Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I have no idea what kind of structural condition the Wilkes interchange is in, but as a driver I can say that the interchange really does seem obsolete and not up to current standards, which is no surprise considering it was designed as a country-highway interchange a good 50 years ago. Relaxing the tight turns and curves would do wonders there.

Wilkes/100 is currently the most dangerous interchange on in Manitoba and desperately needs proper merge and exit lanes. South bound traffic has a short exit on the blind side of the overpass and west to north bound drops traffic from a hare-pin turn immediately into the stream of 100 km/h traffic. Pushing the hare-pin further south with a long run up would help as would extending the north bound exit to give exiting traffic an increased deceleration period.

[Biff]

Just for some interesting info.....the ramp dirt currently being piled up at the North Perimeter and 59 is from the Plessis underpass excavation.

[cllew]

I just caught the tail end of something on CJOB earlier this week and Jeff Browaty (NK Councillor) was saying that as far as he knows the perimeter will be raised from 59 to just before Henderson Highway.

The reason for this he was saying is that instead of having the Pioneer Greenway trail bridge cross over the highway and cause height restrictions the trail will go under at grade

[esquire]

^ That actually makes good sense. Why not also let East St. Paul run Raleigh and/or Gateway under the Perimeter and there you go, Walmart access problem solved.

[bomberjet]

Interesting news. I drove by the site on the weekend and noticed there was no packer on site. So had me wondering what was going on there. Just a dozer and a shiter.

So 101 will be raised. I guess there are no other overpasses of the Perimeter, come to think of it. It always goes overtop. Makes perfect sense.

With the Raleigh/Gateway thing. Those trucks need access to 101, or some other highway. The future flyover that was planned over the Perimeter would not connect to 101. They'd still need to be using residential streets in ESP to get into the walmart, etc. Truck routes. I guess they could take raleigh north to the PR 202/Lag intersection. That could work. There are no houses directly on raleigh. And seeing as it's planned as a collector/arterial, that works for me. Plus, it's in ESP, who is pushing the whole thing. Crisis averted. Now get the developer to chip in for the bridge construction and we're flying!

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That actually makes good sense. Why not also let East St. Paul run Raleigh and/or Gateway under the Perimeter and there you go, Walmart access problem solved.

That is being considered by the municipality and the developer.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by cllew

I just caught the tail end of something on CJOB earlier this week and Jeff Browaty (NK Councillor) was saying that as far as he knows the perimeter will be raised from 59 to just before Henderson Highway.

The reason for this he was saying is that instead of having the Pioneer Greenway trail bridge cross over the highway and cause height restrictions the trail will go under at grade

Good! No hills to climb.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Wilkes/100 is currently the most dangerous interchange on in Manitoba and desperately needs proper merge and exit lanes. South bound traffic has a short exit on the blind side of the overpass and west to north bound drops traffic from a hare-pin turn immediately into the stream of 100 km/h traffic. Pushing the hare-pin further south with a long run up would help as would extending the north bound exit to give exiting traffic an increased deceleration period.

If I recollect correctly, Wilkes/100 wasn't one of the original interchanges. It was built much later in response to a public outcry after a bad accident that took place at the intersection that preceded it. Maybe late 70s. It seemed to go up in a big hurry so maybe that is why it isn't very good.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

If I recollect correctly, Wilkes/100 wasn't one of the original interchanges. It was built much later in response to a public outcry after a bad accident that took place at the intersection that preceded it. Maybe late 70s. It seemed to go up in a big hurry so maybe that is why it isn't very good.

Are you possibly thinking of the Roblin/100 interchange? The reason I ask is because the Wilkes/100 interchange is fairly old...I vaguely recall reading that it dates back to around the time the Perimeter was built in the early 60s or thereabouts. It would have been an important structure given that it crosses the CN main line.

The nearby Roblin interchange aligns with the late 70s timeframe you mentioned, though.

[cllew]

Frontier center for public policy in 2006 produced a report on the Perimiter highway
http://www.fcpp.org/pdf/FB042Disaste...tember2006.pdf

and this was one of the findinging in the report:

Placing traffic signals on a divided highway forces vehicles to frequently brake from high speeds. This doubles the incidence of fatalities while increasing pollution and gasoline consumption. On average, a vehicle must pass through a traffic signal every 7.8 km on the round trip journey around Winnipeg’s Perimeter Highway

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cllew

Frontier center for public policy in 2006 produced a report on the Perimiter highway
http://www.fcpp.org/pdf/FB042Disaste...tember2006.pdf

and this was one of the findinging in the report:

Placing traffic signals on a divided highway forces vehicles to frequently brake from high speeds. This doubles the incidence of fatalities while increasing pollution and gasoline consumption. On average, a vehicle must pass through a traffic signal every 7.8 km on the round trip journey around Winnipeg’s Perimeter Highway

I buy the safety argument but not the gasoline consumption one. If reducing gasoline consumption is really the goal, then shouldn't the FCPP be aiming for a denser, less auto-reliant city?

I'd wager that most people driving on the Perimeter have voluntarily accepted a relatively high rate of fuel consumption relative to the rest of the regional population. I don't know that interchanges will really have much of an impact on that, or at least not enough to justify the costs on that basis.

[cllew]

I guess if your a trucker every bit of milage you can get helps and it must be a pain to have to slow down and potentiently have to stop at a signalized intersection almost every 8 KM on the south permimiter.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So 101 will be raised. I guess there are no other overpasses of the Perimeter, come to think of it. It always goes overtop. Makes perfect sense.

The over/under on the Perimeter is nearly evenly split.

Currently we have:

Over (7)
Lag north
Henderson
CentrePort
Portage
Wilkes
Pembina
HWY 1

Under (5)
Main
McPhillips
Route 90
Roblin
Lag south

Any time a rail crossing is involved it is over.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

I buy the safety argument but not the gasoline consumption one. If reducing gasoline consumption is really the goal, then shouldn't the FCPP be aiming for a denser, less auto-reliant city?

Even if there were no cars, the same applies for trucks.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The over/under on the Perimeter is nearly evenly split.

Currently we have:

Over (7)
Lag north
Henderson
CentrePort
Portage
Wilkes
Pembina
HWY 1

Under (5)
Main
McPhillips
Route 90
Roblin
Lag south

Any time a rail crossing is involved it is over.

You're right, brain fart on my end. I used to drive the North perimeter everyday for 10 years. Not sure how I could forget that!

[harls]

If Winnipeg had Calgary-type growth, do you think they'd be fast-tracking some perimeter improvements? (new residents, extra tax dollars, NDP wet dream?)

(I really like rrskylar's SpeNDP thing.. I think he should patent that..)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by harls

If Winnipeg had Calgary-type growth, do you think they'd be fast-tracking some perimeter improvements? (new residents, extra tax dollars, NDP wet dream?)

In a situation like that, there would be no choice. Something would have to be done... the Perimeter was pretty impressive by the standards of the 1960s when it was built, but it hasn't really kept up with growth in the region. Some stretches are quite busy and the at-grade intersections are downright dangerous.

Biff did point out that there finally are plans to improve things, though - at least with respect to the south Perimeter. Just getting the fixes on his list done will make a big difference, but who knows how long it will take to get it all done. It doesn't sound like something that will be fast-tracked.

Originally Posted by Biff

Reconstruction of 100/Wilkes
New @ 100/McGillivray
New @ 100/330/Brady - a joint interchange
New @ 100/St Mary's
New @ 100/St Anne's

They might not all get constructed this round but they want the base and alignment work started for the interchanges with this round of infrastructure funding. The big push is to get the median widened and new lanes built from Wilkes to Hwy 1 East and all minor access roads closed. 100/McGillivray will likely be built within the next 2 years.

The north Perimeter just got a new overpass and interchange at 190 and one is one the way (presumably) at 59. Nothing else on the immediate horizon, or at least nothing that has been made public. I'd say that the next priority for the north Perimeter should be an overpass and interchange at Dugald Road.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The over/under on the Perimeter is nearly evenly split.

Currently we have:

Over (8)
Lag north
Henderson
CentrePort
Portage
Wilkes
Pembina
HWY 1
Inkster

Under (5)
Main
McPhillips
Route 90
Roblin
Lag south

Any time a rail crossing is involved it is over.

An addition....

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

In a situation like that, there would be no choice. Something would have to be done... the Perimeter was pretty impressive by the standards of the 1960s when it was built, but it hasn't really kept up with growth in the region. Some stretches are quite busy and the at-grade intersections are downright dangerous.

Biff did point out that there finally are plans to improve things, though - at least with respect to the south Perimeter. Just getting the fixes on his list done will make a big difference, but who knows how long it will take to get it all done. It doesn't sound like something that will be fast-tracked.



The north Perimeter just got a new overpass and interchange at 190 and one is one the way (presumably) at 59. Nothing else on the immediate horizon, or at least nothing that has been made public. I'd say that the next priority for the north Perimeter should be an overpass and interchange at Dugald Road.

I would think that the next grade separation for the north would appear as a diamond for Pipeline. The overpass for Pipeline wouldn't cost too much and could likely be completed fairly quickly.

I think MIT will put off Dugald for a while as it would make them look pretty silly having to build detours for a new overpass when they could have done it all correctly 4 years ago. Think of it, put everyone back on the old original Perimeter alignment only to rip out the new signalized intersection and build what should have been built in the first place.

I know I said that the South Perimeter is being pushed forward in the next few years however I have just learned that all efforts right now are being poured into the North Perimeter and 59 interchange. Once that is well underway everything will shift south.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think MIT will put off Dugald for a while as it would make them look pretty silly having to build detours for a new overpass when they could have done it all correctly 4 years ago. Think of it, put everyone back on the old original Perimeter alignment only to rip out the new signalized intersection and build what should have been built in the first place.

I get why this was put off... for a good while in the 90s there was no movement on rail grade separations given that everyone thought CP and CN would merge and drop down to one main line. Obviously that is not in the cards anymore, and we're left with a busy intersection and busy rail crossing on our main ring road. I'd be willing to forgive MIT if they changed up their plans and moved ahead with an overpass at this location.

I am a bit surprised to hear that Pipeline is a priority, though. It's an annoying light because it's the only one for a long stretch, but that corner is not particularly busy. I would think it should be the lowest priority out of all the currently signalized intersections on the Perimeter.