Atlantic Canada airport thread

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Halifax/St John's are successful (more so than airports serving other areas with similar populations) due to their isolation/remoteness and lack of competition, and not comparable to NB. NB is well serviced by their airports, and these cutback by WestJet are due to corporate ridiculousness not due to a lack of travelers.

YHZ also serves as a hub for the region in various ways and is centrally located in NS. But this would likely be true even if a new combined southern NB airport were built as the combined demand would still be lower than YHZ.

I think the winter driving issue is a good reason to support the expansion of passenger rail. The provincial governments would have to take the lead there as VIA will probably never do anything useful. I think there is a certain amount of learned helplessness in the Maritimes. Ontario is building out a huge rail network including electrified rail. A proportional level of investment and service level in the Maritimes would amount to at least a main corridor with daily service and some commuter rail. Even if the railway companies didn't want to get involved it would just mean building 1 track and some sidings along the highways and buying some old ROWs. Eventually it would be completely reasonable to build a 200 km/h line from Halifax to Saint John (with service on to Boston).

Look at Sweden and Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-s..._of_Europe.svg

[benvui]

Originally Posted by someone123

YHZ also serves as a hub for the region in various ways and is centrally located in NS. But this would likely be true even if a new combined southern NB airport were built as the combined demand would still be lower than YHZ.

I think the winter driving issue is a good reason to support the expansion of passenger rail. The provincial governments would have to take the lead there as VIA will probably never do anything useful. I think there is a certain amount of learned helplessness in the Maritimes. Ontario is building out a huge rail network including electrified rail. A proportional level of investment and service level in the Maritimes would amount to at least a main corridor with daily service and some commuter rail. Even if the railway companies didn't want to get involved it would just mean building 1 track and some sidings along the highways and buying some old ROWs. Eventually it would be completely reasonable to build a 200 km/h line from Halifax to Saint John (with service on to Boston).

Look at Sweden and Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-s..._of_Europe.svg

Having flown into Sweden to go to Stockholm several times, I have used the high speed strain from the airport in Uppsala into Central Station in Stockholm, is it a a 30-40 minute train ride that covers over 80km. A similar service between Moncton, Saint John and Fredericton would be a great addition and would open up travel and commuting between the cities. Unfortunately our government doesn't have the ingenuity to or foresight to realize how much this draw people to the region and grow all the cities involved. Eventually expanding to Halifax would be great too. The key to this would be direct lines with very few stops in between.

The train from the airport into Stockholm passes many stations used for commuter rail that go into the city but doesn't stop at them and this is how they are able to feed the airport.

I think the only way a regional airport would work is if they built a rail system to support it.

[cliff2121]

The Stockholm metro area alone has over 2.5 million people, so enough population density to make rail practical. How can that in any way be compared to southern NB, with its extremely low and spread out population?

Don't get me wrong, I love trains and in fact took a a high speed train this morning, but that's between two dense cities with between 2 and 3 million people each. Two to four trains per hour, which makes it useful since you just hop on one when you're ready to depart. Oh, and good public transportation available when you arrive, so you don't need a car to get around. How would I get from Moncton's train station or airport to downtown again...?

New Brunswick's airport situation works reasonably well, the cities being served with several flights per day to major hubs with usually pretty good connections, in my experience. Sure, often on smaller planes, but it works and gets me home fairly reliably!

[MonctonRad]

The sale of SunWing Airlines to WestJet has been approved by the federal government (with conditions)

The transport minister has attached conditions to the acquisition that include extending Sunwing packages to five new cities, maintaining capacity on the most affected routes and keeping both a vacations business head office in Toronto and a regional one in Montreal for at least five years.

Among the other conditions are a requirement to improve “regional connectivity” and baggage handling, boost net employment at Sunwing’s Toronto office and “gradually” end its seasonal plane-leasing practice to protect jobs in Canada.

WestJet and Sunwing have previously said their tour operations will be merged at the leisure carrier’s current home base of Toronto, while WestJet will manage Sunwing Airlines from its Calgary headquarters.

Sunwing is a big player here on the east coast. I know conditions have been placed on the sale, but, given WestJet's focus on western oprations, it does make one wonder what sort of an effect this sale might have on the sun charter service here on the east coast in the long term.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by benvui

Unfortunately our government doesn't have the ingenuity to or foresight to realize how much this draw people to the region and grow all the cities involved.

New Brunswick did have intercity railway at one point. Want to take a stab at why it was thrown in the bin (along with our streetcars)?

Originally Posted by cliff2121

New Brunswick's airport situation works reasonably well, the cities being served with several flights per day to major hubs with usually pretty good connections, in my experience. Sure, often on smaller planes, but it works and gets me home fairly reliably!

Agreed. The larger the cities get the more it makes sense for them to each individually have an airport, and so i'm not sold on the idea of scaling back airports which are generally increasing and growing along with their connected metros. We can do a lot more to connect those airports to their city centres but for the time being they work relatively well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by cliff2121

The Stockholm metro area alone has over 2.5 million people, so enough population density to make rail practical. How can that in any way be compared to southern NB, with its extremely low and spread out population?

The Maritimes will not have Stockholm-like infrastructure but they could support spending the kind of money that's spent on transport in smaller Scandinavian or Baltic cities or provincial areas in France or Spain. This would mean at first trying to develop 1 basic track that's mostly separate from freight. It could in large part run along highway ROWs or through forest and there are no real mountains. A single route going from SJ -> Moncton -> Halifax could pass by all of those airports and would ideally connect the downtowns and a bunch of other towns like Sussex or Sackville. People could get to the train stations with transit or ride sharing. It would make the airports a lot easier to get to and in general transportation would become radically more convenient in the region, particularly in winter.

[PEI highway guy]

[QUOTE=JHikka;9889140]New Brunswick did have intercity railway at one point. Want to take a stab at why it was thrown in the bin (along with our streetcars)?

in the 70s early 80's at least, Arailiner was used Moncton to Campbellton Monction to SJ and maybe to Edmundston one or two cars. I took the dayliner a few times through Northern NB. The car would go 60 to 80 MPH between stations making the trip in about 4 hrs Moncton to Camp. Due to track conditions northbound this is not possible anymore.

[MonctonRad]

Just an anecdote.

My father worked with CNR on PEI when I was growing up, and, because of this, the whole family had rail passes allowing for free passenger travel, which we used quite liberally to visit relations on the mainland.

In the 1960s, connections to mainland trains was at the station in Moncton, and, if we we travelling to central Canada, of course we boarded the Ocean Limited. I have clear recollections of up to three passenger trains at a time converging on Moncton for connecting passengers, and lined up side-to-side at the rail station. The rail station in Moncton was a lively place.

Yes, there was vibrant intercity rail in the Maritimes when I was a kid.

[someone123]

The service levels were much higher up until even the 1990's and I have dim memories of little stops where you'd see people waiting for trains.

I think the current service level is a bit of an accident of history that happened due to a confluence of many negative factors. Rail monopolies, federal budget constraints, a poor economic decade in Canada and in the Maritimes in particular, and heavy suburbanization that hit its peak around that time. In the mid-90's the attitude was that the Maritimes had to be cut to the bone and the future was all suburban houses and big box stores anyway. But these days there is more growth, the economy is better, and there is a shift back to cities where people will get around more without cars. Ride sharing has also changed the situation a lot, and pairs perfectly with intercity rail and flights.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

A single route going from SJ -> Moncton -> Halifax could pass by all of those airports and would ideally connect the downtowns and a bunch of other towns like Sussex or Sackville. People could get to the train stations with transit or ride sharing. It would make the airports a lot easier to get to and in general transportation would become radically more convenient in the region, particularly in winter.

Traced this route from SJ->Sackville the other night and the ROW is all still there, and almost all of the stops are still there with intact stations. Towns like Hampton and Sussex would be much busier places with a couple trains rolling through daily. Stations are about as central as they can possibly be.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Traced this route from SJ->Sackville the other night and the ROW is all still there, and almost all of the stops are still there with intact stations. Towns like Hampton and Sussex would be much busier places with a couple trains rolling through daily.

And to tie it in with the thread, if the train went from Hampton and Sussex to the airports that would be very convenient for the people in those areas and lessen the need for a combined airport for the region. In the long run it could become a rail line that is faster and more reliable than driving. It would be convenient for people to choose from multiple airports.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Just an anecdote.

My father worked with CNR on PEI when I was growing up, and, because of this, the whole family had rail passes allowing for free passenger travel, which we used quite liberally to visit relations on the mainland.

In the 1960s, connections to mainland trains was at the station in Moncton, and, if we we travelling to central Canada, of course we boarded the Ocean Limited. I have clear recollections of up to three passenger trains at a time converging on Moncton for connecting passengers, and lined up side-to-side at the rail station. The rail station in Moncton was a lively place.

Yes, there was vibrant intercity rail in the Maritimes when I was a kid.

My grandfather was baggagge master in Moncton in the 60's. tHAT PLACE WAS BUSY. In the early70's I remember a train to Montreal at noon 4pm or so, 6 pm and 11 pm or so. Trains arrived from Montreal to Halifax headed east with the same frequency. Trains probablywent to Saint John and up north on the West side of NB. .the station was a busy spot ,

[cliff2121]

Nice to see positive comments about rail history in NB. I took the train to Quebec as a kid and it ran 3x a week as I recall. Where I live now the train stations look like modern airports and are just as lively. Aided by the fact that most adults don't own a car or want to use it for intercity travel due to traffic congestion and supurb public transportation at the destination.

NB has changed, with much better travel infrastructure now. More flight choices and better prices than I remember. In addition, the highways are great now, so for example driving from a home in the Kennebecasis valley to the parking lot at YQM takes just over an hour and is usually a pretty straightforward, comfortable ride.

[lirette]

With the amount of people moving here from other countries where transit is much more commonplace it seems like a no brainer to me to have inter city rail in NB. After travelling through Ireland I was blown away to see rail routes having stops at even really tiny towns. I could see myself using a service to saint john from Moncton several times a year just for weekend getaways. The cores of all 3 cities are in a really good place over the last 5 years, this would only help facilitate visitors into town for weekend events where one doesn't have to worry about a car.

[MonctonRad]

From the Canada section:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Lynx Air adds YYC-YYZ-YFC (Fredericton,NB) 3x weekly.

Lynx is a relatively new ULCC. It would appear that Freddy now has a new direct one-stop to Calgary.

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

From the Canada section:



Lynx is a relatively new ULCC. It would appear that Freddy now has a new direct one-stop to Calgary.

Here is the press release https://yfcfredericton.ca/Latest-New...o-its-network/

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

From the Canada section:



Lynx is a relatively new ULCC. It would appear that Freddy now has a new direct one-stop to Calgary.

I think that's a solid strategy for our smaller east coast airports. Better chance of full planes on all segments, thus a better chance the service sticks and general connectivity increases. Flair should've offered a one-stop service (ie, sit on the plane in an intermediary airport for < 1 hour) from YSJ via YYZ or YKF to their YEG base, but they seem to be falling apart with airplanes being seized, and routes being cancelled.

[DyAm00394]

Bathurst airport says it won't make it to summer without government aid

"The airport is too important to lose, say mayor and MLA.

The Bathurst Regional Airport has been operating on a deficit all winter with the expectation that its spring schedule would bring more passenger flights and more revenue, said airport CEO Jamie DeGrace.

"But that didn't materialize. So we're staying open right now, because we're still considered an essential service for the [air] ambulance," said DeGrace.

However, the revenue generated from air ambulances in the span of the entire year "is less than what it costs us to open our runway for two or three snowstorms."

The airport will only be able to operate for a few more months without government support, he said.

DeGrace said the root of the airport's problems is a national pilot shortage, which has airlines deploying their pilots at larger airports, leaving smaller hubs with fewer of the passenger flights that pay their bills.

The airport has four passenger flights a week now, but prior to the COVID-19 pandemic it had multiple flights a day.

Provincial and federal ministers aware
DeGrace believes the shortage is an issue that will be solved with time and the airport needs around $1-million to hang on until that happens.

That's about as much as it costs to pave a kilometre of road, he said.

"A kilometre of paved road gets you down the street and a kilometre of paved runway gets you anywhere in the world."

DeGrace said he's met with all levels of government to ask for support but they're still in early discussions.

Jeff Carr, the provincial minister of transportation and infrastructure, is aware of the issue, a provincial spokesperson said in an email to CBC.

"Jeff Carr did raise the issue with Federal Transport Minister, Omar Alghabra and expressed the need for greater support for regional air services, especially in the Bathurst region," said Tyler McLean.

The federal government provided the airport with $2 million to offset the impacts of the pandemic, a spokesperson for Transport Canada said in an email.

"Minister Alghabra met with the Bathurst Regional Airport to assure them the Government of Canada will continue to support airports across the country," said Hicham Ayoun.

DeGrace said he's very appreciative of the support the airport received from the federal government during the pandemic so far, but said the airport is now burning through its reserves.

Airport key for health-care services
René Legacy, Liberal MLA for Bathurst West-Beresford, said although some would argue that airports are federal jurisdiction, the province should step up financially.

"Based on the services that this airport's been offering, the province — they have to be at the table too, to ensure that there's adequate service for northern New Brunswick," Legacy said.

He said he's been speaking with colleagues at the legislature in an attempt to get them to realize the airport provides a critical service.

The airport is crucial for bringing specialists to the area, said Kim Chamberlain, the mayor of Bathurst.

Without the airport, she said doctors would have to fly into somewhere like Moncton before driving to Bathurst, which takes away from time that could be spent with patients.

"We've been saying it for a while that the north seems to be forgotten," Chamberlain said. "We're always having to work on our own, or always have to, you know, speak louder. And ... we cannot afford to close this airport."

Airport was self-sustaining before pandemic
Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the airport was doing well.

"What really disturbs me is the fact that this was a very successful airport," Legacy said.

DeGrace said the number of passengers walking through the door plummeted and hasn't recovered much.

"We used to have, on average, 40,000 to 50,000 passengers, per year," he said. "We're now around 15,000 passengers per year because of the limited schedule that we can offer."

The demand is still there, he said, but the airport just doesn't have the flights to match it.

About 70 per cent of their client base is driving elsewhere to catch flights, DeGrace said.

"We receive lots of concerned calls and wishes that they could be traveling from here, so that they could have the normal access to the rest of the world that the rest of Canada does."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...port-1.6781269

[DyAm00394]

Budget airline Flair returns to Saint John with increased service

"Starting this week, the budget carrier Flair Airlines is back for another summer at the Saint John Airport, but with more flights than offered in 2022. And Flair will offer service to Toronto three days a week this summer, an upgrade over the two days offered last year.

The airline hasn't flown out of Saint John since October 2022, as it's been offering a seasonal service that ceased during the fall and winter seasons, according to Lori Carle, manager of marketing, public and corporate relations for the airport.

"They're coming every year — we would like them to stay longer," Carle said during an interview with Information Morning Saint John.

"Anecdotally, talking to their marketing people, they said 'our schedulers' plan is to build out in Saint John and to add more [flights].' So that gives us a lot of hope."

MORE AIR CANADA FLIGHTS ON THE HORIZON
Flair is now the second airline operating out of the airport, in addition to Air Canada. Carle said the airport has heard from Air Canada that it will also be increasing its flights out of Saint John once travel picks up in the summer months.

Air Canada will be returning to five flights a day, "which is a wonderful thing for Saint John, travellers and business people alike," Carle said.

The additional flight offered by Flair this summer is good news, said David Duplisea, CEO of the Saint John Region Chamber of Commerce. He said the chamber has asked Air Canada to bring back an early morning flight to Toronto, as well.

"For business people that are travelling and for making connections as well, you need the options," Duplisea said.

Carle said the early flight looks like it will be back in May.

HOW CHEAP IS FLAIR?
If someone were to depart on April 1, a one-way flight to Toronto from Saint John on the airline costs $69, after tax, with a basic ticket, which includes a personal carry-on item but nothing else.

With a basic bundle, which includes a personal carry-on item, a carry-on suitcase and a checked bag, the cost is $148.35.

The same one-way flight on Air Canada can cost $648.69, which includes a personal carry-on item and suitcase carry on".

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...vice-1.6792304

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Budget airline Flair returns to Saint John with increased service



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...vice-1.6792304

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but Flair seems to be on its last legs. Just had some planes seized. I hope it works out as I want more options out of SJ but not going to hold my breath.