Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit - Page 512

esquire · #**10221** Posted **Aug 15, 2019, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc

They would both be equally close to grocery stores, Safeway at Pembina& McGilvary for the one your're talking about and Sobey's for the Parker Lands. There is also a Strip mall right at the Corner of Hurst and Waverley. I don't think either would be starved of stuff to walk to.

Neither is really a pedestrian paradise but IMO Pembina is more walkable than the Parker site... living in a building there, you would be just a fairly short walk away from a pub, some shops and restaurants, Shoppers Drug Mart, a Starbucks. If I lived in the Parker TOD I would not expect to walk much except as a leisure activity without any particular destination in mind.

dmacc · #**10222** Posted **Aug 15, 2019, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Neither is really a pedestrian paradise but IMO Pembina is more walkable than the Parker site... living in a building there, you would be just a fairly short walk away from a pub, some shops and restaurants, Shoppers Drug Mart, a Starbucks. If I lived in the Parker TOD I would not expect to walk much except as a leisure activity without any particular destination in mind.

The Parker lands would be phenomenal if there was some way to cross the tracks to Taylor, it would open the area up to so much. That's likely a pipe dream though.

GarryEllice · #**10223** Posted **Aug 15, 2019, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Neither is really a pedestrian paradise but IMO Pembina is more walkable than the Parker site... living in a building there, you would be just a fairly short walk away from a pub, some shops and restaurants, Shoppers Drug Mart, a Starbucks. If I lived in the Parker TOD I would not expect to walk much except as a leisure activity without any particular destination in mind.

Yeah, I don't think there's any comparison, Pembina has a ton of stuff and the Parker area has pretty much nothing. Is there even going to be a way to cross the tracks to get to Sobeys and Grant Park from Beaumont Station? That would be great but I don't recall seeing anything like that in the plans. The CN line is just two tracks at that point, surely we could manage to construct a pedestrian underpass or footbridge?

plrh · #**10224** Posted **Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM**

https://canada.constructconnect.com/...ing-completion

LilZebra · #**10225** Posted **Sep 1, 2019, 1:26 AM**

So is there a Transit strike coming up tomorrow?

GarryEllice · #**10226** Posted **Sep 1, 2019, 2:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilZebra

So is there a Transit strike coming up tomorrow?

Not much point to striking on a Sunday (or holiday Monday) given the pitiful transit service. Who would even notice?

And the union foresees no disruption on Tuesday.

Kinguni · #**10227** Posted **Sep 3, 2019, 11:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilZebra

So is there a Transit strike coming up tomorrow?

Not today either. Anyone who thinks the Transit union is going to strike in the foreseeable future is a gullible fool who worships Mayor Bowman.

BlubberMiley · #**10228** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 3:00 AM**

I looked at the overpass on McGillivary, and felt like crying. Rerouting Phase 2 reeked of corruption, and makes no sense. It's no longer rapid transit, since it deviates so far from where the population is concentrated (at least the people that would use Transit), along Pembina Highway.

EdwardTH · #**10229** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlubberMiley

I looked at the overpass on McGillivary, and felt like crying. Rerouting Phase 2 reeked of corruption, and makes no sense. It's no longer rapid transit, since it deviates so far from where the population is concentrated (at least the people that would use Transit), along Pembina Highway.

Everyone says this but there's really not much residential along Pembina. From Jubilee to McGillivray is entirely parking and low-rise retail, there's one single, small 3-storey apartment building on that stretch. Mcgillivray to Crescent/Chevrier there's a whole 6 more residential buildings, all 3-4 storeys max. The only residential density on Pembina is clustered between Chevrier and Plaza drive, where the dogleg comes back within a few hundred metres of Pembina anyway. The dogleg route really doesn't miss much, maybe 200 apartment units. One single TOD tower could make up for that

Winnipegger · #**10230** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Everyone says this but there's really not much residential along Pembina. From Jubilee to McGillivray is entirely parking and low-rise retail, there's one single, small 3-storey apartment building on that stretch. Mcgillivray to Crescent/Chevrier there's a whole 6 more residential buildings, all 3-4 storeys max. The only residential density on Pembina is clustered between Chevrier and Plaza drive, where the dogleg comes back within a few hundred metres of Pembina anyway. The dogleg route really doesn't miss much, maybe 200 apartment units. One single TOD tower could make up for that

Yeah I agree with this.

It's also all about cost-benefit ratios.

Consider the context of Winnipeg. We are a city that has no problem ponying up $1000 a month to pay for that brand new Ford F-150, Acura MDX, or BMW 3 Series, but the moment you ask Winnipeggers to pay an additional $100 a year in taxes to fund things like capital projects, they act like you are trying to steal their firstborn child.

This city values single-occupant vehicles almost as much as life itself, and so we have a real problem trying to fund a proper transit system due to both opposition to tax increases to fund projects and low transit ridership to begin with. As a result, the cheapest "rapid" transit options are selected, which meant the dogleg route. To expropriate properties along or near Pembina so that transit could be closer to that corridor would have only increased ridership marginally in the short run and would have been significantly more expensive.

In the long run, it would be my guess that the induced additional ridership from now having a "rapid transit" system will be pretty much the same, regardless of what route was chosen for the second phase. While Pembina may have more people living on it right now, the greenfield along the dogleg route provides new opportunities for TOD.

GarryEllice · #**10231** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Everyone says this but there's really not much residential along Pembina. From Jubilee to McGillivray is entirely parking and low-rise retail, there's one single, small 3-storey apartment building on that stretch. Mcgillivray to Crescent/Chevrier there's a whole 6 more residential buildings, all 3-4 storeys max. The only residential density on Pembina is clustered between Chevrier and Plaza drive, where the dogleg comes back within a few hundred metres of Pembina anyway. The dogleg route really doesn't miss much, maybe 200 apartment units. One single TOD tower could make up for that

So only people in apartment buildings take transit? Pembina has a very healthy transit ridership, so your logic is going off-track somewhere. It may be very low-rise but it's a complete neighbourhood with residential areas on both sides and plenty of shops, services, and employment all along. Far more conducive to transit use than a hydro corridor bordering an industrial park. I don't think the dogleg is the end of the world, but to say that one TOD tower would bring the ridership up to the same level as Pembina is really a stretch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

It's also all about cost-benefit ratios.
...
As a result, the cheapest "rapid" transit options are selected, which meant the dogleg route. To expropriate properties along or near Pembina so that transit could be closer to that corridor would have only increased ridership marginally in the short run and would have been significantly more expensive.

Huh?? The Pembina option was to run in the Letellier rail corridor, which has space to accommodate a busway (and is being used for the busway south of Plaza Drive anyway). No expropriation needed and no greater expense. That wasn't the justification at all. The only real justification for the dogleg offered in the routing report was the TOD opportunities.

I agree that the dogleg is not really a huge deal in the long run, but let's not overstate the case for it.

Winnipegger · #**10232** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 3:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Huh?? The Pembina option was to run in the Letellier rail corridor, which has space to accommodate a busway (and is being used for the busway south of Plaza Drive anyway). No expropriation needed and no greater expense. That wasn't the justification at all. The only real justification for the dogleg offered in the routing report was the TOD opportunities.

I agree that the dogleg is not really a huge deal in the long run, but let's not overstate the case for it.

Ah sorry, I must be misinformed. My apologies for making an incorrect argument.

joshlemer · #**10233** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 4:30 PM**

Photos taken today of where the new SW transit corridor spills onto Markham

Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8077...7i13312!8i6656

Included are photos of the new art installation that shows on a map the locations/dates of construction of historic settlements in/around Winnipeg.

esquire · #**10234** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 4:36 PM**

^ The pics aren't coming up for me

joshlemer · #**10235** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 4:49 PM**

Fixed

esquire · #**10236** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 4:58 PM**

^ Thanks! It looks nice, but this segment of the BRT route seems awkward. I'm sure the people who live nearby must be thrilled to have a high frequency bus route on what was probably a quiet residential street before. It's too bad that there wasn't an exclusive ROW built to make everyone happier, residents and transit users alike.

morty · #**10237** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 5:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Thanks! It looks nice, but this segment of the BRT route seems awkward. I'm sure the people who live nearby must be thrilled to have a high frequency bus route on what was probably a quiet residential street before. It's too bad that there wasn't an exclusive ROW built to make everyone happier, residents and transit users alike.

Especially now that they are going with a trunk and feeder route system. The BRT and stations are not designed for that, which means there will likely be busses dropping people off nearby on local streets and awkward turn around loops.

bomberjet · #**10238** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 5:09 PM**

Why are they not designed for it?

joshlemer · #**10239** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 5:14 PM**

In general the SW corridor phase 2 does leave some to be desired in terms of being close to high-density / developable land, but I think that the last bit of the phase two development, south of Bishop Grandin, is actually really underrated IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8110.../data=!3m1!1e3

The area, which the last leg of SW corridor threads through, along the rail line (before exiting into the University via Markham), has quite a number of apartment complexes probably making it one of the most densely populated areas in all of Winnipeg (approximately 5,000 population just between the rail line and University Crescent alone. (source: https://winnipeg.ca/census/2016/Comm...m/Montcalm.pdf)

And also hosts a number of businesses that make it easy to live here without use of a car (Safeway, Giant Tiger, tons of restaurants,

morty · #**10240** Posted **Sep 11, 2019, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Why are they not designed for it?

I believe that not all the stations have bus loops for feeder routes, especially the ones further south like Markham, Chancellor, and Plaza stations. The ROW is narrow so they just barely squeeze in space for a station and nothing else. It's possible I'm wrong, I'll try to find the final design documents later today to double check.