BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed - Page 132

Jebby · #**2621** Posted **Dec 29, 2010, 8:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrjauk

Hi Owlhorn (Rice alum?):

The money spent on the Cotton Bowl seems to be a waste. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no college football team uses the Cotton Bowl as its home field. Except for the Cotton Bowl game and the annual Red River rivalry how many other events are held in the Cotton Bowl on an annual basis?

The Cotton Bowl game has been moved to Cowboys Stadium, so the only event I know that happens annually now at Cotton Bowl Stadium is the Red River Rivalry...seems like a huge waste of money that they renovated the stadium in 2008 to expand seating to 90,000+ !!!

BCPhil · #**2622** Posted **Dec 29, 2010, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

Whether you're referring to Cowboys Stadium or the Cotton Bowl you're looking at a little problem with including them. Cowboys Stadium was finished in 2009. No way a $1.2 billion stadium that's now looking like $1.5 billion would turn a profit the year it opened. The Cotton Bowl went through an extensive renovation and expansion in the 2008 and 2009 seasons. Probably not going to turn a profit for that season.

Nope, I was talking about soccer. The MLS. Pizza Hut Park only cost $80 million, and was built by the city, but recently the team has been losing money. They have a nice, soccer specific stadium that seats 21,000 but were not profitable in 2009.

What I was getting at was some teams get their own soccer specific stadium because they get unfavorable leases at stadiums owned by other teams. But that move does not guarantee they will be profitable, even when the stadium is owned by the public. Toronto is profitable because the city built a stadium in a great location and gave it to their friends in Maple Leaf entertainment, Seattle is profitable because they have a cheap lease with the state to use a multi use facility, with a lot of seats, that they sell out.

While a lot of people would like to see a soccer specific stadium built for the Whitecaps, I think BC Place will be great for at least the next 5 years. I'm of the belief that you get your fans first, then build them a special stadium, not of the "build it (with taxpayer money) and they will come" crowd.

And I don't think you quite get how debt and lending works either. Even if a $1.5 billion stadium is built by a team in the NFL, it can still be profitable the first year because the team doesn't pay the $1.5B in cash up front, it borrows that money. Just like if you were to buy a house, you pay your mortgage every month, and still hundreds of thousands at the end of the year, but you have positive cash flow into your bank account. You're profitable, even if you are in debt, because you can finance your debt with your income.

bigE · #**2623** Posted **Dec 29, 2010, 10:46 PM**

The reason Dallas isn't profitable is because their attendance is terrible (which is sad because they made it all the way to the finals this year)

http://mls.theoffside.com/attendance...stats-are.html

LA is up there with Seattle and Toronto in terms of attendance, but their payroll is 5x more than some teams.
http://www.droppingtimber.com/2010/0...s-in-2010.html

Locked In · #**2624** Posted **Jan 1, 2011, 12:12 AM**

My photos, today:

Full Size

Full size

Full Size

officedweller · #**2625** Posted **Jan 1, 2011, 12:53 AM**

Great shots.. Thanks.
Is it just the landings that will be opened up at the ramps?

Locked In · #**2626** Posted **Jan 1, 2011, 1:01 AM**

You're probably right - but hopefully they're just removing the concrete facade in sections.

nobase2010 · #**2627** Posted **Jan 2, 2011, 12:54 AM**

My pics from today, Jan 1, 2011.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34206763@N07/5314204456/sizes/l/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34206763@N07/5313607507/sizes/l/in/photostream/

raggedy13 · #**2628** Posted **Jan 2, 2011, 4:23 AM**

A few pics I took yesterday (not all that much to add to the great shots of nobase and locked in):

cornholio · #**2629** Posted **Jan 3, 2011, 9:48 AM**

Not sure if anyone posted this but the Whitecaps have a virtual 360x360 BCPlace view from every seat. Its pretty cool and gives you a good idea of the final product.
http://whitecaps.io-media.com/

Also I should add the prices are outrages and although im a fan I will not be paying them out of sheer principal, and because im cheap.

dtrain · #**2630** Posted **Jan 3, 2011, 4:35 PM**

Notice how they have configured the upper deck seating? It looks like they blocked off several thousand seats and created the potential for another level of private suites. I wonder if this is accurate or simply how the Whitecaps chose to render this area for their seating map.
Anyone have any insight on this?

dtrain · #**2631** Posted **Jan 3, 2011, 5:15 PM**

On another note - I'm watching 'Hot Tub Time Machine', and at the 1 hr. point of the movie, John Elway is attempting a pass to... Larry Crawford of the BC Lions! (circa 1984) - and this is at BC Place Stadium, so it all works!

Overground · #**2632** Posted **Jan 3, 2011, 8:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrain

Notice how they have configured the upper deck seating? It looks like they blocked off several thousand seats and created the potential for another level of private suites. I wonder if this is accurate or simply how the Whitecaps chose to render this area for their seating map.
Anyone have any insight on this?

You mean what's seen on the Virtual Venue seating map? Only the lower level is shown.

The upper part of the lower level has areas of seating tarped off with Bell advertisements so WFC can adhere to their target of capped seat numbers at 20k. I'm guessing they will end up raising this though.

SpikePhanta · #**2633** Posted **Jan 4, 2011, 3:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrain

On another note - I'm watching 'Hot Tub Time Machine', and at the 1 hr. point of the movie, John Elway is attempting a pass to... Larry Crawford of the BC Lions! (circa 1984) - and this is at BC Place Stadium, so it all works!

Not to mention the part where Lougoogle billionaire and the friends are on the yacht is filmed in False Creek!

scooterm2010 · #**2634** Posted **Jan 5, 2011, 7:56 PM**

Mast #34 is going up. 2 masts and 5 compression beams left to go.

golog · #**2635** Posted **Jan 5, 2011, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterm2010

Mast #34 is going up. 2 masts and 5 compression beams left to go.

thanks for the tally update

Fairbanks · #**2636** Posted **Jan 10, 2011, 6:59 PM**

Mast 35 hoisted into place. ! to go. Compression beams and glass daylight frames still be installed. Nailbiting begins as to whether roof will open and close or not.

officedweller · #**2637** Posted **Jan 10, 2011, 8:52 PM**

"daylight frames" - are those the clerestory panels below the compression beams? Haven't seen pics of those yet (nor in person) - which side of the stadium?

hollywoodnorth · #**2638** Posted **Jan 10, 2011, 9:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

"daylight frames" - are those the clerestory panels below the compression beams? Haven't seen pics of those yet (nor in person) - which side of the stadium?

yes that is them ...... and none have been put into place yet. I would assume all Masts and compression beams would need to be ERECTED before the daylight frames start to go up. So give it another week or 2.

officedweller · #**2639** Posted **Jan 10, 2011, 10:10 PM**

Thanks.

They'll have to be flexible since the mast structure will flex and sway slightly with the wind (I think that why the clerestory panels won't be glass, but the same clear plastic/polymer material used on the Beijing Water Cube).

Owlhorn · #**2640** Posted **Jan 10, 2011, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrjauk

Hi Owlhorn (Rice alum?):

The money spent on the Cotton Bowl seems to be a waste. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no college football team uses the Cotton Bowl as its home field. Except for the Cotton Bowl game and the annual Red River rivalry how many other events are held in the Cotton Bowl on an annual basis?

The Cotton Bowl renovation was only $50 million. It hosts The Al Lipscomb Classic, Red River Rivalry, Baylor vs Texas Tech, a Division II game of semi-local teams and the Ticket City Bowl. 5 games is similar to some college home schedules. So not bad at all. I'm sure the money has been considered made back in revenues from hotels, restaurants and rentals that might have been lost if the game was moved.

Quote:

Nope, I was talking about soccer. The MLS. Pizza Hut Park only cost $80 million, and was built by the city, but recently the team has been losing money. They have a nice, soccer specific stadium that seats 21,000 but were not profitable in 2009.

Pizza Hut Park is in the far flung suburbs, where the only way to get to it is to take one of the tollways. Though Frisco actually has things to do, its far away from most of the metro area therefore attendance is somewhat hurt by its location. That was called by many the day it was announced. Its isolated from even most suburbs and is even isolated from Frisco's other minor league and entertainment venues. Horrible location for anything but an auto racing venue.

And no, you're not gonna make a profit on a $1.5 billion stadium in 1 year. Mark Cuban pointed out the math on this back when the AAC was built. Its just an expensive thing to simply operate.