[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Guys of the forum......... for those of you who love Kings Wharf (as much as I do), expect a MAJOR announcement either last week of Feb or First week of March. I have to be a debbie downer on this however as the design they went with will involve a road realignment, and we can be rest assured that NORWAY will hear the screams from O'Leary. My good friend just showed me the render on his PC and while it is stunningly beautiful there is no way this will pass council......unless there is a Miracle of some sort.

oh dear

this will probably rush through other proposals at the same time which are "less offensive" like what happened with 351 while the old fortis battle was happening

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

oh dear

this will probably rush through other proposals at the same time which are "less offensive" like what happened with 351 while the old fortis battle was happening

I friggen hope so

[Architype]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

So I made a conceptual rendering .. these are not the official renderings they are just buildings based on the rumors we have been talking about with similar heights etc just so you can see what these areas would look like with buildings in them I'm sure the actual renderings will be blow your mind better than mine hahahahahaha



looks like in the future if similar developments happen, downtown could start to get very dense and urbanized

Great job on the render, now if only they could make that happen. However it's not likely to happen at those heights especially in the East end.

[statbass]

Holy cow, I skip reading the forums for a couple of days and come back to talks about multiple developments, including a 23 storey tower... awesome stuff!

Just to let you guys know, my wife gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy on Dec 28; things are looking fantastic so far in 2013!

[AllBlack]

Congrats statbass...!!

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by statbass

Holy cow, I skip reading the forums for a couple of days and come back to talks about multiple developments, including a 23 storey tower... awesome stuff!

Just to let you guys know, my wife gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy on Dec 28; things are looking fantastic so far in 2013!

Congrats Statbass!!

And christopher, that is really too bad about the 23 story proposal. I still can't wait to hear news but I'm not getting my hopes up for it to be passed. I wish people here would finally get on board with development and realize it's not something we just like to do, It's necessary to grow and thrive and the time is now. Jeddy, Please run, we desperately need people like you on council. But like you said, I hope this will at least cause enough uproar that other proposals get approved under the radar.

I still can't wait to hear more on this project, but I'm not getting my hopes up which is quite sad

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Guys of the forum......... for those of you who love Kings Wharf (as much as I do), expect a MAJOR announcement either last week of Feb or First week of March. I have to be a debbie downer on this however as the design they went with will involve a road realignment, and we can be rest assured that NORWAY will hear the screams from O'Leary. My good friend just showed me the render on his PC and while it is stunningly beautiful there is no way this will pass council......unless there is a Miracle of some sort.

Obviously the east/centre of downtown is still a better location for offices but do you know why, if you can share, the developer hasn't proposed this development for the west end?

[jeddy1989]

It must be because of the views and because they can be practically on the water and right in the middle of banks and shops etc.

however you would think they would KNOW that its much better to propose in the west end

[Townie709]

But really, what is in the west end?? Nothing. No banks, shops or pedestrian traffic. Just some run down houses and a church. I don't blame developers for wanting to build on water street because it is our downtown. Right now, it is really the only dense, vibrant, activity filled street in the downtown. Will it always be that way? I hope not. I would love to see the west end thrive.

Will people pay as much for an apartment/condo in the west end among the ghettos, as they will to be right in the center of everything on water street? I certainly wouldn't, haha.

I would love to see the west end filled in with highrises, but right now I can't blame developers for wanting to build on water street. As long as the project is somewhat set back towards harbour drive and preserves some kind of heritage facade on Water Street than I say go as tall as you want.

Unfortunately, many in this city don't feel the same way and will shut down any development before even thinking about the benefits it brings. We say 2013 is going to be an exciting year but it could just be a very disappointing year if we shut down the most exciting developments ever proposed in this city and elect another anti-development council. I'm not sure how this year will go. I hope it will be a great year for development and proposals, but something in the back of my head tells me it's going to be a very frustrating and disappointing year. Only time will tell

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Townie709

But really, what is in the west end?? Nothing. No banks, shops or pedestrian traffic. Just some run down houses and a church. I don't blame developers for wanting to build on water street because it is our downtown. Right now, it is really the only dense, vibrant, activity filled street in the downtown. Will it always be that way? I hope not. I would love to see the west end thrive.

Will people pay as much for an apartment/condo in the west end among the ghettos, as they will to be right in the center of everything on water street? I certainly wouldn't, haha.

I would love to see the west end filled in with highrises, but right now I can't blame developers for wanting to build on water street. As long as the project is somewhat set back towards harbour drive and preserves some kind of heritage facade on Water Street than I say go as tall as you want.

Unfortunately, many in this city don't feel the same way and will shut down any development before even thinking about the benefits it brings. We say 2013 is going to be an exciting year but it could just be a very disappointing year if we shut down the most exciting developments ever proposed in this city and elect another anti-development council. I'm not sure how this year will go. I hope it will be a great year for development and proposals, but something in the back of my head tells me it's going to be a very frustrating and disappointing year. Only time will tell

I agree, the west end isn't developed enough yet to seem attractive, that's why there needs to be clear instructions and incentives from council for creating the highrise west end DT, including eliminating height limits there and making it inviting for the major developments..

Edit: the council needs to recognize this as a solution and even highlight sites for possible major developments and even implement a height minimum .. in order to take advantage of the area and relieve pressure on the East end DT. It would start to become more desirable and when more developments are there the place will clean up .. even if they create a strategy and make the streets look nicer add some beautification to the west end DT, maybe make one of the streets pedestrian and add some aesthetically appealing things to it such as sculptures or I dunno, some urban things that are inviting to the public. make it the official central business district ... without clarification and incentives, developers are going to go where the market wants them ..

[Townie709]

Great strides definitely have to be made to humanize the area and make it more attractive! I like the idea of height minimums, but that would never happen here, haha. We need residential developments to increase density and I think a good idea would make it mandatory for every development have retail space on the bottom. Jeddy, you have excellent ideas that would be so great to have on council

[PoscStudent]

Excellent post councillor!

I agree that council needs policies that will help growth in the west end. One thing that would have been a good idea, though it's a bit late now, is have the developers who are currently building there contribute a certain amount of money to a municipal infrastructure project in the area. I am pretty sure that in CBS, Paradise and I think St. John's, developers who put in new subdivisions are required to pay to cost-share or lay a certain area of sidewalks per house built. Something similar could be looked at for commercial buildings, if there's not already something similar in place.

I also think the city could look at having a lower business tax rate for a few years to companies who setup in the west end. We must be able to learn something from other cities on how to increase development in a certain area.

Originally Posted by Townie709

Great strides definitely have to be made to humanize the area and make it more attractive! I like the idea of height minimums, but that would never happen here, haha. We need residential developments to increase density and I think a good idea would make it mandatory for every development have retail space on the bottom. Jeddy, you have excellent ideas that would be so great to have on council

Height minimums may leave a lot of land undeveloped as well though. I like the idea in theory but I don't think it could ever work well.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Great strides definitely have to be made to humanize the area and make it more attractive! I like the idea of height minimums, but that would never happen here, haha. We need residential developments to increase density and I think a good idea would make it mandatory for every development have retail space on the bottom. Jeddy, you have excellent ideas that would be so great to have on council

thanks

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

thanks

Anytime

Now i'm going to sleep, enough of this for one day! we'll pick it up bright and early tomorrow morning

[techie]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Obviously the east/centre of downtown is still a better location for offices but do you know why, if you can share, the developer hasn't proposed this development for the west end?

You can only propose a development on land you own or have a relationship with the owner of. If they have an interest in the bowering or the templetons site, then that is where they will be building, and they need to plan a building to suit the site, not the other way around.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Townie709

But really, what is in the west end?? Nothing. No banks, shops or pedestrian traffic. Just some run down houses and a church.

I love it.

Good points, all, on this page. I especially wish we would implement Jeddy's suggestion.

We have a VERY small CBD - and a very uniquely beautiful one - in a city that is growing very quickly. Destroying our heritage and replacing it with an equally small modern CBD would be a disaster - we'd lose the heart of St. John's and become just another anywhere city, like so many others on the mainland. And we wouldn't even get much from it. We certainly wouldn't be a better Halifax, or Toronto. We'd just be a shitty, second-rate modern city.

We'd be what Lunenburg would become if it decided to replace its heritage with modern buildings appropriate to a town of its size: nothing worth talking about.

But bringing the hammer down on tall or insufficiently heritage conscious proposals in the East End, making it VERY clear they will NEVER happen, while simultaneously making the West End attractive as per Jeddy's suggestions, would be a good solution.

We'd develop a much bigger CBD as we grow the West End, which we're going to need, and become an even more uniquely beautiful city that still has its old town intact and, I hope, even restored eventually.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by techie

You can only propose a development on land you own or have a relationship with the owner of. If they have an interest in the bowering or the templetons site, then that is where they will be building, and they need to plan a building to suit the site, not the other way around.

Well a large national developer is supposedly behind this, if they want a piece of land it shouldn't be much issue to get.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I love it.

Good points, all, on this page. I especially wish we would implement Jeddy's suggestion.

We have a VERY small CBD - and a very uniquely beautiful one - in a city that is growing very quickly. Destroying our heritage and replacing it with an equally small modern CBD would be a disaster - we'd lose the heart of St. John's and become just another anywhere city, like so many others on the mainland. And we wouldn't even get much from it. We certainly wouldn't be a better Halifax, or Toronto. We'd just be a shitty, second-rate modern city.

We'd be what Lunenburg would become if it decided to replace its heritage with modern buildings appropriate to a town of its size: nothing worth talking about.

But bringing the hammer down on tall or insufficiently heritage conscious proposals in the East End, making it VERY clear they will NEVER happen, while simultaneously making the West End attractive as per Jeddy's suggestions, would be a good solution.

We'd develop a much bigger CBD as we grow the West End, which we're going to need, and become an even more uniquely beautiful city that still has its old town intact and, I hope, even restored eventually.

Ryan for the love of God put down your camera lense and try to plan for the future. Just because we have a small CBD NOW does not mean it will always be small. Btw YES we most certainly CAN become a better Halifax, all we need is a proper council that don't mind telling the Rubber Boot Gang and the Arts Clique to SHUT THE HELL UP!

[SignalHillHiker]

Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm not planning for the future, Chris. And telling me to put down my camera as though I'm not a thinking human being is just rude.

I think extending our CBD to the west - perhaps as far west as the intersection of Topsail and Waterford Bridge roads - is clearly planning for the future.

The idea that we have to bulldoze everything we are "for the future" is growing tiresome to me. In my opinion, it's a reflection of low self-esteem, of self-hatred, of the mistaken belief that whatever differentiates us from the mainland makes us worse.

I don't believe in any of that. I think St. John's is one of the most beautiful, unique cities in Canada - and I'm sure most of our residents and tourists would agree with me. I wouldn't wish away our heritage for anything - least of all for a few small city towers in the Downtown East End.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm not planning for the future, Chris. And telling me to put down my camera as though I'm not a thinking human being is just rude.

I think extending our CBD to the west - perhaps as far west as the intersection of Topsail and Waterford Bridge roads - is clearly planning for the future.

The idea that we have to bulldoze everything we are "for the future" is growing tiresome to me. In my opinion, it's a reflection of low self-esteem, of self-hatred, of the mistaken belief that whatever differentiates us from the mainland makes us worse.

I don't believe in any of that. I think St. John's is one of the most beautiful, unique cities in Canada - and I'm sure most of our residents and tourists would agree with me. I wouldn't wish away our heritage for anything - least of all for a few small city towers in the Downtown East End.

Ryan we are not talking about only a few towers, I am talking about with the strong possibility that this project will get shot down, not only will we get the chance to finally change the Bowerings site for the better, but we will also no longer get the possibility to get EA Games/BioWare to open shop here in St. John's. They were going to be the anchor employer in the Office Tower portion. Now I am sorry if I offended you with the Camera reference, but I would much prefer to see 200 young smart educated people working(that's what they would be hiring if they open here) making good pay (their secretary's start off at 48k a year) rather than keeping Water Street and the HR Front stagnant and stale so people can take pictures.