The Brightline Thread

[jmecklenborg]

^somehow Amtrak moves a ton of people along the Northeast Corridor despite each of those cities having major airports.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

^somehow Amtrak moves a ton of people along the Northeast Corridor despite each of those cities having major airports.

Amtrak moves around 30 million passengers nationally, just 12.5 million or so on the Northeast Corridor ride Amtrak trains.
NJT had 268 million passengers, LIRR had 89 million passengers, MTA North had 87 million passengers, SEPTA regional rail had 35 million passengers, MBTA had 37 million passengers, MARC had 9 million passengers, and VRE had 4.5 million passengers.

You think that 12. 5 million passengers on Amtrak’s NEC is an awesome statistic, well compare that number with 530 million.
Math= 268+89+87+35+37+9+4.5=529.5
530/12.5 = 42.4
Should we be surprised NJT was almost half that total?
Yes, local regional commuter trains have 42 times more riders in cities along Amtrak’s NEC than Amtrak’s intercity trains. That would be 4200% more.

Just tp put that 520 million into perspective;
JFK International served 62 million passengers
Newark Liberty served 46 million passengers
LaGuardia served 31 million passengers
Just the New York metro airports served 139 million passengers, 10 times more than Amtrak’s 12.5 million on the entire NEC. I do not wish to add the ridership totals for every city along the NEC, but rest as surely, they will only pile on to that total.

Trains can be competitive in shorter distance intercity travel, but they are not competitive in longer distance intercity travel. Trains are very competitive in even shorter commuter travel distances than intercity travel.

12.5 million for the NEC is nothing to snub about, but I would not be crowing about it either. Japan’s Shinkansen ridership is a whopping 460 million. That is worthy numbers to crow about, not 12.5 million.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

^Right, there is only traffic when driving to a train station but never LAX, and you only have to wait in line to take your shoes off when riding a train but not an airplane. LA Union Station is a 2-hour drive in rush hour traffic from Downtown LA. The purple line is being built as we speak from UCLA to LAX, in the complete opposite direction of the train station.

Or if you have TSA PreCheck. You keep your shoes on, belt on, liquid 3-1-1 in, and laptop in. You can pay $85 for 5 years.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Yes, local regional commuter trains have 42 times more riders in cities along Amtrak’s NEC than Amtrak’s intercity trains. That would be 4200% more.

You're getting way out in the weeds. The NE Corridor doesn't even have true high speed rail. There are draw bridges, grade crossings, 100+ year-old tunnels with speed restrictions, etc.

My original point is that a high speed rail link between LA Union Station and Las Vegas is going to make it a much easier of a decision for more and more individuals and chunks of established businesses, especially self-employed people and the entertainment business, to establish a permanent residence in low-tax Nevada and easily travel into Los Angeles when needed.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

You're getting way out in the weeds. The NE Corridor doesn't even have true high speed rail. There are draw bridges, grade crossings, 100+ year-old tunnels with speed restrictions, etc.

My original point is that a high speed rail link between LA Union Station and Las Vegas is going to make it a much easier of a decision for more and more individuals and chunks of established businesses, especially self-employed people and the entertainment business, to establish a permanent residence in low-tax Nevada and easily travel into Los Angeles when needed.

Well, any train could do that, not just a HSR train. As is, many entertainers do so already using commercial flights on airliners, or with their own private planes. Golly, some already do that traveling within southern California, the recent deceased basketball star who used helicopters to fly over heavily congested traffic. I just do not buy that a HSR train solves or cures every environmental and social issue.

As for the NEC being true HSR or not, that really depends upon which section of it you are looking at. Soon in New Jersey between New York and Philadelphia the new Acela trains will be reaching maximum speeds of 165 mph. The existing Acela trains already reach 135 mph in New Jersey. In Rhode Island the existing Acela trains already reach 150 mph for an ever so brief amount of time. But between New York and New Haven all trains are limited to just 79 mph. Even in Europe lines are considered HSR when using HSR trains on mixed new HSR tracks and older slower tracks. Why should the NEC be considered differently?

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

My original point is that a high speed rail link between LA Union Station and Las Vegas is going to make it a much easier of a decision for more and more individuals and chunks of established businesses, especially self-employed people and the entertainment business, to establish a permanent residence in low-tax Nevada and easily travel into Los Angeles when needed.

The presence of a well-used rail line (high speed or not) on the East Coast has not sapped New York, Boston, or DC of their vitality or of their residents in significant numbers, because those cities have intrinsic appeal. There are reasons to live there that outweigh the high cost of living. The urban amenities are unmatched, these cities are home to institutions and industries that are not easily relocated, and the benefits of being in an urban cluster (productive encounters, networking, etc) are hard to replicate especially in a modern sprawly American city. Hell, Los Angeles itself spent decades trying to build these kinds of features into its economy in order to function more like East Coast cities. Now it has them. Vegas does not.

The fact is that a California exodus is an overblown narrative pushed by Republicans to justify their anti-tax, anti-immigration, anti-science position. You don't hear about a New York exodus, even though New York throws off thousands of people every year. Florida is full of them! California is just an easier whipping boy since people love to bash "those loonies on the left coast". The secret is that in both coasts, the people who leave major cities are very quickly replaced by newcomers, sometimes low-skill immigrants but also recent college grads, high-skill immigrants, and aspiring artists/performers. The churn is probably a positive for these cities as old ideas give way to new ones at a faster rate.

You do raise a good point about housing hoarding - Prop 13 means that people could leave California and still maintain a home there relatively cheaply, freezing out newcomers since housing production is so low. But if those people change their residency to avoid California income taxes, then they also lose the ability to vote in California, so they diminish the power of the NIMBY voting bloc that keeps housing scarce in the first place. So, even if your doomsday scenario happens to some extent the result will likely be positive in the long run.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The presence of a well-used rail line (high speed or not) on the East Coast has not sapped New York, Boston, or DC of their vitality or of their residents in significant numbers, because those cities have intrinsic appeal.

A NYC resident, or in fact any east coast resident, cannot escape to any of the notorious "low-tax" states without completely leaving the region - well outside of Amtrak's northeast corridor.

One of the big problems with the United States is that the federal tax code is progressive but the state tax codes outside the Northeast and Great Lakes are a race to the bottom - states compete for business and residents with scorched earth regressive tax codes. What's more, some states have special sources of revenue - especially Nevada and Texas - that give them an unearned but very real advantage.

In addition to the gaming, hotel, and restaurant taxes that fund more than 20% of the state budget, the state and its cities doesn't have the pension legacy costs that saddle places like New York and Illinois and California (although California just shored up its pensions with its recent blowout budget surpluses).

[jmecklenborg]

This guy is saving $28,000/mo by moving his youtube business to Las Vegas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D32umxevtCU

We just had 400,000 people watch two politicians play video games the other night. In another five years more and more of the so-called entertainment industry will just be people watching other people play video games, kids watching other kids play with toys, or other self-made content.

The defunct Quibbi was an attempt to circumvent Hollywood union rules:
https://www.inputmag.com/culture/exc...ts-shows-crews

LA people need to wake up and realize the once-monolithic entertainment industry is fragmenting and going to settle up the (rail) road to low-tax Las Vegas.

[Busy Bee]

So......... Good riddance? Those examples you gave....my god just shoot me.

[digitallagasse]

Brightline put up an overview of the Brightline West project for public comment. Gives a rough idea of what they are looking to do. Will be interesting to see how they intend to reach the speeds noted with so much running in the median of the interstate.

https://brightlinewestconstruction.com/vpm1/#slide1

[N830MH]

Likely to start construction in 2022. To be complete in 2025. Extending to Tampa.

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...Tbu3IXkRo76Y5I

[N830MH]

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/...cTKjS6nArGnpgE

Brightline looks to have Tampa-Orlando high-speed rail route complete by 2025

[N830MH]

https://www.thenextmiami.com/nearly-...LlqG7if-WyC2-k

NEARLY 1,000 CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE NOW ON THE JOB BUILDING BRIGHTLINE’S MIAMI TO ORLANDO RAIL LINE

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wir...9z6Ct.facebook

Las Vegas high speed project, rebranded Brightline West, reveals details on construction plans

[Easy]

Brightline West is running out of time. They don't sell the bonds by the end of November, they have to give back California the $1 billion promised. I don't think that they're even selling them yet. California will have to extend the deadline again or it may be dead for awhile.

[redblock]

Brightline West has opened their construction webpage. You can sign up for updates.

https://brightlinewestconstruction.com/

[redblock]

Originally Posted by redblock

Brightline West has opened their construction webpage. You can sign up for updates.

https://brightlinewestconstruction.com/

Well, this construction page will be dormant for some time. The project has been postponed because they could not sell the bonds.


https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wir...-to-sell-bonds

[Lakelander]

Here's another article on the Brightline West delay:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...c&utm_source=t

[canucklehead2]

Time for President BIDEN to step in and finance a proper Interstate HSR network plan like Obama tried to get built just after the 2008 crash...

[electricron]

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

Time for President BIDEN to step in and finance a proper Interstate HSR network plan like Obama tried to get built just after the 2008 crash...

What would you consider a "proper" interstate HSR network? Where would you build it, and more importantly, where would you not build it?

[Busy Bee]

A midwest hsr build out long advocated by the Midwest hsr Association would be transformational. Start there.

Fully fund California hsr.

Start funding and implementing a program to bring the NEC to modern hsr standards including a southern extension. Big $$$ but spread over 20 years is perfectly doable for the richest nation on earth.

Partner with Canada to make Montreal-NYC hsr a reality. And toronto. A Toronto-detroit-chicago at 175+ mph would be amazing.

Portland-seattle-vancouver? Yes-yes-yes

Well see how texas central plays out. If they can build a privately funded line and pursue extensions down the road to other texas cities, more power to them.

Brightlinevwest west ditto. Hopefully Phoenix is on the horizon as well.

That Chatanooga-Atlanta project seems like it makes a lot of sense.

...........