VIA Rail network developments

[Dengler Avenue]

Yeah right... Stopping at Quebec City’s tiny airport, but not Toronto’s...

[Aylmer]

And Montreal's. I'm certain that VIA will want to stop at Pearson once HFR is extended westwards. But for now, it's already a decently convenient connection between VIA and UP Express.

[danishh]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

And Montreal's. I'm certain that VIA will want to stop at Pearson once HFR is extended westwards. But for now, it's already a decently convenient connection between VIA and UP Express.

the route also goes by the Pickering airport site. Presumably there's plans for a stop there once the airport is built.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Yeah right... Stopping at Quebec City’s tiny airport, but not Toronto’s...

Originally Posted by Aylmer

And Montreal's. I'm certain that VIA will want to stop at Pearson once HFR is extended westwards. But for now, it's already a decently convenient connection between VIA and UP Express.

Originally Posted by danishh

the route also goes by the Pickering airport site. Presumably there's plans for a stop there once the airport is built.

I believe VIA's plan is to reach out to municipalities and industries to determine where they implement this at first, and where to expand it. This is sadly one of those things that we won't know until we know. :/

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Yeah right... Stopping at Quebec City’s tiny airport, but not Toronto’s...

And why would Via connect at Pearson when their plan is only to downtown Toronto? Remember not Via but the province was the main proponent of the HSR route from downtown Toronto to London. You can argue about the merits or lack of concerning the HSR route but not this aspect of Via's proposal.

The whole corridor Quebec City to Detroit including Windsor should have been the study area for the HFR proposal, but that is what happens when you have competing plans and all governments dragging their heels.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

And why would Via connect at Pearson when their plan is only to downtown Toronto? Remember not Via but the province was the main proponent of the HSR route from downtown Toronto to London. You can argue about the merits or lack of concerning the HSR route but not this aspect of Via's proposal.

The whole corridor Quebec City to Detroit including Windsor should have been the study area for the HFR proposal, but that is what happens when you have competing plans and all governments dragging their heels.

The feds recently announced they want VIA to consider expanding HFR to the entire corridor, so we'll see what the "alternate route' looks like. :/

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

The feds recently announced they want VIA to consider expanding HFR to the entire corridor, so we'll see what the "alternate route' looks like. :/

The last thing this project needs is more scope-creep.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

The last thing this project needs is more scope-creep.

Would extension to K-W and London (at least) actually represent much "scope-creep"?

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Would extension to K-W and London (at least) actually represent much "scope-creep"?

K-W is already getting two-way all-day GO service. And yes it would.

[CityTech]

I would argue that southwest Ontario (ie. the Toronto to Windsor part of the corridor) actually makes sense as something to be left to the province to deal with. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec makes sense as a federal project--you're connecting the national capital, the two provincial capitals, and the two largest cities of the country. But Kitchener, London, Windsor, etc. seems a lot less "national". I actually wonder if VIA should just download all service west of Toronto to Metrolinx.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by CityTech

I would argue that southwest Ontario (ie. the Toronto to Windsor part of the corridor) actually makes sense as something to be left to the province to deal with. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec makes sense as a federal project--you're connecting the national capital, the two provincial capitals, and the two largest cities of the country. But Kitchener, London, Windsor, etc. seems a lot less "national". I actually wonder if VIA should just download all service west of Toronto to Metrolinx.

Good Day.

If I recall my history, VIA has bandied about west of TO for many years (along with the other stretches), and kept falling prey to way too much scope creep (and, my stretch first - ism). The last push was the Ont.Libs. proposing a HSR for that stretch, and the ball was dropped yet again.

VIA is really trying to get this limited scope proposal pushed through for once, and if it really does work - well then and only then expand the net with a positive backdrop to showcase.

IMHO.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

The last thing this project needs is more scope-creep.

I tend to agree. It should be kept small to prove the concept first and then expand from there. If we try to do everything at once, nothing will get done.

Having said that, it all depends on what is expected. If the idea is to only have a plan for a future extension to K-W and London, then by all means, but it shouldn't be in the first stage.

IMHO, the initial project should be limitited to Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal as that is the central leg and supports the 1st, 2nd and 5th largest CMAs. Extensions to Quebec City (the 7th largest CMA) and K-W and London (the 10th and 11th largest CMSs respectively) should be left for a second stage.

Future thought should also be given to Calgary-Edmonton (the 4th and 6th largest CMAs), but that would be a separate project.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Would extension to K-W and London (at least) actually represent much "scope-creep"?

Given that:

• Toronto-KW-London is about 200km,
• Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal is about 600km,
• Montreal-Quebec City is about 270km,

It would be about a 25% increase in scope from what was initially planned.

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

K-W is already getting two-way all-day GO service. And yes it would.

Playing devils advocate, the GO project is an opportunity to co-ordinate efforts. GO would provide regional rail, where as VIA would provide intercity rail. Both are important as they serve different markets.

Originally Posted by CityTech

I would argue that southwest Ontario (ie. the Toronto to Windsor part of the corridor) actually makes sense as something to be left to the province to deal with. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec makes sense as a federal project--you're connecting the national capital, the two provincial capitals, and the two largest cities of the country. But Kitchener, London, Windsor, etc. seems a lot less "national". I actually wonder if VIA should just download all service west of Toronto to Metrolinx.

How is the Toronto-Windsor part of the corridor any different than the Montreal-Quebec segment? If one should be a provincial responsibility, so should the other. Personally, I feel intercity rail travel should be the responsibility of VIA, even if it is all within one province. Regional rail should be a provincial responsibility.

[Dengler Avenue]

I feel intercity rail travel should be the responsibility of VIA, even if it is all within one province. Regional rail should be a provincial responsibility.

Thanks for making that distinction.
Now that I think about it, if done right, the two actually complement, not compete with, one another. Via can then be viewed as a premium version of Go.

K-W is already getting two-way all-day GO service. And yes it would.

Not for another 4 or 5 years

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Thanks for making that distinction.
Now that I think about it, if done right, the two actually complement, not compete with, one another. Via can then be viewed as a premium version of Go.


Not for another 4 or 5 years

HFR is further off than that, no?

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

HFR is further off than that, no?

I hope not, but it's starting to look that way. If the government actually cares about tackling climate change and not just empty platitudes

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I hope not, but it's starting to look that way. If the government actually cares about tackling climate change and not just empty platitudes

*laughs in cynical*

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I hope not, but it's starting to look that way. If the government actually cares about tackling climate change and not just empty platitudes

Given that they still need to finish their environmental assessment, get approval, put the contract out for tender, do the engineering design, acquire the land, and build a few hundred kilometres of new track, 5 years would be incredibly fast. For the new trains (which are an existing design, it will be 4 years from budget approval to receiving the first train, and likely another year before they have them all, and that’s for a much easier project.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Given that they still need to finish their environmental assessment, get approval, put the contract out for tender, do the engineering design, acquire the land, and build a few hundred kilometres of new track, 5 years would be incredibly fast. For the new trains (which are an existing design, it will be 4 years from budget approval to receiving the first train, and likely another year before they have them all, and that’s for a much easier project.

They still haven't identified a route (an actual route, not a schematic with names of cities). They can't even start an environmental assessment.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They still haven't identified a route (an actual route, not a schematic with names of cities). They can't even start an environmental assessment.

They already know the route based on existing or former rail corridors. They are working on the details including costing.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They already know the route based on existing or former rail corridors. They are working on the details including costing.

The existing and former rail corridors only make up part of the route. They have not identified how they are getting from Union (if they are using Union) to Agincourt, how they're getting from Havelock to Smith Falls (or if they are planning to convert the snowmobile trail into a class 6 railway, how they're going to do that, and how they are going to get from Glen Tay to Smith Falls), how they are going to get from Coteau to Central Station (assuming they are using central station) and how they are getting from Central Station to the start of the QGR North of the city. Nor have they identified how they are crossing Peterborough or the various towns along the route that have level crossings.

An environmental assessment needs some level of detail before they know what they are assessing.