NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[ILNY]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

Clearly, the majority of regulars here seem to be at odds on the height.
For NYguy to suggest that WTC 2 would be taller than the iconic Empire State Building is an opinion that many of us do not seem to share.

I agree with NYguy, spires/antennas/poles do not really add to a building's height. Rooftop measurement determines real height. So yes, WTC 2 as ugly as it is, will be higher than ESB.

[TechTalkGuy]

Antennas, Spires, Height.

The Inside Story of Two World Trade Center
• Video Link

[NYC2ATX]

WOW. I mean, if I didn't already like this design and this concept, that video would've sold me.

[Submariner]

The view from the memorial pool is it's strongest asset. Viewed from directly north or south (it's broad side) I still find it to be ill proportioned - setback on the boxes is too dramatic. It makes the building look too fat on the bottom, and too skinny up top.

Furthermore, if Ingels is so keen on the stacked box concept, he should have made more of an attempt to highlight each box as viewed from the WTC site. From that angle, it appears as if the building has no breaks in it - no boxes, if you will. That should have been a defining feature of it from all sides, not just two.

[TechTalkGuy]

I understand the concept of the video taking elements of Tribeca into the World Trade Center, but that was never a concept that won the competition many years ago for the redesign of the World Trade Center Complex.

The Wedge of Light concept is missing.
The slanted rooftop is gone.

What we have are a stack of boxes arranged together, much better than the concept of 56 Leonard Street.

[Yesh222]

Originally Posted by CityGuy87

The ESB's antenna was added onto the spire long after it was completed. I find it hard to officially count that antenna as part of the full height considering it's not an architectural element of the building. Say what you want about 1 WTC and BofA Tower but I count those spires because those buildings were designed with their respective spires and even the uncladded spire on 1 WTC has an architectural beacon at its very top while BofA's spire definitely fits with the aesthetics of its building's design.

Yes, but you missed our point. Neither one of us said that the building's official height is anything other than 1250 point. That doesn't change the fact that the perception of the building's height to those who see it is 1454 feet.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Yesh222

Yes, but you missed our point. Neither one of us said that the building's official height is anything other than 1250 point. That doesn't change the fact that the perception of the building's height to those who see it is 1454 feet.

I don't know what you're talking about, but as I said earier, many people think the top of the ESB is where the observation deck is. In fact, that's one of the reasons Makin didn't like the idea of 15 Penn rising so close, even though the ESB would actually be taller. But enough of that. We know what the height of the building is. We're not going to deal in a fantasy world where perceptions can vary greatly.



https://commercialobserver.com/2015/...-trade-center/

How Will Silverstein Fund 2 World Trade Center?

BY ELY RAZIN
NOV. 4, 2015

The new World Trade Center retains an air of mystery around its financing, among other things. The multibillion dollar financing of 2 World Trade Center is the latest subject of speculation and fascination, with the Wall Street Journal reporting this week that Silverstein was turning toward Chinese investors as part of the EB-5 program for part of this financing. But as for the rest? The tower’s financing future actually seems murkier now than it might have even a few months ago. This leaves observers to search for clues in WTC developer Silverstein Properties’ pattern of puzzling together multiple creative financing options.

Having anchor tenants of the caliber of Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. and 21st Century Fox—who’ve reportedly signed a letter of intent to be the anchor tenants of 2 World Trade Center—doesn’t hurt. Despite this, clarity eludes…and there are several reasons for this lack of clarity, including significant change at the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, a key player in financing the new World Trade Center complex. The likelihood of Port Authority financing has been greatly reduced in the wake of public scrutiny and reform efforts brought to the fore by the Bridgegate corruption scandal. So how is Silverstein going to come up with the estimated $4 billion needed to construct 2 WTC, an amount that reportedly includes $500 million from an equity partner or mezzanine debt investor?

Let’s make it clear that we do not actually know the answer. However, we do know quite a bit about prior financing done by Marty Burger and Larry Silverstein, so we’ll take the liberty of speculating. Of course, Messrs. Burger and Silverstein might opt for traditional financing, from lenders or funds. But the development firm’s executives certainly have a penchant for creative and alternative financing. With that in mind, we have set out a few possibilities that they could potentially use to secure financing for 2 WTC, as well as obstacles that could lie on that path:.....

Read the article for further speculation.

[CityGuy87]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don't know what you're talking about, but as I said earier, many people think the top of the ESB is where the observation deck is. In fact, that's one of the reasons Makin didn't like the idea of 15 Penn rising so close, even though the ESB would actually be taller. But enough of that. We know what the height of the building is. We're not going to deal in a fantasy world where perceptions can vary greatly.



https://commercialobserver.com/2015/...-trade-center/

How Will Silverstein Fund 2 World Trade Center?

BY ELY RAZIN
NOV. 4, 2015





Read the article for further speculation.

Considering that the Fox/News Corp lease seems to be all but confirmed at this point, I can't imagine that it will be difficult for 2 WTC to be fully financed after that deal is made official. I hope we get some sort of announcement before the year is up or at least early next year since I've heard (although not definite) that construction is set to resume in January.

[eleven=11]

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

WOW. I mean, if I didn't already like this design and this concept, that video would've sold me.

nice video but not sure if I dislike it or hate it.
the old design was much better.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by CityGuy87

Considering that the Fox/News Corp lease seems to be all but confirmed at this point, I can't imagine that it will be difficult for 2 WTC to be fully financed after that deal is made official.

He'll get it, I think that piece was more about Silverstein's methods of financing.



http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ne...own-manhattan/

[Prezrezc]

Two questions:

1. The proposal directly next to 50 West is the Broad Street one, no?

2. Is the height/massing difference between 200 and 175 really that great?

[CityGuy87]

Originally Posted by Prezrezc

Two questions:

1. The proposal directly next to 50 West is the Broad Street one, no?

2. Is the height/massing difference between 200 and 175 really that great?

1. I think NatGeo said it was the Trinity Place proposal which will probably come after 45 Broad Street which is now starting to move forward.

2. 3 WTC's height is a little off here. It looks to be exactly 1000ft here (using 4 WTC's height as a reference). Also it looks a bit skinny, should be slightly bulkier.

[Shwayze1994]

I really really really like the way it looks in those renderings. Hate on me, but I believe once this is built it will look great on the skyline.

[CityGuy87]

Originally Posted by Shwayze1994

I really really really like the way it looks in those renderings. Hate on me, but I believe once this is built it will look great on the skyline.

Yeah it doesn't bad at all, but in the rendering the cantilevers in look a bit uneven towards the bottom. Isn't each cantilever supposed to be the same width since their purpose is to display the news tickers underneath?

[Acer1]

I think the building offsets should have happened on BOTH sides of the building, and maybe 2 less 'boxes' as well. Trump tower in Chicago looks nice because of that design element.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Shwayze1994

I really really really like the way it looks in those renderings. Hate on me, but I believe once this is built it will look great on the skyline.

Haters gonna hate. This buildingwill be amazing, and will be the star of the new WTC complex. You heard it here first.

[artspook]

"the star of the complex" ? . . That's a provocative statement.
yeah - I heard it here first alright . . I just wish to God I could believe it . .
Oh how I wish . . . and I'm not "hating on" anybody for what they love in buildings . .
I have a great "eye" . . and consider myself a bona-fide architectural aficionado . .
and I'm sure you guys think that of yourselves as well . .
It just happens that Ingles' 200 Greenwich is one I happen to Hate more than any other.
I've already given my 10 reasons why this is a POS mistake (back aways in this thread).

But you guys keep on Lovin' it . . It's a gift - I suppose - to be able to love . .
whatever tall thing finally gets decided upon and built . . no matter what . .
as if the mighty architects & developers always give us what's best for our city . .
But I absolutely do not "hate on" anybody . . I love this open SSP site . . the pictures
that you guy contribute . . the wild crazy interaction and opinions that go down here.
That I can say . . is all good.

[jbermingham123]

btw what is that wider yellow supertall right in front of 50 greenwich there? I've never known of anything there

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by artspook

It's a gift - I suppose - to be able to love . .
whatever tall thing finally gets decided upon and built . . no matter what . .
as if the mighty architects & developers always give us what's best for our city . .

NO, the gift is to be able to love exactly what it is you love, regardless of whatever anyone else thinks. But a better gift is to be able to love something you have no clue about. I have yet to see anyone tell me exactly why Foster version of Tower 2 is better. And for good reason. There is hardly anything known about it, no renderings other han the outward appearance. Those are things most reserved for potential tenants, and its probably for good reason that thing couldn't get leased (other than the fact the New York has options). And yet, and yet, this newer verson may account for the largest single lease signing in WTC history. That speaks more to me than anything any of you critics might have to say about it.

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

btw what is that wider yellow supertall right in front of 50 greenwich there? I've never known of anything there

That's supposed to be a stand in for 125 Greenwich.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

That's supposed to be a stand in for 125 Greenwich.

no i meant the shorter, more squat one thats blocking the northern edge of 50 greenwich