Federal Government & Politics II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This idea that colleges & universities could potentially have to shut down if they lose all these students is a falsehood. What it means is that they are going to have to prioritize what course they are offering. Canada already has the highest rate of university attainment on the planet according to the UN and yet our productivity level continues to decline against our Western peers. There is a complete disconnect between what we teach and what we need. It is not Canadians responsibility to accept substandard housing or homelessness to keep our post-secondaries happy. They are going to have to live within their means like everyone else and if that means fewer course options or getting rid of some of their bloated bureaucracy then so be it.

As for rural people being upset about losing those students/immigrants, there is not risk to PP as he already has all of that demographic wrapped up. As for a lack of workers, good. This means Canadian businesses are going to have to offer superior wages and investments in productivity to get the most out of the workers they already have like the rest of the Western world. You grow your economy {and hence the standard of living} by either investments in new technology or just importing cheap labour and unfortunately Trudeau has chosen the latter option...........a true race to the bottom.

Totally agree and the majoirty of those "students" are now attending storefront "Schools" In Brampton and Surrey. Regardless cash to the Unis to get them through is much cheaper than throwing billions at housing that won't get built anyway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Given that the distribution of international students is overwhelmingly in two provinces Ontario and BC, I don't think capping or reducing international student numbers back to say 2016-2017 levels would be that hard, especially if it's done in a way that's equitable for other provinces that benefits from a larger rural uplift. In reality most of the Ontario-bound international students end up in the GTA and SW Ontario, which is absolutely drowning from the current influx. IMO, the voters in the GTA, K-W area, London, Surrey etc won't mind a return to sanity.

Cutting back on international students is politically sellable in Quebec as well.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jamincan

A colleague of mine mentioned that he had read an article a while ago by Brian Mulroney saying that as Leader of the Opposition, Poilievre's only job is to hold the government to account. Only once an election is called does he need to present ideas.

I think that's a pretty reasonable point to keep in mind when we criticize Poilievre for not coming forward with any ideas.

I don't know if I agree with that. If one is saying the government of the day is doing something wrong, it would seem important to outline what the right course of action would be.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Cutting back on international students is politically sellable in Quebec as well.

Especially if it comes with a big boost in federal no strings attached funding or even strings attached to building residences.

It's crazy we can give a battery factory $40 Billion but Federal funding is a fraction of that. Which is more important to our economic prosperity?

A lot of our problems are complicated and intractable. Solving the rental crisis is a no brainer even if it doesn't solve all our housing problems it makes a serious dent.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Cutting back on international students is politically sellable in Quebec as well.

Which the feds have already done stealthily by rejecting record percentages of African francophonie students...

[yaletown_fella]

These wealthy homeowners in the Beaches or the Annex with lawn signs with slogans like "save the greenbelt" should also by extension, be required to put up accompanying signs calling for cutting immigration by 50-80% (or even have a few years of zero immigration to make up for the years of unsustainably high immigration while we wait for new housing developments to be approved/built) .

You cannot be pro greenbelt and pro high -immigration simultaneously , unless you are looking to financially benefit from it and don't care about anyone else. But no one with these virtue signalling lawn signs would be honest enough to admit "I got mine, screw everyone else"

These are the same people, like Margeret Atwood, who will claim the sky is falling , and that we need to prevent an 8 story condo development from being approved for an additional 4 floors or else the neighborhood will lose its character.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Given that the distribution of international students is overwhelmingly in two provinces Ontario and BC, I don't think capping or reducing international student numbers back to say 2016-2017 levels would be that hard, especially if it's done in a way that's equitable for other provinces that benefits from a larger rural uplift. In reality most of the Ontario-bound international students end up in the GTA and SW Ontario, which is absolutely drowning from the current influx. IMO, the voters in the GTA, K-W area, London, Surrey etc won't mind a return to sanity.

You are looking at distribution of students rather than the effect on the local economy. The GTA with 7M is less impacted by hundreds of thousands of students than say say Cape Breton with a population of 94k taking in 4k students. That's a major boon to them.

And even for small town universities and colleges that aren't taking in all foreign students on site, offering programs in the GTA is a major cash cow. Here's an example, St. Lawrence College from Cornwall has a contract with Alpha College in Brampton to offer programs there.

While undoubtedly the externalities of this scheme borne by the public at large have been terrible, the beneficiaries are many more than most people anticipate. And they will fight to retain it. I have zero doubt that if all foreign students were cut tomorrow, our post-secondary could easily be cut in half. And the majority of that damage would fall on schools in smaller communities. I'm fine with that. But I question whether the CPC rural base would actually be fine with that. So how do they design a policy (at the national level) that keeps their enrollment up while cutting foreign student enrollment in major cities?

[whatnext]

Once again, a damning indictment of Liberal immigration policies in the Globe & Mail:

The Liberals broke the immigration system. But better is always possible
Tony Keller
PUBLISHED 11 HOURS AGO
FOR SUBSCRIBERS

This week, when it releases its new immigration targets, the Trudeau government has an opportunity to begin rethinking immigration policy.

For the past eight years, the Liberal plan has been about sharply and steadily increasing permanent immigration, while enabling even sharper increases in temporary immigration – with the two interconnected streams powered by huge jumps in the number of foreign students.

Why? The government’s reasons are a combination of faith and politics.

Faith that accelerating the country’s population growth will somehow spark higher per-capita economic growth and higher living standards – a faith belied by economic theory and evidence.

The Liberals also wanted to politically anchor themselves to the left of the Conservatives on the issue, and perhaps plant the seeds of a nascent wedge. This even though the Conservatives, who never miss an opportunity to attack the Liberals over so much as a misplaced comma, have always studiously avoided criticizing Liberal immigration plans.

The Liberal approach to immigration is having major economic consequences, many of them negative. Yet for years, there has been no national conversation critical of the Liberal approach. The topic is taboo. That’s what happens with issues of faith....

....One of Canada’s biggest problems, and a growing drag on our living standards, is low productivity growth. Canadian businesses don’t invest enough in new technology and innovation – the things that spell more goods and services produced for each hour of work. A bottomless barrel of low-wage labour further discourages Canadian business from making those capital investments.

And a lot of low-wage labour is arriving through the booming student visa stream – which has been quietly converted from a selective program for luring the best and brightest to a no-limits scheme allowing universities and especially colleges to, in effect, sell Canadian citizenship. This, too, has to be scaled back and smartened up....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ter-is-always/

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You are looking at distribution of students rather than the effect on the local economy. The GTA with 7M is less impacted by hundreds of thousands of students than say say Cape Breton with a population of 94k taking in 4k students. That's a major boon to them.

And even for small town universities and colleges that aren't taking in all foreign students on site, offering programs in the GTA is a major cash cow. Here's an example, St. Lawrence College from Cornwall has a contract with Alpha College in Brampton to offer programs there.

While undoubtedly the externalities of this scheme borne by the public at large have been terrible, the beneficiaries are many more than most people anticipate. And they will fight to retain it. I have zero doubt that if all foreign students were cut tomorrow, our post-secondary could easily be cut in half. And the majority of that damage would fall on schools in smaller communities. I'm fine with that. But I question whether the CPC rural base would actually be fine with that. So how do they design a policy (at the national level) that keeps their enrollment up while cutting foreign student enrollment in major cities?

What I'm saying is that you can cut out all the fat by putting a hard cap on colleges heading to Ontario & GTA bound schools, and still not impact those in rural areas like Cape Breton.

At the end of the day, a school located in Cornwall or Thunder Bay should not be allowed to benefit from a satellite campus in Brampton. If they want the international student inflow, force them to host these students on their home campus. This can only benefit rural CPC ridings, if what the constituents want is more higher education positions, international students taking up local Mcjobs and higher housing/rental demand.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

What I'm saying is that you can cut out all the fat by putting a hard cap on colleges heading to Ontario & GTA bound schools, and still not impact those in rural areas like Cape Breton.

At the end of the day, a school located in Cornwall or Thunder Bay should not be allowed to benefit from a satellite campus in Brampton. If they want the international student inflow, force them to host these students on their home campus. This can only benefit rural CPC ridings, if what the constituents want is more higher education positions, international students taking up local Mcjobs and higher housing/rental demand.

I hope they do that. I'm just not sure how the federal government designs a policy like that distinctly targets specific provinces or even cities.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I hope they do that. I'm just not sure how the federal government designs a policy like that distinctly targets specific provinces or even cities.

In practise they could as the federal government controls the levers of international student visas, and the provinces can't really challenge it. Similar to immigration quotas.

When Quebec found out its francophonie international students got rejected at much higher rates, they had no recourse against Ottawa.

[thurmas]

found this fundraising note from Quebec very interesting from polling canada today:

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Just putting together the spreadsheet for the Q3 fundraising by province (Geographic data only available for individuals who contributed a total of $200+ during the quarter)

The Conservatives are now ahead in Quebec fundraising wise, beating the Bloc and Liberals

CPC - 261K
BQ: 248K
LPC: 184K

Tories only got 87.6K during the last quarter in Quebec and were well behind the Liberals and Bloc ($251k and $239k, respectively)

[thurmas]

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/...86882528747943

Third Quarter Federal Fundraising:

CPC: 7.06M
LPC: 3.09M
NDP: 1.57M
GPC: 343.8K
PPC: 272.7K
BQ: 248.3K

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I don't know if I agree with that. If one is saying the government of the day is doing something wrong, it would seem important to outline what the right course of action would be.

Or they just follow the 2018 Ontario PC Party Playbook. Don't put out a platform and just remind everyone they aren't the Liberals.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Or they just follow the 2018 Ontario PC Party Playbook. Don't put out a platform and just remind everyone they aren't the Liberals.

Yes learned their lesson from 2014 and 2011 Ontario elections when they had ambitious and disastrous platforms.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes learned their lesson from 2014 and 2011 Ontario elections when they had ambitious and disastrous platforms.

It was Tim Hudak LOL.

[Black Star]

Worst pretend PM in Canadian history. I often say, like many others, that trudeau is a dim bulb. That is true. But there have been lots of dim bulbs who don't act against the interests of their own country and fellow citizens. I have come to realize that bad values and stupidity go hand in hand. I can't believe that trudeau is so intellectually bankrupt that he doesn't realize how destructive his policies are. He knows, at least to a reasonable extent, that his policies, spending, deficits, taxes, monetary mismanagement, his insane regulations on oil & gas, and not least his attack on individual liberties is ruining people’s lives, bank accounts, families, and society. He knows it and he does not care. I think it is even worse than that. I think he wants to ruin people's lives. Trudeau is a post-modern social progressive who thinks the world is overpopulated. He also thinks that he is smarter than you are lmao…NOPE! I know that is a hard one to stomach. He sees himself as better than you. He is superior to you, and he looks down his long nose from on high at people like me and you. But it is he who is inferior in every way to the Average Canadian. trudeau is incredibly vain. But it's not just trudeau. This is part of the leftist ideology which i call social progressivism. Honest, hard working, humble, good humored, decent people can't be social progressives. Decent people can't sink into that level of self-centered arrogance that social progressivism demands. This is the essence of the culture wars and our political arguments. trudeau is only here to tear down!! And retain POWER anyway he can...Right jagmeet... and the ndp!. This has to be stopped at all costs.

[casper]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

In practise they could as the federal government controls the levers of international student visas, and the provinces can't really challenge it. Similar to immigration quotas.

When Quebec found out its francophonie international students got rejected at much higher rates, they had no recourse against Ottawa.

Well, the provinces do have control. They chose not to exercise it. All of these institutions operate under provincial law. The major universities are create by acts of the provincial legislate. The province has created laws to control private institutions. They could easily mandate the institutions have to arrange housing and if not no acceptance letter to be issued.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Worst pretend PM in Canadian history. I often say, like many others, that trudeau is a dim bulb. That is true. But there have been lots of dim bulbs who don't act against the interests of their own country and fellow citizens. I have come to realize that bad values and stupidity go hand in hand. I can't believe that trudeau is so intellectually bankrupt that he doesn't realize how destructive his policies are. He knows, at least to a reasonable extent, that his policies, spending, deficits, taxes, monetary mismanagement, his insane regulations on oil & gas, and not least his attack on individual liberties is ruining people’s lives, bank accounts, families, and society. He knows it and he does not care. I think it is even worse than that. I think he wants to ruin people's lives. Trudeau is a post-modern social progressive who thinks the world is overpopulated. He also thinks that he is smarter than you are lmao…NOPE! I know that is a hard one to stomach. He sees himself as better than you. He is superior to you, and he looks down his long nose from on high at people like me and you. But it is he who is inferior in every way to the Average Canadian. trudeau is incredibly vain. But it's not just trudeau. This is part of the leftist ideology which i call social progressivism. Honest, hard working, humble, good humored, decent people can't be social progressives. Decent people can't sink into that level of self-centered arrogance that social progressivism demands. This is the essence of the culture wars and our political arguments. trudeau is only here to tear down!! And retain POWER anyway he can...Right jagmeet... and the ndp!. This has to be stopped at all costs.

• Video Link

[Marty_Mcfly]

Fresh Leger poll:

CPC - 40%
LPC - 26%
NDP - 17%
BQ - 6%
GRN - 5%
PPC - 2%
Other - 1%

Seat count estimate:

CPC - 210
LPC - 71
BQ - 32
NDP - 27
GRN - 3


Regionals:

Atlantic: CPC +14
Quebec: BQ +3
Ontario: CPC +18
Prairies: CPC +24
Alberta: CPC +34
BC: CPC +18


Total Government satisfaction: 30%
Total Government disatisfaction: 63%

Preferred PM:
Pierre Poilievre: 29%
Justin Trudeau: 18%
Jagmeet Singh: 15%

Only 62% of Liberal voters say that Justin Trudeau would make the best Prime Minister.

https://legermarketing.wpenginepower...-31st-2023.pdf