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  #7581  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 6:09 PM
The Dirt The Dirt is offline
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Stapleton development moves so slowly. Years ago, when I used to live in Shittleton, the 36th & Wabash development was a sure thing that was to happen any day. So was the southeast corner of MLK and Central. So was the empty field next to the control tower. So was all of that open land directly north of I-70. MLK getting punched through to Peoria got delayed year after year. The western side of the Central Park Ave. bridge of the tracks was delayed year after year.
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  #7582  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 6:23 PM
twister244 twister244 is online now
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Nice hotel proposal in the works for LoHi:
https://businessden.com/2019/12/05/s...block-in-lohi/
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  #7583  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
Stapleton development moves so slowly. Years ago, when I used to live in Shittleton, the 36th & Wabash development was a sure thing that was to happen any day. So was the southeast corner of MLK and Central. So was the empty field next to the control tower. So was all of that open land directly north of I-70. MLK getting punched through to Peoria got delayed year after year. The western side of the Central Park Ave. bridge of the tracks was delayed year after year.
I am split on agreeing with this. Since Stapleton is 8 square miles and has over 27,000 people in it with a lot of commercial/retail, I can't say that it was slow to develop in its 16-17 years of existence. However, the very specific parcels that are waiting for specifically zoned development (low-income, office, TOD, etc) has had times of "it's coming soon" -- and then -- "wait...not just yet...not ready yet". Again, it takes time to develop all this land and use it for its intended purposes. I promise that it would all be gobbled up by now if we just let SF home developers take it all. We have needed to wait for the market to handle more density, multi-family housing, and more office components. There HAS been new multi-family housing complexes, low-income housing, and office buildings built in the last year or so...so it's not dead.

The MLK extension is happening now and will be opening soon in early 2020. Obviously the CPB bridge has been done now for over a year, and the open land development north of I-70 and south of Northfield (that isn't the actual Northfield Power Center) now has a couple multi-story hotels, a 3-story office building, a senior apartment complex, townhome for-sale buildings, and many units of apartments...and now only a few parcels are left to take. The Sprouts grocery/commercial area is being built now and is part of the CPB TOD, and should push more of the planned TOD office/residential buildings to groundbreak. Another shopping/restaurant/office center (separate from Northfield center) is scheduled to be developed very soon at the NW corner of I-70 and CPB.
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Last edited by CONative; Dec 5, 2019 at 6:58 PM.
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  #7584  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 7:32 PM
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While I've said this before, this is a great example
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
and propagating conspiracy theories (e.g. there's 20K unoccupied luxury apartments in Denver; apartments are being used to launder weed money).
Regardless of which side of a 'talking point' you might be, statistics can often be technically correct (or close) but the argument be totally misleading. It's always important to ask: "What are they not telling us?"

With respect to vacant luxury units - which is a dandy example - SARA FLEMING in Westword recently did a nice job of explaining the seeming anomaly.

https://www.westword.com/news/how-ma...enver-11539948
Quote:
But according to the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2017 estimates (the most recent available), there are about 19,452 unoccupied housing units in the city. While the numbers are jarring, they require an explanation. [Note: that number isn't specific to 'luxury' housing but who cares about small details.]

The average vacancy rate of the approximately 140,000 apartment units in Denver was 5.2 percent for the most recent fiscal quarter, according to the Apartment Association of Metro Denver. But that doesn't mean that all of those apartments are empty throughout the year, says Teo Nicolais, a local real estate buff and Harvard Extension School professor. According to Nicolais, a good portion of those vacant units are in between leases; either the owner is looking for a new tenant, or it’s been pre-leased and is awaiting a new tenant to move in.
What do the experts say about turnover?
Quote:
Real estate experts assume a “frictional” vacancy rate of somewhere between 3 to 6 percent for rentals. That’s the vacancy rate that will naturally occur in the market to account for the time it takes to “flip” a unit from one tenant to another.
They do acknowledge an increased impact in downtown due to increasing construction costs as well as the continually growing inventory.
Quote:
The Apartment Association report also shows that the vacancy rate for apartments built after 2010 is higher than the average, ranging from around 8 to 12 percent during the past year. Part of that, Throupe says, is because of the lag time it takes to lease brand-new apartment complexes.
At least on this site we're smart enough to appreciate that new sizable apartment projects can take ~two years to build and that's on top of maybe 2/3 years to plan and entitle the project. Depending on how many people are moving into Denver, the absorption rate and vacancy can bounce around some. Projecting unit needs is part science/data and part art.

But Candi CdeBaca is certainly free to develop as many affordable units as she can.
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  #7585  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 7:58 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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Denver's Park and Rec is hosting an open house for a new Park called Vanderbilt Park East that is associated with the Broadway Station redevelopment. As much as I wish this area was going to see GT, Arapahoe Square, or 38th and Blake density, the plans are definitely an improvement over the wasteland that it currently is.



https://denverite.com/2019/12/05/cit...park-in-baker/
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  #7586  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 8:07 PM
mr1138 mr1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CONative View Post
I am split on agreeing with this. Since Stapleton is 8 square miles and has over 27,000 people in it with a lot of commercial/retail, I can't say that it was slow to develop in its 16-17 years of existence. However, the very specific parcels that are waiting for specifically zoned development (low-income, office, TOD, etc) has had times of "it's coming soon" -- and then -- "wait...not just yet...not ready yet". Again, it takes time to develop all this land and use it for its intended purposes. I promise that it would all be gobbled up by now if we just let SF home developers take it all. We have needed to wait for the market to handle more density, multi-family housing, and more office components. There HAS been new multi-family housing complexes, low-income housing, and office buildings built in the last year or so...so it's not dead.
This has always been my basic feeling on Stapleton as well. I don't think it's really that surprising that the more dense or interesting parts have taken a long time to get going. Some of the plans for the Central Park Station TOD are similar in scale and density to the kind of development going on in places like RiNo right now. But why would a developer have built that kind of product in Stapleton 10 years ago? At the time, there was no train running and there were MANY other places being marketed for mixed-use/multifamily development either right near downtown, or at other planned urban developments at places like Belleview, Broadway (Gates), 38th and Blake, Olde Town Arvada, 9th and Colorado - the list goes on - all of which have also taken years or decades to get their multi-family component going.

And that's not even to mention the geographic scale. CONative, you mention 8 square miles! Most of these higher density TODs I mentioned are closer to a few hundred acres. Plus, it seems to me that the whole theory of people trading size (i.e. living in smaller, denser places) for location is dependent on the location part right? It's like the chicken and the egg - there needs to be a "there" there first that people find to be a desirable location. The lower-density parts of Stapleton are perfectly in keeping with the urban design of places like Park Hill or Montclair and their residential parkways, and without building this community first, it's hard for me to imagine the dense parts would have moved any faster.

The real question for me is whether what has been built is made to adapt? Does the retail that has been built need to continue to have suburban amounts of parking? Could more multi-family be infilled in places like the 1st Bank between 29th Ave and King Soopers, and does the zoning and parking-sharing agreements allow for this? I have always just assumed that Quebec Square will be torn down in another 15-30 years when the Central Park TOD is looking to grow, but maybe I underestimate the money that those big box stores make. Of course, they could always stay there and redevelop into something like the planned 41st and Fox Home Depot by then too.
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  #7587  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 8:25 PM
Agent Orange Agent Orange is offline
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Weren't you the one who suggested she was "one smart cookie"?
More like "one smarmy kook"
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  #7588  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 9:33 PM
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It's now confirmed; Denver's not alone

Colorado can be so Bucolic


Credit iStock by Getty Images via SmartAsset

Seven Colorado Cities Are Among The Fastest-Growing In The Country
December 5, 2019 By Ben Warwick - CBS4 Denver
Quote:
DENVER (CBS4) – Think Colorado cities are growing fast? You’re not wrong. A new survey shows that Colorado has seven cities among the 50 fastest-growing cities in the country.

Three cities – Longmont, Greeley, and Denver – placed in the Top 10. Longmont was named the fastest-growing city in the country overall. Greeley was fifth and Denver was seventh.

Fort Collins (15th), Highlands Ranch (30th), Arvada (34th), and Thornton (42nd) all placed in the top 50 boomtowns. Those cities stand out for their low unemployment rates and high percentage growth in housing.
This is obviously by percentage but disgusting or impressive depending...

Determined by Smart Asset using 7 metrics including:
Quote:
Population change: This is the percentage change in the population for the five-year period from 2014 through 2018. Data is from the Census Bureau’s 2014 and 2018 1-year American Community Surveys and is measured at the city level.
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  #7589  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 3:29 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
As recently as one single decade ago housing costs in Denver were reasonable. As recently as 15 years ago housing costs were "very" reasonable.
My comment was more broad than Denver. Restrictive zoning has been around a lot longer in other metros and there is ample precedent for the zoning/cost correlation.

Up until 2008, Colorado was a proud property rights place. Now, not even the $125k avg income Douglas County Republicans are property rights advocates for land use anymore. El Paso County is the only place left in this state where you can be a robber baron.
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  #7590  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Due to SnyderBock's automation and the coming tsunami of AI all those great tech jobs will wither on a climate change vine. So all those apartments being built downtown will become 'affordable' since that's all anybody will be able to pay.

You really don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure all this out.
So your recommendation is that we wait an entire generation for the problem to "fix itself". No thanks. Americans can and should do better than that.
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  #7591  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 6:14 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by CONative View Post
However, the very specific parcels that are waiting for specifically zoned development (low-income, office, TOD, etc) has had times of "it's coming soon" -- and then -- "wait...not just yet...not ready yet". Again, it takes time to develop all this land and use it for its intended purposes.
In my own experience dealing at Stapleton, the issue for the high density lots and low income housing lots hasn't been a lack of demand from the marketplace, it's been a lack of interest from the former forest city folks in actually selling parcels for vertical development. They had what's maybe the best real estate deal in Denver history (hell maybe in all of history) and were/are in no rush. I suspect they rather enjoy the ridiculous land price appreciation while they sit and wait. The parcels being kept for office will likely sit vacant another couple decades, but we'll see.
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  #7592  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
It's now confirmed; Denver's not alone

Colorado can be so Bucolic


Credit iStock by Getty Images via SmartAsset

Seven Colorado Cities Are Among The Fastest-Growing In The Country
December 5, 2019 By Ben Warwick - CBS4 Denver

This is obviously by percentage but disgusting or impressive depending...

Determined by Smart Asset using 7 metrics including:
Are we really taking serious a website called SmartAsset now?
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  #7593  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 10:10 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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I had the day off. I decided to spend an obnoxious amount of time walking downtown to follow up on some projects that I am interested in.

McGregor Square



The Fitzgerald (18th and Market)



X Denver



The Pullman



HUB 2



3299 Brighton Blvd.



Market Station



10th and Acoma (Ground is very broken)



Cottrell Building is gone

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  #7594  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2019, 4:59 AM
semiurban semiurban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
I had the day off. I decided to spend an obnoxious amount of time walking downtown to follow up on some projects that I am interested in.
I know you did it for the exercise and not our enjoyment, but thank you. Nicely done!
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  #7595  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2019, 3:17 PM
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BG918 BG918 is offline
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What is replacing the Cottrell Building?
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  #7596  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2019, 9:26 PM
pablosan pablosan is offline
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
What is replacing the Cottrell Building?
Don't know what is coming in it's place.Here's an article.

Source: Businessden

https://businessden.com/2019/04/08/g...t-mall-closes/
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  #7597  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pablosan View Post
Don't know what is coming in it's place.Here's an article.

Source: Businessden

https://businessden.com/2019/04/08/g...t-mall-closes/
It's along the mall so I wouldn't expect anything too tall. I'd like to see more residential, apartments or condos.
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  #7598  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2019, 1:02 AM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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Their website says 315,000 square feet mixed use. With FAR, that would be 20 stories. It would be nice to see a 20-story residential building with ground floor retail if that is what they decide on
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  #7599  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2019, 4:58 AM
Fritzdude Fritzdude is offline
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https://denverite.com/2019/12/02/gaz...nt-renderings/

Nice outline of some new development (most of which has been discussed here previously).
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  #7600  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2019, 7:11 AM
DenvertoLA DenvertoLA is offline
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Nice photo update! That brick work on Market station is great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
It's along the mall so I wouldn't expect anything too tall. I'd like to see more residential, apartments or condos.

What is the logic behind the hight limitation on the mall?
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