NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[Hemeroscopium]

Many don't understand that Ingels design is much more elaborated than Foster's.
The building steps at an angle parallel to the incline of 1 wtc:how can it looks like it's going to topple over onto it!??...
(Especially from the west side!)

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Hemeroscopium

Ok.he should be more courteous and respectful sometimes; he is stubborn and close minded,politically incorrect and everything you want but he is a true,a pure,a magnificent New Yorker!
He loves his city as a lifetime beloved woman,with passion and lyricism.
I guess he is not Anglo Saxon as he loves verbal provocation and fighting
I admit he is a bit outdated but at least he is not formatted and globalized.Imo he should have his own blog and find his audience among people who simply call things for what they are:is it stupid to mention chinese polish sausages?lol!
No dudes! JR is not a ass licker!
Only in New York lads!

I think he adds a fun factor to the forum plus he is an insider. Funny though because I was in the city two weeks ago and I was like, damn, this is the age of ramses. I do like the non-politically correct element to him as I hate those that are politically correct. As the great George Carlin once said, "the pussification of man". And that's really what this society has become. Bunch of sensitive wimps. Eh, but that's the New Yorker attitude I guess with JR. Speaks his mind, and will tell you off when necessary. Also, half of the time he is joking but people nowadays can't take jokes; even if harsh. I could go on, but maybe thats a topic for a thread. Why has society become so sensitive?

But anyways, lets enjoy this tower for what it is. No sense in despair. Look at what we are getting, and in a sense, most around the world would be happy. Its just NYC has such a high standard that something that would become an icon in most cities is way below the passing score for NYC. Thats what a city of great architecture does to designs. It eats them up, and curb stomps them if they are not a 100% epic. Lets not forget that its 1,340 feet. This will be a monolith with its dimensions.

[Hemeroscopium]

...well said!!

[Vertical_Gotham]

@chris08876

[baseball1992]

In my opinion this tower would look nicer without the cantilevering boxes.

[Vertical_Gotham]

My favorite element to Foster's was the Diamonds and the cantilever is my favorite part of Bjarke's design.

Getting rid of the cantilevers would be like getting rid of the diamonds of Foster's imho

[baseball1992]

Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham

My favorite element to Foster's was the Diamonds and the cantilever is my favorite part of Bjarke's design.

It just seems off to me whenever I see it. They showed different angles of the buildings render and my favorite was this one that gave an idea of what it would look like without the cantilevering portion visible.

Sometimes less is more, and for me having the boxes aligned looks nicer.

[Vertical_Gotham]

^^ it would totally take away the awe factor for me.

[The New York Lion]

This tower is stunning, IMO. J.R. has done a good job of putting this tower in context with the rest of American culture. This is a very daring desire for our conservative skyscraper culture.

As J.R. has stated, all American cities not named New York would be going nuts over this design. This would be the tallest building built in Chicago in 40 years. It would surpass U.S. Bank in LA by 300 feet. It would surpass the Transamerica Pyramid in SF by 500 feet.

Plus, this is only one of many supertalls under construction or proposed.

I look forward to reading more J.R. posts when his suspension is lifted!



This is the age of Ramses!!

[The New York Lion]

Originally Posted by JR Ewing

If this were rising in Chi, they'd be beating their Polish sausages.

[King Kill 'em]

Originally Posted by The New York Lion

This tower is stunning, IMO. J.R. has done a good job of putting this tower in context with the rest of American culture. This is a very daring desire for our conservative skyscraper culture.

As J.R. has stated, all American cities not named New York would be going nuts over this design. This would be the tallest building built in Chicago in 40 years. It would surpass U.S. Bank in LA by 300 feet. It would surpass the Transamerica Pyramid in SF by 500 feet.

Plus, this is only one of many supertalls under construction or proposed.

I look forward to reading more J.R. posts when his suspension is lifted!



This is the age of Ramses!!

As much as I hate to admit it he's right. I would be beating my polish sausage if this building was coming to LA. But for New York though it doesn't work as well considering the outdoor space won't be usable for several months each year. The original design is better looking and has a more New York feel to it.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by King Kill 'em

As much as I hate to admit it he's right. I would be beating my polish sausage if this building was coming to LA. But for New York though it doesn't work as well considering the outdoor space won't be usable for several months each year. The original design is better looking and has a more New York feel to it.

I agree that the original design is much better, but unfortunately it's not gonna happen. But the balconies will be usable 8 or 9 months out of the year.

[intheburg]

When the BIG design was first released, I hated it. A few days later I started coming around. Now, I love it.

I completely agree this building challenges our conservative architectural aesthetic in NYC. To be sure, prior to the BIG design, we THOUGHT we embraced creativity. For example, all (or most) of my friends have embraced the recent creativity apparent in newer low and mid-rise buildings on the west side, in midtown south, and in parts of brooklyn. But the highrise and supertall aesthetic is ingrained and we tend to want certain rules to be followed, even in otherwise highly creative towers. For example, for all the creativity and wonderfulness of 53w53--a building I'm very much looking forward to--it follows the generally expected pattern of tapering toward a smaller crown, and it is therefore pleasing and satisfying for the same reasons 111 w 57th is pleasing and satisfying even as we say it is new and different. We tend to want variations of ESB and Chrysler, and why not? They are awesome! And so, of course, for the same reasons, many of us were pleased with the aesthetic of the foster design for WTC2.

Into this self-satisfied world the BIG design for WTC2 dropped like a cannonball into our reflecting pool, shocking most of us, and on sacred ground no less. It's gargantuan and unruly. It awkwardly tilts. From some perspectives it seems to almost get bigger as it goes up, with seemingly far more square footage above 1,000 feet than WTC1 has above 1,000 feet. It's bizarre and challenging.....and it is GREAT. And perhaps one of the reasons it is so great is precisely what bothers many of us: it doesn't immediately seem to belong in New York. It's other-worldly. It radically altars the skyline at precisely the location that we expected tradition.

I have come to believe in recent weeks that if it is built out right, with tremendous attention to detail and the right use of the right building materials, including at street level, this building will be loved. Along with Hudson Yards, it will usher in a whole new aesthetic that, with any luck, will complement and build upon the old.

[chris08876]

It would be cool if tower two could have some sort of open public deck. I know its probably overkill with all the decks currently or opening in the future (1 Vandy, 30 Hudson), but still, would be neat and a good income source because observation decks are cash cows with the 58 million visitors a year that visit.

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by intheburg

When the BIG design was first released, I hated it. A few days later I started coming around. Now, I love it.

I completely agree this building challenges our conservative architectural aesthetic in NYC. To be sure, prior to the BIG design, we THOUGHT we embraced creativity. For example, all (or most) of my friends have embraced the recent creativity apparent in newer low and mid-rise buildings on the west side, in midtown south, and in parts of brooklyn. But the highrise and supertall aesthetic is ingrained and we tend to want certain rules to be followed, even in otherwise highly creative towers. For example, for all the creativity and wonderfulness of 53w53--a building I'm very much looking forward to--it follows the generally expected pattern of tapering toward a smaller crown, and it is therefore pleasing and satisfying for the same reasons 111 w 57th is pleasing and satisfying even as we say it is new and different. We tend to want variations of ESB and Chrysler, and why not? They are awesome! And so, of course, for the same reasons, many of us were pleased with the aesthetic of the foster design for WTC2.

Into this self-satisfied world the BIG design for WTC2 dropped like a cannonball into our reflecting pool, shocking most of us, and on sacred ground no less. It's gargantuan and unruly. It awkwardly tilts. From some perspectives it seems to almost get bigger as it goes up, with seemingly far more square footage above 1,000 feet than WTC1 has above 1,000 feet. It's bizarre and challenging.....and it is GREAT. And perhaps one of the reasons it is so great is precisely what bothers many of us: it doesn't immediately seem to belong in New York. It's other-worldly. It radically altars the skyline at precisely the location that we expected tradition.

I have come to believe in recent weeks that if it is built out right, with tremendous attention to detail and the right use of the right building materials, including at street level, this building will be loved. Along with Hudson Yards, it will usher in a whole new aesthetic that, with any luck, will complement and build upon the old.

I couldn't disagree more for the simple reason that good design has good answers to why they made certain design choices and BIGs rationale is completely and utterly contrived. I mean according to Bjarke he's taking all these boxes that are the approximate size and shape of groups of buildings in Tribeca and stacking them with cantilevers (to better define said boxes I assume) as a way to relate the Financial District to Tribeca. At the end of the day you have to ask whether or not these attempts at resolving a design problem are successful. So is this successful at bridging the gap between Tribeca and the Financial District? No. Is that even a real problem? No. Is it a little arrogant and unrealistic to think you're design of one building is going to visually bridge two neighborhoods? Yes.

I suspect that the truth here is that he had a client with no understanding of design who wanted something unique. So they ended up with awful proportions 'cool' cantilevers and kitschy news tickers that nobody will wants to look up and read.

In any case let's not pretend that this contrived monstrosity is going to change our aesthetics... unless your talking about it as a lesson of what not to do.

[CoolCzech]

Originally Posted by baseball1992

It just seems off to me whenever I see it. They showed different angles of the buildings render and my favorite was this one that gave an idea of what it would look like without the cantilevering portion visible.

Sometimes less is more, and for me having the boxes aligned looks nicer.

That actually is exactly how the building will look from this vantage point. The edge of the building facing the memorial doesn't cantilever.

[Cynicism]

.

[Derchin]

Originally Posted by Cynicism

Disappointed on how things quickly turned out. Foster's design was truly a gem in the whole complex and "completed" the Downtown skyline. It even restored it, now it will be sorely missed if this thing does get built.

Agreed.

[King Kill 'em]

One thing that I think would make it look better is if the edges didn't hang over and they were cut off. That would make it look similar to this one highrise in London which I don't know the name of.

[mt_climber13]

Unfortunately this will be known as Red Neck Tower if Fox News does move in. Such a waste for the most significant tower on New York's skyline. Reminds me of the New York Banner in The Fountainhead.