ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

This is my issue with the Campbellton Road projects. Instead of implementing 3 instances of projects along the same corridor I'd rather see legitimate BRT along other corridors and/or LRT/streetcar extensions to other under-served parts of town.

Also, how does the Clifton Corridor cost that much? Do we not own the ROW yet?

Because of the additional cost of tunneling. Here are the route alternatives still on the table for the Clifton corridor.

https://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedIma...%202017(1).jpg

https://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedIma...%202017(1).jpg

[Ric 0_0]

Whichever option ends up being chosen, I hope they do it correctly. If it is done well and has good ridership, it will be used as an example of good transit and it benefits. If it is done poorly (no priority,extremely overbudget, etc.) is will be used by politicians as an example of useless transit even though we know transit isn't useless. Im hoping for the first option. If this is done well, we might see even more support from politicians and residents for transit.

[ATLMidcity]

Originally Posted by L.ARCH

I'm all for equitable development and distribution of public funds to support all areas of our community, but[[/B] I have to say that $263 million light rail to Greenbriar mall seems like a BIG waste of money.. why not make it bus rapid transit for $21.7 million and put the rest of that into the Beltline???

Exactly.
When you espouse taking funds from a depressed low income area for redistribution to a more affluent area, it appears to be racially motivated. And before anyone mentions "playing the race card", which only seems to be mentioned when black people bring up race, white privilege is real.

So, ridership projections will aid in determining whether the Feds pony up funds for the most heavily used routes. Density is important, but a captivated ride-dependent population may very well trump the glitzy parts of Atlanta.

Besides, the southside of the metro gets up every day and commute to The Core and the northern suburbs for jobs. The projected ridership numbers will speak the truth on commute patterns.

If you really wanna know what sacrifices low income people make every day, catch a train on a weekend morning trip and noticed the thousands of black and brown faces hustling to get from the southern half of the metro to low wage jobs in the northern suburbs. Now juxtapose that with nearly empty trains coming from the northern suburbs into the city.

It's an eye opening experience.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

If you really wanna know what sacrifices low income people make every day, catch a train on a weekend morning trip and noticed the thousands of black and brown faces hustling to get from the southern half of the metro to low wage jobs in the northern suburbs. Now juxtapose that with nearly empty trains coming from the northern suburbs into the city.

It's an eye opening experience.

It has been a few years since I have commutes to Atlanta, but I would disagree with the empty trains from the north statement, but I agree with everything else you mentioned. I might also add that these projects usually double as a development tool. I would say that leaders hope that all the strip malls and barren lots along this new route will be the next ‘memorial drive’ corridor, which would a great area to build affordable housing. Building rail lines in established areas can limit development along a line since existing uses in many cases do not part ways for new development

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by montydawg

It has been a few years since I have commutes to Atlanta, but I would disagree with the empty trains from the north statement, but I agree with everything else you mentioned. I might also add that these projects usually double as a development tool. I would say that leaders hope that all the strip malls and barren lots along this new route will be the next ‘memorial drive’ corridor, which would a great area to build affordable housing. Building rail lines in established areas can limit development along a line since existing uses in many cases do not part ways for new development

I agree for the most part. The low density current nature of Campbellton Road also applies to portions of the Beltline. Putting in fixed transit should increase its attractiveness for new development as well as its ability absorb density.

And on the empty trains coming from North Springs and Doraville. That is definitely NOT the case.

[OTPandProud1974]

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...ns-marta-88358

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by OTPandProud1974

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...ns-marta-88358

I read it on the 11th and Leithead seems a bit of a dunce. Glad to see he isn't opposed to LRT, but ruling out HRT from the get-go is a sure-fire way to receive backlash. Hence the dunce comment.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

Because of the additional cost of tunneling.

I don't think I realized part of it would be in a tunnel.

As much as Lindbergh to Avondale would be nice, a big part of me wishes they'd tunnel under Druid Hills Golf Club and swing back down North Ave. That way it could have increased service to Candler Park, L5P, and Poncey-Highland. Or at least connect to Decatur instead of Avondale. While Avondale has room to grow, all the SFH neighborhoods around could really constrain its growth.

[3yonce]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I don't think I realized part of it would be in a tunnel.

As much as Lindbergh to Avondale would be nice, a big part of me wishes they'd tunnel under Druid Hills Golf Club and swing back down North Ave. That way it could have increased service to Candler Park, L5P, and Poncey-Highland. Or at least connect to Decatur instead of Avondale. While Avondale has room to grow, all the SFH neighborhoods around could really constrain its growth.

They could also just stay on the railroad ROW and head back to East Lake. It's not quite the activity center that Downtown Decatur is, but it would prevent the awkward bridges and tunnels in the middle of North Decatur Rd.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by 3yonce

They could also just stay on the railroad ROW and head back to East Lake. It's not quite the activity center that Downtown Decatur is, but it would prevent the awkward bridges and tunnels in the middle of North Decatur Rd.

My thought is it's just not a practical route unless you live on the existing corridor, which is not dense at all. Even if we connect to Avondale or East Lake, it's hardly practical except for commuters outside city limits. The reason why I enjoyed all the crosstown routes proposed from the more marta tax was because more riders across the city would have access points to high capacity transit options and would provide more transfer opportunities. Lindbergh to Avondale is pretty far removed from most constituents and leaves a pretty large service area gap. Or hell, tunnel from North ave to Emory and let the proposed BRT use it. Almost reminds me of the Pittsburgh busways.

[Street Advocate]

Map courtesy of killroy200 on reddit. Note, not an actual MARTA employee or map:

[smArTaLlone]

There are some good points in this commentary. I think its also one of the reasons that the streetcar is sparsely used in its current form. It needs to be grade separated. We really need to get this right before investing these $billions.

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/news-...etcar-mistake/

But there is a fatal flaw: the light rail infrastructure goes through one of the most congested parts of town, the downtown path of the Atlanta Streetcar.

Building a multi-billion-dollar light rail system around a bottleneck will choke the entire network. Trains can only go as fast as the slowest segment of the route. Currently, whenever a bad parking job interferes with the Streetcar tracks, the whole route is paralyzed for hours at time. Routing the new rail line through the Atlanta Streetcar will end up straining passengers on a daily basis. Crawling trains are not only frustrating for passengers, they are also expensive to operate.

[smArTaLlone]

https://www.myajc.com/blog/commuting...e6fxKtdwKfrJL/

A new plan to spend $2.5 billion in proceeds from the sales tax includes just a third of the 22-mile light-rail line envisioned for the beltline loop. But on Sunday afternoon, MARTA officials assured beltline supporters that final decisions on how to spend the money won’t be made until after a series of public hearings this summer.

“We hope to get a lot of feedback and ultimately take a recommendation to the Board of Directors in September or October,” MARTA CEO Jeffrey Parker told about 60 beltline supporters who gathered at Ormsby’s tavern on Howell Mill Road in Atlanta.


Parker offered no guarantees. But he said the recommended project list is “clearly changeable.

[smArTaLlone]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BjDbQ3bH...ged=midtownatl

[Sura]

Waiting for his naked animans

[Street Advocate]

I believe the mural will be a lot smaller than I expected. Looks like it’s limited to the southern facade, only.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

Building a multi-billion-dollar light rail system around a bottleneck will choke the entire network. Trains can only go as fast as the slowest segment of the route. Currently, whenever a bad parking job interferes with the Streetcar tracks, the whole route is paralyzed for hours at time. Routing the new rail line through the Atlanta Streetcar will end up straining passengers on a daily basis. Crawling trains are not only frustrating for passengers, they are also expensive to operate.

I strongly support as much grade separation as possible, but this paragraph from Atlanta Magazine doesn't make much sense. Nobody is going to be riding the streetcar from Emory all the way to Greenbriar mall. It's meant to connect up to existing MARTA heavy rail and the beltline, and people will just be riding it for short/medium distances. If downtown is a chokepoint, that won't paralyze the whole route. It won't affect someone going from Emory to Lindbergh, or from Piedmont Park to Krog Street Market, or Greenbriar Mall to Clark Atlanta. Almost all of the proposed expansion is grade separated. That being said, I do hope they spend a significant amount of money to improve the grade separation and reliability of the existing downtown streetcar route - and in fact money for this is in the proposal.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I strongly support as much grade separation as possible, but this paragraph from Atlanta Magazine doesn't make much sense. Nobody is going to be riding the streetcar from Emory all the way to Greenbriar mall. It's meant to connect up to existing MARTA heavy rail and the beltline, and people will just be riding it for short/medium distances. If downtown is a chokepoint, that won't paralyze the whole route. It won't affect someone going from Emory to Lindbergh, or from Piedmont Park to Krog Street Market, or Greenbriar Mall to Clark Atlanta. Almost all of the proposed expansion is grade separated. That being said, I do hope they spend a significant amount of money to improve the grade separation and reliability of the existing downtown streetcar route - and in fact money for this is in the proposal.

That's not necessarily true. It depends on how the routes are set up. Will the trains turn around at the HRT stations or continue in the same direction? If it's the latter then a bottleneck downtown will absolutely effect someone traveling from Lindbergh to Emory and any opposite direction of the examples you listed. That's assuming people will not use the system to travel in one direction only.

[Street Advocate]

Sniped this from that other discussion:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I am shouting from the roof tops WE need to spend 100% of our time arguing for MARTA expansion

Agreed, although Atlanta's lack of street grid and proximity between dense parts of town are bad for walkability/the ability to support transit stations. The connector running straight down the middle and all the active railroads constrain where and how we build new transit lines. To boot, the $2.5 bln we are spending, there's a big push for transit lines that are not dedicated lane or areas that have density.

I think we need to really get all the major players at the table and have a legitimate talk about transit expansions (both regional/commuter and local transit) as well as TOD initiatives to REALLY bolster the existing system and build toward appropriate destinations based off land development patterns. West End, Arts Center (relatively high ridership rates for MARTA) Ashby, Vine City, King, and Garnett (relatively lowridership rates for MARTA) can all handle a lot more density as is.

Likely controversial, but I do not believe all SFH or even midrise communities should be retained where they don't match the growth patterns and constrict the transportation system as a whole. Yes, we should retain historical and neighborhood aspects, but we should not permit super blocks, lack of street connectivity, or cul-de-sac enclaves to suffocate the city/metropolitan transportation system.

[MARTAisSmarta]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Likely controversial, but I do not believe all SFH or even midrise communities should be retained where they don't match the growth patterns and constrict the transportation system as a whole. Yes, we should retain historical and neighborhood aspects, but we should not permit super blocks, lack of street connectivity, or cul-de-sac enclaves to suffocate the city/metropolitan transportation system.

I am very much in agreement and also why I am so anti-parking. We should be focusing on creating a widespread transit network so that we can get anywhere in the city through a combination of rail, tram, bus, bike, and walking. Atlanta has a terrible history of trying to accommodate people who choose to live far away, and expect to have the same access to things as people who choose to live in high density areas. The core of the city is so underdeveloped, that there is no way someone can say that it's an issue of availability.