Western Expresso

[Urban recluse]

And who gets to support them?

[rrskylar]

So the cost of the so called "freedom road" (certainly not free for anyone paying taxes) has jumped from $30M to $46.5M or 55% and this for a reserve with get this....on-reserve population of 266! Does this make any sense what so ever? That's $173,000 per resident , fuck me!

[bomberjet]

Optics my friend, all about what it looks like. We're taking all "their" water and giving them a road to make them feel better. Seriously though, I think the City is terrified of the IJC and is doing everything they can to keep them at bay.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Optics my friend, all about what it looks like. We're taking all "their" water and giving them a road to make them feel better. Seriously though, I think the City is terrified of the IJC and is doing everything they can to keep them at bay.

You and I both know what comes next after the road goes in, the ever present threat of cottage development on that first nations land and once again the city will be held hostage and weak knee'd politicians like Bowman and Selinger will fold and offer up yet more tax dollars....

Pretty sad when a city of 800K can be held hostage and extorted by such a small group!

[Urban recluse]

The new term is "reconciliation".

[alittle1]

Anyone catch this the other night.

I never thought I would see this on a National News Broadcast:

Check it out for yourself at:

http://www.cnsnews.com/video/nationa...s-race-problem

[drew]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Anyone catch this the other night.

I never thought I would see this on a National News Broadcast:

Check it out for yourself at:

http://www.cnsnews.com/video/nationa...s-race-problem

^ does this mean you agree with him..?

The root cause of everything he discusses is poverty. Full stop. Everything else just radiates outwards. His rant could have been much shorter.

The same argument can be made for Aboriginals in Canada. Generations of systemic poverty.

[Urban recluse]

He is bang on. At some point, self-reflection must be advocated in both the African American community to the south and First Nations here.

As someone who has been in positions entailing hiring, I have hired First Nations applicants, and most fail to show up after a few weeks, while the foreign workers work their asses off. I have talked with older people who worked with aboriginals in the 70s up north, and the same work ethic (or lack thereof) was displayed then. After a couple of paychecks, you will not see them again.

Clearly the reserve system must be scrapped, and First Nations people must be provided with opportunities (enter urban reserves). Being poor is no excuse for young black men and aboriginals to turn to crime.

Every time I am in the US (especially AZ, CA) I see strong work ethic displayed by Hispanics.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

As someone who has been in positions entailing hiring, I have hired First Nations applicants, and most fail to show up after a few weeks, while the foreign workers work their asses off. I have talked with older people who worked with aboriginals in the 70s up north, and the same work ethic (or lack thereof) was displayed then. After a couple of paychecks, you will not see them again.

Clearly the reserve system must be scrapped, and First Nations people must be provided with opportunities (enter urban reserves). Being poor is no excuse for young black men and aboriginals to turn to crime.

This can be said for many ethnic backgrounds, in my personal and anecdotal experience, similar to your own recollection and experience.

On another note, any racist commentary that results from the posting of the Fox Video will not be tolerated here. Heads up for future discussion.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Being poor is no excuse for young black men and aboriginals to turn to crime.

It's hardly an excuse.

It's the root cause.

Obviously there needs to be some amount of ownership on the side of the aboriginal community BUT

If reserves were fully middle class communities, and the north end looked like Bridgewater forest - do you think there would still be crime happening in these communities at the current rate it does? Or lack of education, lack of family structure, lack of opportunity, etc. etc.?

This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" theory only works with those who have the drive and some opportunity to do it.

Spend some time on a reserve in Manitoba and try to imagine that your were born and raised there. Then ask yourself if YOU could ever be that outlier that somehow got away and made yourself successful.

Systemic poverty.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

He is bang on. At some point, self-reflection must be advocated in both the African American community to the south and First Nations here.

As someone who has been in positions entailing hiring, I have hired First Nations applicants, and most fail to show up after a few weeks, while the foreign workers work their asses off. I have talked with older people who worked with aboriginals in the 70s up north, and the same work ethic (or lack thereof) was displayed then. After a couple of paychecks, you will not see them again.

Clearly the reserve system must be scrapped, and First Nations people must be provided with opportunities (enter urban reserves). Being poor is no excuse for young black men and aboriginals to turn to crime.

Every time I am in the US (especially AZ, CA) I see strong work ethic displayed by Hispanics.

All true, sad but true.

Here in Canada what's been tried for First Nations people isn't working, more and more programs with even less results, First Nation's people in Canada have advantages that underclass blacks in the US could only dream about but it is still never enough. Things have gotten so goofy in Canada that the criminal justice system even factors in the persons background in sentencing.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

All true, sad but true.

Here in Canada what's been tried for First Nations people isn't working, more and more programs with even less results, First Nation's people in Canada have advantages that underclass blacks in the US could only dream about but it is still never enough. Things have gotten so goofy in Canada that the criminal justice system even factors in the persons background in sentencing.

Everything we do just tackles the effects. Not the cause.

First Nations communities may have some opportunities, but they are a non-starter because First Nation communities exist. If that makes any sense.

To make any headway, we need to rip the bandaid off and dissolve the reserve system. Until that happens, we could pour half of the GDP of Canada at the issue and still not get anywhere.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by drew

It's hardly an excuse.

It's the root cause.

Obviously there needs to be some amount of ownership on the side of the aboriginal community BUT

If reserves were fully middle class communities, and the north end looked like Bridgewater forest - do you think there would still be crime happening in these communities at the current rate it does? Or lack of education, lack of family structure, lack of opportunity, etc. etc.?

This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" theory only works with those who have the drive and some opportunity to do it.

Spend some time on a reserve in Manitoba and try to imagine that your were born and raised there. Then ask yourself if YOU could ever be that outlier that somehow got away and made yourself successful.

Systemic poverty.

Bolded, a lot of these so called "Bridgewater Forest" residents came from countries around the world all looking for a better life as did the parents and grandparents of most on this forum. My grandparents came as uneducated immigrants and worked damn hard but they also made sure their children were educated and in turn their grandchildren were all educated and became productive members of society.

The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" theory is fact and the only ones calling it a theory are those too lazy to embrace it or those who benefit from the people that are lazy!

There simply are no excuses, to have a large segment of the population dependent on government and unproductive that is growing at a faster rate than the general population that supports it things need to change and fast!

[Urban recluse]

First Nations people must work as a community to help overcome their issues. Pool resources and invest in enterprises, even if they do not fall under urban reserves. So many East Indians do this with hotels, for instance. The Enoch First Nation outside Edmonton built a $210 million Marriott hotel and casino. This is an amazing success story.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Bolded, a lot of these so called "Bridgewater Forest" residents came from countries around the world all looking for a better life as did the parents and grandparents of most on this forum. My grandparents came as uneducated immigrants and worked damn hard but they also made sure their children were educated and in turn their grandchildren were all educated and became productive members of society.

The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" theory is fact and the only ones calling it a theory are those too lazy to embrace it or those who benefit from the people that are lazy!

There simply are no excuses, to have a large segment of the population dependent on government and unproductive that is growing at a faster rate than the general population that supports it things need to change and fast!

I completely agree.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by drew

Everything we do just tackles the effects. Not the cause.

First Nations communities may have some opportunities, but they are a non-starter because First Nation communities exist. If that makes any sense.

To make any headway, we need to rip the bandaid off and dissolve the reserve system. Until that happens, we could pour half of the GDP of Canada at the issue and still not get anywhere.

Exactly. The reserve system needs to go.

[Cyro]

I've heard these same points over and over again, although making sense to me, the solutions seem vague if non existent.

How do we remove the reserve system from Canada if it is the solution to many of the ills that plague first nations people? I don't have the answer. The system is stronger and being recognized in daily events and legal challenges. I understand peoples frustrations but how do you propose we remove it, the solution to all or many of the problems?

[esquire]

^ It's so bloody tangled and complicated that I'm not sure there is an easy way to change the reserve system. There certainly wouldn't be unanimity over it being dumped.

The best move that can be made is on an individual level, to leave an isolated reserve with few prospects for education and employment and go to the city. And that's happening in cities across Canada.

Frankly, if you wanted to make people suffer, I doubt you could come up with a better model than the reserves... "Here you go, live in this community in the middle of nowhere with inadequate housing, poor education and health care, no job opportunities and extremely expensive food and other basics. Good luck!"

And with the advent of TV and the internet, you can get a daily reminder of just how crappy your lot in life is as you watch celebrities cavort on eTalk Daily. Not exactly a recipe for happiness and success.

[bomberjet]

But that's what the First Nations want. They want to live in their home territories. They want that, but at the same time want all the things that come with living in a City. Obviously that just doesn't happen when you live in NE Manitoba with no road access. It's basically impossible without an endless and very large flow of Federal cash. Even that hasn't been working; just need mo money, mo money.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

But that's what the First Nations want. They want to live in their home territories. They want that, but at the same time want all the things that come with living in a City. Obviously that just doesn't happen when you live in NE Manitoba with no road access. It's basically impossible without an endless and very large flow of Federal cash. Even that hasn't been working; just need mo money, mo money.

No govt. has had the gonads to tell them that if you want a better life, a good job and if you want to be treated like EVERYONE else you move to the city, get educated and get a job, it's really pretty easy actually. First Nations people have the advantage of speaking English that a lot of newcomers have to overcome but then again newcomers, immigrants and refugee's don't have chiefs, the left wing media, CBC and the NDP constantly telling them how hard done by they are and that they really are special and should be treated as such!