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  #26701  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 6:22 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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^ Thanks for breaking the argument down so well, LVDW. It's kind of silly hearing arguments from idealogues who just see it as a simple rich vs poor issue.

If Chicago gave two shits about affordable housing, it would relax the building and zoning codes. It would also stop making property owners come to court all the time over little things. But the city doesn't care. There is a lobby to create housing for poor African Americans, then there are the rules for everybody else.
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  #26702  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:13 PM
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Skate Park

11/5


I keep on thinking of the WWI ships in their dazzle camouflage.
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  #26703  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:13 PM
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^
That's the rock climbing wall, Harry. No skate park in this project.

^^
Well, of course; poor minorites make up a big, juicy voter base. Wouldn't you choose to buy them off if you were playing with other people's money? It's policies like this that make me want to move into a Republicans-only city somewhere in Texas. Furthermore, and in respect to skyscraper fans, affordable housing requirements essentially take 10% off the potential height of every residential PD in town, if not cancel them altogether. Real Estate is meant to be a free market system. Let it be. Fucking morons.
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  #26704  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:19 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryc View Post
11/5


I keep on thinking of the WWI ships in their dazzle camouflage.
That's exactly what that is, snazzy:


wikipedia

For those of you who aren't familiar, Dazzle camo was developed not to hide the presence of an object, but to mask it's size, shape, and heading. Obviously this is particularly useful if you don't want a U-boat captain to be able to determine whether the ship they are firing at is a battleship or a dinky gunboat, but I suppose is also useful if you don't want a large, potentially obtrusive, object to be easily identified in a public park.
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  #26705  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:21 PM
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bcp bcp is online now
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Originally Posted by Kenmore View Post
ugh it's libertarian clap trap

there is absolutely 100% an affordable housing crisis in halfway decent (no need for gold coast hyperbole) neighborhoods. it's the primary reason why middle class families continue to flee the city.

and this is the massive hole in the argument for mandated affordable housing (footed by taxpayers, new construction-buyers and developers) - not everybody DESERVES to live in halfway decent neighborhoods. cruel? yes yes...but very true. people deserve to live where they choose, and what they can afford. this requires lifestyle changes, sacrifice, and imperfect living conditions (garden units, no view, no parking, crappy appliances, an extra walk to the train)

neighborhoods change, and when enough hard-working, decent, families move into one area that is halfway (or less) decent, then the neighborhood changes and improves. shit, even prices go up! and that's ok, because ONLY then can these people participate in equity building and refinancing...in the long run, affordable programs end up holding back families because they typically have capped equity. completely ridiculous over-reach.
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  #26706  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:26 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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I took the discussion about affordable housing to the Chicago Politics thread
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  #26707  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:26 PM
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I've seen people confuse the two parks. Here:



Also, Google Maps already has the new path layout for MDP. That's cool.
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  #26708  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:37 PM
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Looks like a condo project at Jackson and Green in the West Loop should be moving forward very soon

Kind of the typical crap you see being built in the West Loop, the kind of stuff that tasteless people think is classy.

It wouldn't be bad if they used nice stone and quality materials, but we all know that won't happen, and the ground level will just be a decorated wall for car storage, all too common in the west loop
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  #26709  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:41 PM
Ryanrule Ryanrule is offline
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Was pretty busy yesterday and didn't get to say much about this.

Anyway, about OCB, the fact that it's going to be furnished student apartments rather than straight residential is a bit of a bummer, because the building seems like it's going to be pretty great. I mean, the turreted corners on the north end make for some amazing room potential.


And the view:


(Once they clean the windows)

And the ceilings are so high for such an old building. The top floor has skylights with old-fashioned chain-pull shutters.



That's going to be amazing once it's finished.

However, the student apartment usage does make sense given the location (right next to the library and within a few blocks of more schools than I can count, with a growing market of student-friendly businesses like coffee shops opening nearby). It seemed like the possibility existed to switch out the use to normal apartments or condos in a few years if the market turns (Giles would have to buy out CA Ventures' stake in the building).

I think OCB could be a catalyst for real change in the area. The fact that it'll be bustling with young people (480 beds) with loose pockets should only help the local retail scene, and strengthening the context of residential in the area could make developers brave enough to try more housing in the area.

Eventually that parking lot and gas station on Dearborn/Congress will have to go. This only increases the odds.

Oh, and Giles said that originally the Plymouth building (next door) was part of the OCB development, but it got dropped and the building is still on the market. He wouldn't say whether the plan was to break through the walls to join the buildings. Seems like landmarks would have a problem with that, but some Printers Row buildings have done that already. I have suspicions that Giles might have his eyes set on that building for his next project after OCB wraps.

No idea what the deal is with the Manhattan building on the other side of Plymouth.
I think they should have made the top 2 floors into a set of classicly themed apartments or condos. Suck up some of that daddy's money from the students.
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  #26710  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:52 PM
brian_b brian_b is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenmore View Post
ugh it's libertarian clap trap

there is absolutely 100% an affordable housing crisis in halfway decent (no need for gold coast hyperbole) neighborhoods. it's the primary reason why middle class families continue to flee the city.
No. There is a crisis of halfway decent neighborhoods in the city. And you can thank CPS for that. 85% of the neighborhoods in this city would be perfectly attractive to middle class families if the neighborhood schools weren't so awful. Period.
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  #26711  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 7:54 PM
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If you make under 100k, you probably can't swing a place downtown alone, that's how it is, and how it should be.

What we need to do is expand public transit so the section 8 folks can move to the burbs
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  #26712  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 8:16 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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No. There is a crisis of halfway decent neighborhoods in the city. And you can thank CPS for that. 85% of the neighborhoods in this city would be perfectly attractive to middle class families if the neighborhood schools weren't so awful. Period.
How do we do that though? Why are they bad in the first place?
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  #26713  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 8:21 PM
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How do we do that though? Why are they bad in the first place?
I haven't been here long enough to know how they got that way, but right now gross mismanagement, complacency and a fear of change is preventing a lot of improvement.
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  #26714  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 8:35 PM
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I think they should have made the top 2 floors into a set of classicly themed apartments or condos. Suck up some of that daddy's money from the students.
They are keeping the original finish and replacing molding etc where needed. The double sash windows will be kept - but with a 4" limit to the opening. Nice wood floors.

The arches are structural - must stay.


Elevator cages will be enclosed and the cars replaced w modern equipment (n.b. Up and Down lights)


The tin ceiling in the basement is too far gone.
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  #26715  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
I've seen people confuse the two parks. Here:


Also, Google Maps already has the new path layout for MDP. That's cool.
Thanks - I was confused, thought Skate Park refereed to the Ice Skating Park.
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  #26716  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 8:37 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by brian_b View Post
I haven't been here long enough to know how they got that way, but right now gross mismanagement, complacency and a fear of change is preventing a lot of improvement.
I'll give you a hint, demographics. 86% of the CPS student body is low income. Suburbs just price people out and whoop, all's great. How about some affordable housing in Naperville or Libertyville? The middle class abandoned CPS in 60-80s and that's why it's the way it is. Look at the CPS neighborhood schools that are doing well. A group of local parents decided to send their kids and now these schools are improving and in some cases better than top suburban schools. The CPS school that my kids go to had a student body of about 300 10 years ago and was about 90% low income. Today, the school has about 600 kids and is 45% low income. It's a viable alternative for middle and upper income families, most of which would not have considered it 10 years ago. All because a group of local parents decided to send their kids to the school and slowly but surely it turned around. Now of course, housing prices are skyrocketing in the neighborhood, partially because of this. Houses literally right outside the attendance area sell for half of those inside. Not sure what can be done about that.
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  #26717  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 9:57 PM
brian_b brian_b is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I'll give you a hint, demographics. 86% of the CPS student body is low income. Suburbs just price people out and whoop, all's great. How about some affordable housing in Naperville or Libertyville? The middle class abandoned CPS in 60-80s and that's why it's the way it is. Look at the CPS neighborhood schools that are doing well. A group of local parents decided to send their kids and now these schools are improving and in some cases better than top suburban schools. The CPS school that my kids go to had a student body of about 300 10 years ago and was about 90% low income. Today, the school has about 600 kids and is 45% low income. It's a viable alternative for middle and upper income families, most of which would not have considered it 10 years ago. All because a group of local parents decided to send their kids to the school and slowly but surely it turned around. Now of course, housing prices are skyrocketing in the neighborhood, partially because of this. Houses literally right outside the attendance area sell for half of those inside. Not sure what can be done about that.
I'm in my neighborhood school once a week or so. For every low income parent (and the school is >90% low income) that screams in my (and other neighborhood parents) face that us uppity white folks just want to ruin their school, I have 6 that want to work with us to make things better. The principal just stands there and says that's something that the parents have to work out on their own. Not his problem. When a teacher asked us for something that was needed in her classroom, we found a local business that had what she needed and donated it. He screamed at us about how wrong it was to do something that benefits a single classroom and will only allow donations that are for the benefit of the entire school (or that he gets to dole out as he sees fit). This has the effect of preventing parents from working to make their child's classroom better, little by little. He knows this and doesn't deny it. To prevent teachers from talking to us, he has gone as far as locking them out of our meetings.

Furthermore, the CPS Options Lottery is completely screwed up. A very large number of students at the school come from the lottery and not from the neighborhood. These parents are rarely involved - some only because it is not really possible. The lottery process is mismanaged. A parent can accept and enroll in as many schools as they want through this program. There is no tracking. A parent told me that they had their kid enrolled in 4 different CPS schools and decided after the school year started which school he wanted. After a week of no-shows, CPS offers that slot to someone on the waiting list. After school has been in session for a week. Secondly, there is no requirement that any student in the options program must meet any academic or behavioral standards. Have a child that does nothing but disrupts his classroom, gets suspended constantly and has generally worn out his welcome? Put him in the options lottery for next year where he can do it all over again at a new school! Screw the good kids in the bad neighborhoods that would really prosper in a better school!

I don't know how long your child has been in your local school and how long you've been involved, but I assure you that the school wasn't just wasting away until one day a few parents decided to care. It took a large enough bloc of parents a long enough time that CPS could no longer prevent the parents from forcing change.
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  #26718  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 10:03 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by brian_b View Post
I'm in my neighborhood school once a week or so. For every low income parent (and the school is >90% low income) that screams in my (and other neighborhood parents) face that us uppity white folks just want to ruin their school, I have 6 that want to work with us to make things better. The principal just stands there and says that's something that the parents have to work out on their own. Not his problem. When a teacher asked us for something that was needed in her classroom, we found a local business that had what she needed and donated it. He screamed at us about how wrong it was to do something that benefits a single classroom and will only allow donations that are for the benefit of the entire school (or that he gets to dole out as he sees fit). This has the effect of preventing parents from working to make their child's classroom better, little by little. He knows this and doesn't deny it. To prevent teachers from talking to us, he has gone as far as locking them out of our meetings.

Furthermore, the CPS Options Lottery is completely screwed up. A very large number of students at the school come from the lottery and not from the neighborhood. These parents are rarely involved - some only because it is not really possible. The lottery process is mismanaged. A parent can accept and enroll in as many schools as they want through this program. There is no tracking. A parent told me that they had their kid enrolled in 4 different CPS schools and decided after the school year started which school he wanted. After a week of no-shows, CPS offers that slot to someone on the waiting list. After school has been in session for a week. Secondly, there is no requirement that any student in the options program must meet any academic or behavioral standards. Have a child that does nothing but disrupts his classroom, gets suspended constantly and has generally worn out his welcome? Put him in the options lottery for next year where he can do it all over again at a new school! Screw the good kids in the bad neighborhoods that would really prosper in a better school!

I don't know how long your child has been in your local school and how long you've been involved, but I assure you that the school wasn't just wasting away until one day a few parents decided to care. It took a large enough bloc of parents a long enough time that CPS could no longer prevent the parents from forcing change.
Yes it took quite a while to turnaround and a good amount of hard work from quite a few dedicated families. Sounds like your school needs a new principal.
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  #26719  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 10:12 PM
brian_b brian_b is offline
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Yes it took quite a while to turnaround and a good amount of hard work from quite a few dedicated families. Sounds like your school needs a new principal.
Well, yes.
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  #26720  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 10:24 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Well, yes.
Do you know people on the LSC?
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