How much of a "company town" is your city -- and is that good or bad?

[craigs]

I should mention that I cannot vouch for ChatGPT's results. I was just curious to see what it would come up with.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Where I'm at, in the Easton PA area or really, the whole Lehigh Valley area in PA, its a massive and I mean massive logistics, 3pl, warehousing and manufacturing hub. In terms of the NY CSA and its fringe proxies, it is a large logistics hub. And they continue to build warehouses all along the route 22 and I-78 corridor, all the way up to Bethel PA and Harrisburg. Word is, near Stroudsburg PA, big industrial park is in the works, we are talking several million square feet.

My wife works in logistics. The two biggest port-to-consumer intermodal logistics hubs are the SFV, east of LA (stuff arriving from Ports of LA/LB) and Western NJ/Eastern PA (stuff arriving from Ports of NY/NJ). That's why, especially since the pandemic, you see an explosion of warehouses east of LA and west of NY. All the crap we import makes its way into the interior. Lehigh Valley is crazy with warehouses and intermodal.

[DCReid]

I can't think of any US company towns in the current times. They seemed to have been more prominent before the 1970s when manufacturing was a large part of the economy. I'm thinking places like Rochester, Flint, Gary. But their fortunes faded as their companies faded. Wiki says Pullman in Chicago was a company town. I guess some of the rural areas may have company towns such as some of the large auto plants in the south and midwest rural areas. There seem to be many industry towns, and their fortunes can go either way with the boom and bust of the industry if they have too much of the industry. I'm thinking Houston, San Jose, and Detroit are prime examples. If you consider a university akin to a 'company', those seems that best 'company' towns in terms of economies and desirability. Places like Ann Arbor, MI, Athens GA, etc.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Crawford

My wife works in logistics. The two biggest port-to-consumer intermodal logistics hubs are the SFV, east of LA (stuff arriving from Ports of LA/LB) and Western NJ/Eastern PA (stuff arriving from Ports of NY/NJ). That's why, especially since the pandemic, you see an explosion of warehouses east of LA and west of NY. All the crap we import makes its way into the interior. Lehigh Valley is crazy with warehouses and intermodal.

The main logistics hub out here would be in the Inland Empire, especially San Bernardino County, which is indeed east of LA. The San Fernando Valley is almost entirely within the city of Los Angeles and is northwest of downtown and due north of the Westside.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by JManc

Houston is tied to an industry more so than a handful of companies but if one (especially a major or producer) gets sick, they all sneeze. Luckily the economy is much more diversified that it was so less dramatic boom and bust cycles.

Yes...I can think of other areas, especially medical and medical research, petrochemicals, banking and finance (a lot of international), science and technology, construction (of course), and the Port of Houston itself. I'm probably forgetting some. I've had trouble finding oil and gas broken out separately, but it has to be a large part of the economy, just not the percentage it was as recently as the 80s.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by edale

LA is probably too big to be a 'company/industry town', but the entertainment industry certainly dominates local culture at least. When I meet people, I tend to assume they work in the industry in some capacity until told otherwise. It's pretty dominant, and when you think about all the people employed by spinoff industries, it's hard to deny the influence the entertainment industry has here. As an anecdote, when the writer and actor strikes were going on last year, the yoga studio I go to, as well as several coffee shops/cafes near me were running discounts for WGA and SAG/AFTRA members.

There are, of course, huge clusters of industry not associated with entertainment including a large aerospace industry, the port and all the industrial jobs down by the harbor, medicine, even academia given the many universities in and around the city-- all employ lots of people and have nothing to do with the entertainment industry. That said, I think few people think of these industries when they think of LA.

The first time I went to L.A., I was surprised at the refineries next to LAX. I don't know what percentage of the economy that is, though.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I can't think of any US company towns in the current times. They seemed to have been more prominent before the 1970s when manufacturing was a large part of the economy. I'm thinking places like Rochester, Flint, Gary. But their fortunes faded as their companies faded. Wiki says Pullman in Chicago was a company town. I guess some of the rural areas may have company towns such as some of the large auto plants in the south and midwest rural areas. There seem to be many industry towns, and their fortunes can go either way with the boom and bust of the industry if they have too much of the industry. I'm thinking Houston, San Jose, and Detroit are prime examples. If you consider a university akin to a 'company', those seems that best 'company' towns in terms of economies and desirability. Places like Ann Arbor, MI, Athens GA, etc.

I think the only company towns nowadays are those little towns in Iowa with a meat-processing plant. You hear about the plant closing and the town losing its only employment center. Something similar can probably be found in rural areas around the country.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I can't think of any US company towns in the current times. They seemed to have been more prominent before the 1970s when manufacturing was a large part of the economy. I'm thinking places like Rochester, Flint, Gary. But their fortunes faded as their companies faded. Wiki says Pullman in Chicago was a company town. I guess some of the rural areas may have company towns such as some of the large auto plants in the south and midwest rural areas. There seem to be many industry towns, and their fortunes can go either way with the boom and bust of the industry if they have too much of the industry. I'm thinking Houston, San Jose, and Detroit are prime examples. If you consider a university akin to a 'company', those seems that best 'company' towns in terms of economies and desirability. Places like Ann Arbor, MI, Athens GA, etc.

Peoria, IL is still very much a company town for Caterpillar. It's economy is based around that company and the ancillary support services and niche manufacturing concerns. I think Decatur is still like this to a lesser extent - although ADM HQ relocated to Chicago and Decatur is in a more deteriorated state. If I recall Caterpillar made rumblings about relocating to Chicago a few years ago and next thing I heard the FBI was raiding files and I never did any work for them after that for whatever reason.

[Centropolis]

When I was a kid - different sections of metro St. Louis were sort of company "towns" in the sense that lots of people worked for a particular company also lived in a particular area. This was the case with Boeing/McDonnell Douglas HQ, Ford (St. Louis was the number 2 auto manufacturing city for a while), Lambert Airport in North County, and so on depending on the section of the metro (Anheuser-Busch HQ, Corvette plan, Dodge plant, Purina HQ, ATT HQ, etc etc). These were for both blue collar and white collar folks since so many HQs as well as massive manufacturing plants were here.

With the restructuring and relocation of corporations with where they do their manufacturing and have HQs + the passing of time this isn't really true anymore. I work for the HQ of a local company now and people commute in from the four winds including over state lines (which seems to be more and more common).

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

If I recall Caterpillar made rumblings about relocating to Chicago a few years ago and next thing I heard the FBI was raiding files and I never did any work for them after that for whatever reason.

Cat did move their c-suite HQ to suburban Chicago (Deerfield) years ago, and then during the pandemic, they moved the HQ office down to suburban Dallas.

So Peoria isn't a traditional company town anymore now that the top execs all live down in Texas.



But John Deere is still HQ'ed in Moline, IL (Quad Cities), for now anyway.....

It's one of the last two F500 HQ'ed in IL that isn't in Chicagoland (State Farm in Bloomington, IL is the other, for now anyway.....)

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Cat did move their c-suite HQ to suburban Chicago (Deerfield) years ago, and then during the pandemic, they moved the HQ office down to suburban Dallas.

So Peoria isn't a traditional company town anymore now that the top execs all live down in Texas.

Ok, yeah I have completely lost touch with Caterpillar then...they haven't been a client of mine for years now and I no longer work for the same company. That's crazy - I see they actually did move to Deerfield in 2017 and of course I completely missed the move to Dallas.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by craigs

The main logistics hub out here would be in the Inland Empire, especially San Bernardino County, which is indeed east of LA. The San Fernando Valley is almost entirely within the city of Los Angeles and is northwest of downtown and due north of the Westside.

Sorry, I meant IE. Yeah, out by Ontario, San Bernardino and the like. SFV isn't a logistics hub. I meant to write SGV but that isn't right either, it's further out.

The warehouse infrastructure by the ports was already super-congested pre-Covid, so during the Covid e-commerce boom, the IE really exploded with giant warehouses and logistics centers. The same general trend on the East Coast, where the congested North Jersey warehouse/logistics market led to the Eastern PA boom. It costs a crazy amount to store a truck or intermodal car overnight near LA/LB ports or NY/NJ ports.

LA is stereotyped as Hollywood, and it isn't untrue, but people discount the massive port/trade/intermodal economy. It's enormous. Asia's exports mostly travel through there.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

I think the only company towns nowadays are those little towns in Iowa with a meat-processing plant. You hear about the plant closing and the town losing its only employment center. Something similar can probably be found in rural areas around the country.

Yeah, if we're talking little rural towns, Arizona has this for copper mining still. Little towns of less than 10 or even 5,000 people like Morenci, Kearney, Bagdad, and to a lesser extent. Globe are all legitimate copper mining company towns, Freeport-McMoran and ASARCO being the companies.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

Peoria, IL is still very much a company town for Caterpillar. It's economy is based around that company and the ancillary support services and niche manufacturing concerns. I think Decatur is still like this to a lesser extent - although ADM HQ relocated to Chicago and Decatur is in a more deteriorated state. If I recall Caterpillar made rumblings about relocating to Chicago a few years ago and next thing I heard the FBI was raiding files and I never did any work for them after that for whatever reason.

Caterpillar did relocate the HQ to Chicago years ago, and then 2-3 years ago relocated the HQ to Dallas.

[Antares41]

Although not a single company town (at least not yet) Wichita, Kansas, is heavily invested in the aircraft construction industries. I don't believe there is any single company that dominates; Spirit may come close. There are a lot of Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers in the region intimately join to Boeing. I've visited that city many times.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by craigs

I should mention that I cannot vouch for ChatGPT's results. I was just curious to see what it would come up with.

Thanks for the detail. Their "entertainment industry" numbers are surprisingly high, and I wonder if they're counting apples and describing oranges.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

DC is less of a company town than people assume.

I won't say it's not one at all. Don't come at me, the three of you who will be offended by this statement. Obviously the federal government is the anchor, and you can draw some kind of connection between the federal government and a lot of the other things that have grown or relocated here. The federal government absolutely stabilizes the economy, and there would be an unprecedentedly gigantic recession here if it ever left. That's all true.

But the image of DC as a federal city with little else going on that accurately permeated the national consciousness from ~1850 to 1950 isn't remotely accurate anymore. It's a pretty dynamic city these days. What does remain true is that it's still overwhelmingly white-collar and service-oriented. There's no industry. No meaningful manufacturing or port. But the white-collar jobs are vastly more diverse than just the government and lobbying sectors.

I absolutely agree. As you note, the federal government is still the most important employer but the DC-area also has sizable higher education, real estate, and finance sectors, as well as a handful of Fortune 500 companies.

[edale]

Originally Posted by mhays

Thanks for the detail. Their "entertainment industry" numbers are surprisingly high, and I wonder if they're counting apples and describing oranges.

Your comment about 'actors and camera guys' revealed that you might not know much about the entertainment industry. It's not just actors, directors, and camera guys who are employed by the entertainment industry. The big studios are just like any other corporation, meaning they employ countless people who aren't on the creative side of things, but allow the business to function, such as accountants, HR and payroll people, marketing and advertising teams, secretaries, legal, PR, etc.

Beyond these more corporate roles, there are tons of people who work on sets doing things like set design, hair and makeup, costume design, video editing, sound tech. I work across the street from a catering company that makes the vast majority of their money from providing craft services to sets, and when production stopped due to the strikes, they were hurting bad so they pivoted and opened a little storefront cafe. There's an immense ripple effect from the entertainment industry, and it probably is a more significant than ripple effect from most other industries.

Lastly, I think people sometimes view the entertainment industry as just being film and TV, but there's much more to it. Of course there's also the music industry, which is largely headquartered in LA, but also things like video games and VR, which LA has become a huge hub of too. All of these things are part of the wider entertainment industry.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

I do think we're more diversified, probably enough that I wouldn't call us a "company/industry town" in the spirit of the thread. But we're still sprawling, and I still think we'd be hurt more than average in another real estate crisis.

This. Phoenix is on a hell of a lot better economic footing than it was 15-16 years ago but with house prices being ridiculous, would still get hurt by another real estate downtown. I live in notoriously expensive Flagstaff and even I couldn't afford to buy anywhere in Phoenix that isn't at least 30 miles from Downtown.

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Yeah, if we're talking little rural towns, Arizona has this for copper mining still. Little towns of less than 10 or even 5,000 people like Morenci, Kearney, Bagdad, and to a lesser extent. Globe are all legitimate copper mining company towns, Freeport-McMoran and ASARCO being the companies.

Clifton (Morenci?) might be the biggest example. Flagstaff might've once been a company town (heavy emphasis on "town") for lumber but there was never really one dominant lumber company and almost all of the mills closed down decades ago.

I just got back from an extended stay in Columbus, Ohio. As a municipal government employee, that city never ceases to amaze me in how balanced it is between education, private industry and government. Sprawl isn't as bad there as in Phoenix, but still a huge concern (good god, Delaware County...). Infrastructure (how long will it be until the 70/71 interchange is completed!?) and lack of pubnlic transit besides busses is a concern, though.

[iheartthed]

Here's my unscientific categorization of the 30 largest metros into strong, weak, or industry agnostic. Strong means a slowdown in a specific sector would be very damaging to the local economy (the types of places that would catch the flu if the industry caught a cold). Weak means a slowdown in a particular industry would be a drag, but there is the presence of another sector to take up some of the slack. Agnostic means there doesn't seem to be a dominant sector where an industry slowdown would have outsized effect (or I just don't know enough about the city to put it in another category).

Strong
Houston
Washington
San Francisco
Detroit
Orlando
Charlotte
Austin
Las Vegas

Weak
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Dallas
Boston
Seattle

Agnostic
Atlanta
Philadelphia
Miami
Phoenix
Minneapolis
Tampa
San Diego
Denver
Baltimore
St. Louis
San Antonio
Portland
Pittsburgh
Sacramento
Cincinnati