, defiantly not the way to go. I also love all the stop lights every few blocks. You can pause and look at all those beautiful properties like abandoned strip joints and old bars with mud splattered on the windows from cars passing by. Even though we have unlimited funds. On second thought. Lets not change a thing! (sorry if I'm blathering...again)

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by daviderik

Yes. Lets just put new black top down, rebuild the sidewalks and we're good.
Topography? Did you just say that? Yes it Runs along old saw mill creek in which that lovely road gets it's name. Of Corse it floods out some portions of the roadway in big rain storms. So elevated, defiantly not the way to go. I also love all the stop lights every few blocks. You can pause and look at all those beautiful properties like abandoned strip joints and old bars with mud splattered on the windows from cars passing by. Even though we have unlimited funds. On second thought. Lets not change a thing! (sorry if I'm blathering...again)

You are definitely blathering, daviderik. I never said to just lay some blacktop down, rebuild the sidewalks and everything's good. Obviously it needs to be made into more of a limited-access highway type of road, but likely not in the way you envision it, IMO. Same for Washington Road/Liberty Ave.. Same for Clairton Blvd./Rd... They are extremely major, busy thoroughfares without any real thought ever given to their traffic-handling capacities. Frankly, all it would really take would be to get rid of some of the useless traffic signals, readjust timing on the rest of them, add a few left and/or right turn lanes and I think traffic would flow MUCH more smoothly along many, if not all of them. No doubt improvements need to be made, but again, not an elevated highway the way you suggest.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[themaguffin]

Problem today we use too much public money on welfare and not enough on

Oh Jesus. You've got to be fucking kidding right?

[photoLith]

You mean corporate welfare right?

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by photoLith

I rode my bike past those houses that burned in Garfield this morning right after it happened and took some photos, such a shame. They were beautiful and the one that got burned down, probably from idiot kids was for sale and was getting restored.


DSC_5309 by photolitherland, on Flickr


DSC_5314 by photolitherland, on Flickr
I talked to the owner of that pink house on the right and he said hes actively restoring it but after walking around in the other two houses, they are pretty screwed, although could be restored if someone cared enough.

Ahh, those pictures break my heart. I've been really hoping that those townhouse would all get restored but now it's really unlikely. Sad.

[BrianTH]

If you haven't seen this before, it is an interesting read, even though it is getting dated at this point (it is over 10 years old now). By way of background, when the MFE was still a live issue, some groups opposed to the MFE's Pittsburgh branch came up with an alternative plan to improving transportation in the same general area. As you will see, it depends on a combination of upgraded/new "urban boulevards," T extensions, and an East Busway extension. I'm not sure the T extensions are likely in the near future, and BRT approaches are probably more feasible and arguably a better idea anyway in some cases (incorporating bus lanes into some of the urban boulevards in particular would be a very flexible approach). But in any event, I do think this general vision is very appealing and makes a lot of sense:

http://www.pennfuture.org/UserFiles/...plan_82702.pdf

[bmust71]

Originally Posted by Urbana

What is your source?

Well my dad works in the oliver building and he was talking to a guy from McKnight, asking about the hotel conversion in his building. My dad asked what was the deal with the saks site and the McKnight guy said that there was going to be retail, lots of parking, and apartments on top (reminds me of the Gardens site). This was about a week ago and I was just wondering if this info was announced to the public and set in stone.

[BrianTH]

There WERE apartments planned for the Saks site in their development proposal, then after they got picked by the URA to be the developer group they pulled out the apartments. Last I knew this bait-and-switch had not been formally approved by the URA but it appeared likely from what people were saying.

Edit: some links:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg....html?page=all

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...e-site-687970/

Edit# 2--Hold on, looks like the apartments are back! That's great news:

http://triblive.com/business/busines...#axzz2ZnJ1UZ7I

Apartments planned for Saks site

Developers have added apartments to their plans for the former Saks Department store site Downtown. “As part of the second phase of the project, we have decided, after tossing the idea around, to go ahead with residential units in a tower,” said Lucas Piatt, president and CEO of Millcraft Investments, which is partnering with McKnight Realty Partners. The first phase involves demolition of the existing Saks building at the corner of Smithfield Street and Oliver Avenue and building 25,000 square feet of retail space at street level with a 634-car garage on top of it. Demolition will begin in 2014 and the garage and retail space completed in 2015, Piatt said. In October, the Urban Redevelopment Authority selected the Millcraft-McKnight development team, stating it was the best of three proposals submitted. URA acquired the property for $4 million, after Saks closed ita store there in March 2012.

Edit #3: On further reflection, I don't like this talk of "phases". This issue may take a long time to resolve.

[BrianTH]

Planning Commission presentations for the upcoming meeting are available. These are always fun for development geeks:

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/sch...ion-31-270.pdf

I'm still bummed they want to tear down the historic building on the corner across from the Target in East Liberty. Still, the six-story building they want to put there would be yet another revolutionary project for the neighborhood:





Location of proposed project:

http://goo.gl/maps/ooXZ2