Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[bomberjet]

Regarding the utilities at Kapyong. The City has an obligation to provide services to the property. That's what being a City is. Sounds like the infrastructure is old and outdated, that's on the City.

If there needs to be an upsizing or significant expansion of current infra to handle the new development, the developer will need to pay for some of that, at least. Sounds like there is an agreement in place for that.

Similar situation as to what unfolded in Noth St. B. The neighbourhood north of the railway was supposed to be dense mid to high rise. But the City would incur significant costs to upgrade the infrastructure. Nobody wanted to pay so we ended up with single family homes.

[anthonyk]

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

That is pretty close to the plan for the Inner Ring Road, but I think yours makes more sense. It would make more sense for William R Clement to connect to Highway 330. Willian R Clement looks like it's supposed to connect to road 8N at the Perimeter (road to nowhere). I'm not exactly if Oakbank corridor will be a realignment of Hwy 15 or if it will just be a provincial Highway connecting to Chief Peguis (or Gunn Road). The Eastern Portion (Edward Shreyer and Plessis Road) would be a little hard. The portion between Fermor/ Abinoji intersection to Dugald, and Future CPT and Regent wouldn't be crazy hard because it's open land now, but the segment between Kernaghan and Regent/ ESP would be hard as there are businesses there. It would be like North Circle Drive in Saskatoon. I wonder if it's more logical to use Lagimodiere as the Eastern Leg? Moray would be a bit harder too as it goes through a neighbourhood too, but it still could be retrofitted. Unless the inner ring road isn't a Perimeter style ring road, but one with at grade intersections

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Biff

I would have to disagree with that. Springfield Rd has seen a massive decrease in traffic now that CP is built. All of the E/W traffic between Henderson and Lagimodiere is now in CP. Maybe not a benefit to motorists, but a huge benefit to the community in which the traffic travels through.

The Main to Brookside extension of CP would relieve a ton of traffic from Leila and Murray.

I was actually referring to expanding lanes of existing atrial routes (Kenaston). I'm sure a new thoroughfare from Point A to B would be beneficial to motorists, but increasing the size of an existing route will just make it more appealing to motorists, which tends to increase traffic on said route. At any rate, the city should have made Kenaston a limited access highway through Waverley West, up to the rail line just past Wilkes, and they blew that.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

That is pretty close to the plan for the Inner Ring Road, but I think yours makes more sense. It would make more sense for William R Clement to connect to Highway 330. Willian R Clement looks like it's supposed to connect to road 8N at the Perimeter (road to nowhere). I'm not exactly if Oakbank corridor will be a realignment of Hwy 15 or if it will just be a provincial Highway connecting to Chief Peguis (or Gunn Road). The Eastern Portion (Edward Shreyer and Plessis Road) would be a little hard. The portion between Fermor/ Abinoji intersection to Dugald, and Future CPT and Regent wouldn't be crazy hard because it's open land now, but the segment between Kernaghan and Regent/ ESP would be hard as there are businesses there. It would be like North Circle Drive in Saskatoon. I wonder if it's more logical to use Lagimodiere as the Eastern Leg? Moray would be a bit harder too as it goes through a neighbourhood too, but it still could be retrofitted. Unless the inner ring road isn't a Perimeter style ring road, but one with at grade intersections

One of my relatives had the original plans for the inner ring road decades ago. Initially, it was going to have Bishop Grandin built in the south as it is now, but when it became Kenaston, it would turn west just north of the rail tracks after kenaston Crossing (around Commerce Drive in the industrial park west of Kenaston), then eventually turn and become the Charleswood Parkway.

Once it crossed the river, it would link up to the Silver Ave extension, go to Sturgeon, where Sturgeon Road was going to become a main throughfare, than turn eastbound, and connect with the future CPT outside the city north of the airport. From there it was going to do its present route until it extended past Lagimodiere.

There was a natural corridor at the time west of Plessis, which the beltway would have used, but in the 90s, they designated the land north of Regent Avenue for "Tall Grass prairie." The city filled in the remaining corridor, including "Heartstone Drive," which was originally intented to be called "Terry Fox Drive." The road would have then linked up to Plessis, but the city built a residential area (Shady Shores Dr) to make that impossible.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

One of my relatives had the original plans for the inner ring road decades ago. Initially, it was going to have Bishop Grandin built in the south as it is now, but when it became Kenaston, it would turn west just north of the rail tracks after kenaston Crossing (around Commerce Drive in the industrial park west of Kenaston), then eventually turn and become the Charleswood Parkway.

Once it crossed the river, it would link up to the Silver Ave extension, go to Sturgeon, where Sturgeon Road was going to become a main throughfare, than turn eastbound, and connect with the future CPT outside the city north of the airport. From there it was going to do its present route until it extended past Lagimodiere.

There was a natural corridor at the time west of Plessis, which the beltway would have used, but in the 90s, they designated the land north of Regent Avenue for "Tall Grass prairie." The city filled in the remaining corridor, including "Heartstone Drive," which was originally intented to be called "Terry Fox Drive." The road would have then linked up to Plessis, but the city built a residential area (Shady Shores Dr) to make that impossible.

I can see where it was supposed to go because that neighbourhood is mismatched. Could they have done that on purpose to prevent building an urban expressway? But we have Lagimodiere already built and it does its job, in which stretches from end to end (South Perimeter to North Perimeter). But we have a better highway for that same function as ESP, the Perimeter Highway which can go 100KM/H for most of its distance

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Is that not their responsibility then? Or the federal government maybe? Does anyone know what was written into the agreement? How would this be a municipal/city responsibility?

Lots of questions here.

Remember when the city wanted to provide sewer and water services to centre port. Same should apply here.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

I can see where it was supposed to go because that neighbourhood is mismatched. Could they have done that on purpose to prevent building an urban expressway? But we have Lagimodiere already built and it does its job, in which stretches from end to end (South Perimeter to North Perimeter). But we have a better highway for that same function as ESP, the Perimeter Highway which can go 100KM/H for most of its distance

They certainly didn't do it on purpose. They had laid out a corridor for the ring road. For the life of me, I still do not understand why they designated a parcel of land as "Tall Grass Prairie" to be protected from obstruction. Like what is so great about this? I mean we have tall grass prairie everywhere outside the city.

Then they proceed on plans construct two bridges that cross the Seine River in South St Vital (Shorehill Drive and Warde Avenue). The ecosystem of the Seine is worth protecting more than a field, one would think.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The plan is actually for the Headingley bypass to connect with HWY 1 west somewhere near SFX. It would then connect to CCW->CPT->OBC and connect back into HWY 15 somewhere east of Dugald.

I think you may ahve misunderstood what I had posted. The CPT is not going to connect to CCW. It will end at Brookside Blvd. If one wants to continue West, they will have to turn at Brookside, and turn again at Inkster on to CCW.

I would not hold my breath for the whole Dugald/PTH #15 route. That is probably 2 decades away at the very least.

The west side is likely PR330->William Clement->Morray->Sturgeon Rd->HWY 6

I would not hold my breath for the province to build 330 up to Bishop Grandin. My guess is when Bishop Grandin is expanded to PTH # 3, they will not build it to connect with the Charleswood Parkway for at least 10-15 years. For 330, it will be longer. We ahve to keep in mind that the CPT expansion from Henderson to Lagimodiere was planned in the late 70s/early 80s, and was finally finished around 2011.

The east side is likely to be HWY 59S -> new road -> HWY 59N

I will be retired by the time that is constructed, At least 20 years.

As for the Oakbank Corridor, outside of Winnipeg it is likely one of the most badly needed roads in the province. It's current route (HWY 15) scores highly on the most dangerous rail crossing in the whole country. The volume it carries daily exceeded its use more than 20 years ago.

With all due respect, that is not even close to being true. Oakbank-Winnipeg highway corridor is low on the list of priorities in the Winnipeg CMA. The town of oakbank only has 5,000 residents, and there are two ways into Winnipeg that only lengthen the commute by 5-10 minutes. In terms of priority, Pipeline Road/Perimeter, McGillivary/Perimeter, Kenaston Blvd/perimeter ring road, and connecting Kenaston to PTH # 75, and St.Anne's/Perimeter all will likely take precedent, and these project will not be complete until 2040 at the earliest.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

With all due respect, that is not even close to being true. Oakbank-Winnipeg highway corridor is low on the list of priorities in the Winnipeg CMA. In terms of priority, Pipeline Road/Perimeter, McGillivary/Perimeter, Kenaston Blvd/perimeter ring road, and connecting Kenaston to PTH # 75, and St.Anne's/Perimeter all will likely take precedent, and these project will not be complete until 2040 at the earliest.

Yes, I agree with that. The Oakbank Corridor is a plan for the further future. And I don't ever think that the Oakbank corridor would even be a provincial Highway really, probably just a secondary Highway (or even unsigned). Hwy 15 is probably going to stay its current designation. Maybe eventually a Highway 15 twinning may happen and the Oakbank corridor may be needed less (for the time being). I have a prediction that a twinning may happen once an Interchange is built at the Perimeter and 15 (probably like Highway 3 at McGillvary, from city limits to just passed the South Perimeter. Therefore 15 would start at Plessis and twinned to Hwy 207, ultimately Anola, or depending on what the city decides)

[bomberjet]

This is where the beltway should've gone through the Regent/Plessis area. Yellow being the land dedicated to the beltway. The City sold the land knowing what is was for. Blame your councilor of the time.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

There was a natural corridor at the time west of Plessis, which the beltway would have used, but in the 90s, they designated the land north of Regent Avenue for "Tall Grass prairie." The city filled in the remaining corridor, including "Heartstone Drive," which was originally intented to be called "Terry Fox Drive." The road would have then linked up to Plessis, but the city built a residential area (Shady Shores Dr) to make that impossible.

If I recall, that strip of land had the highest concentration of that one particular species of tall grass prairie that is very rare compared to anywhere else in the city. Not sure if it's the entire province or the entire Canadian Prairies or American Midwest, but it's because it was something of those reasons they didn't build.

There's a similar reason why the proposed CPT extension between Main and McPhillips has a bit of a slightly sharper curve just on and west of Ferrier St. to avoid a particular section of wetland.

[Glenn99]

Is not time to put some tolls on these newer roads if the city can't finance them? Pretty radical concept for Manitoba but other jurisdictions do it quite successfully.

[bomberjet]

I know this isn't Perimeter related, and we circle back on these convos from time to time. But anyways.

The City plans to run the Ed Schreyer Parkway to dead end at Regent using the Bradley St right of way. Which is on the west side of the tall grass prairie.

The City really botched the whole thing, knowingly. If there were ever to be some type of freeway through here, they'd need to go overtop of Regent and either use regent or Pandora (or both) right of ways to get over to Plessis and the underpass. I believe this is what Anthony showed and what I showed in blue in my sketch.

Apparently the tall grass prairie is virgin and hasn't been developed or extensively worked. I'm not sure how representative it is of prairie that existed here pre-colonization.

CPT has frogs in the wetland area so they re-route the right of way around it. Hence the name Frog Plain. Only about 1% of the original wetland area remains, so they decided to save what they could.

[Biff]

To me, what they need to do with the CPT East segment is flip flop Plessis Rd and Edward Schryer Parkway. Run CPT up to Plessis and continue south to Hwy 1 where it could meet up with Bishop Grandin. Take the space reserved for Edward Shryer and turn it into the new arterial Rd that Plessis currently is.

I know Plessis is tight, but it is a 4 lane divided Rd. Get creative with a diamond overpass at Devonshire, Kildare/Transcona Blvd, Regent and Dugald and you have made your way through Transcona.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Biff

To me, what they need to do with the CPT East segment is flip flop Plessis Rd and Edward Schryer Parkway. Run CPT up to Plessis and continue south to Hwy 1 where it could meet up with Bishop Grandin. Take the space reserved for Edward Shryer and turn it into the new arterial Rd that Plessis currently is.

I know Plessis is tight, but it is a 4 lane divided Rd. Get creative with a diamond overpass at Devonshire, Kildare/Transcona Blvd, Regent and Dugald and you have made your way through Transcona.

I agree. Expressways tend to seperate neighbourhoods. That space currently reserved for Ed Schreyer Parkway could connect those neighbourhoods instead of seperate Since Plessis has an underpass since 2015(?), it would make sense to just upgrade Plessis now as it would be more cost effective. But since its a stroad, it would be hard to convert it into an expressway. Also, there would be more business of traffic down Plessis

[bomberjet]

What would've been the perfect solution was to use the Ravelston right of way, west of Plessis. But that got rolled into the development. Another lost opportunity. The City really has no plan, and was to be doing a ring road study., But that has been either pushed back or cancelled by now.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Biff

To me, what they need to do with the CPT East segment is flip flop Plessis Rd and Edward Schryer Parkway. Run CPT up to Plessis and continue south to Hwy 1 where it could meet up with Bishop Grandin. Take the space reserved for Edward Shryer and turn it into the new arterial Rd that Plessis currently is.

I know Plessis is tight, but it is a 4 lane divided Rd. Get creative with a diamond overpass at Devonshire, Kildare/Transcona Blvd, Regent and Dugald and you have made your way through Transcona.

I think the only way to make this work is to have Plessis be below grade and limit access to this stretch if we were to convert the idea of ESP to be on this route instead.

It's probably gonna make the city broke though, and probably not a viable solution anyway.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Glenn99

Is not time to put some tolls on these newer roads if the city can't finance them? Pretty radical concept for Manitoba but other jurisdictions do it quite successfully.

What for? The point of toll roads is that they provide a dedicated corridor from A to B. That means freeways and bridges/tunnels. Winnipeg has no freeways and we've already paid for everything that exists through our taxes.

If you want a toll road then you have to build a freeway. Good luck getting that through council.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

This is where the beltway should've gone through the Regent/Plessis area. Yellow being the land dedicated to the beltway. The City sold the land knowing what is was for. Blame your councilor of the time.

This was the original plan, before the city messed the beltway up/