Is it just me or is Washington DC extremely underrated as a city?

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

That is a perk that most people don’t have the benefit of utilizing.
“No public allowed” is not mass transit.

Private bus shuttles are obviously a perk and not "mass transit." What is your point?

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by craigs

Private bus shuttles are obviously a perk and not "mass transit." What is your point?

Somehow a private shuttle makes up for BART while DC Metro is extensive and consistent. It wasn’t my point…

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by pj3000

No one fought against the metro because it was a done & paid for deal. No scrounging up the funds nor competing with other cities in the state for funding was necessary. The decision was made to do it and it was done.

Republicans usually oppose public transportation (and public education) at all levels because transit workers can unionize and vote as a democrat bloc that can sway statewide elections and ballot issues. This happens all of the time, and it's in fact happening right now in many states in opposition to Republican-led post-Roe candidates, legislation, constitutional amendments, etc. In any of these matters where it comes down to the wire, an additional few hundred or thousand votes can sway a ballot issue one way or the other.

The District of Columbia, obviously, is not a state and so there is no state government that Democrats and Republicans can war over.

Also, much of the valuable land in the District of Columbia is owned by the Federal Government. This is completely different than any other U.S. city, where blue blood families often still control downtown land (often land leases beneath skyscrapers) and so will oppose the entirety of any subway project that is of greater benefit to a competing property.

[SWDC]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

DC's "ratedness" doesn't seem terribly out of alignment with what it delivers, IMO.

In fact, its status as the national capital of the most powerful nation on the planet gives it a much larger cultural footprint than it would otherwise have.

If any of the 4 big bos-wash metropolises are underrated, it's absolutely Philly.

Agree on Philly.

Regarding DC. I think people get so wrapped up on the National Mall/White House/Capitol, they stay concentrated in the federal portion. A lot of those type even stay in either that area or Crystal City, visit Arlington Cemetery in VA. I think they mostly take that in whereas the rest of the city where people live and culture outside of the federal government thrives. Small businesses, big chains, game stores, food, residential, bustling streets with on street dining. You’re just not going to get that on PA Ave or in the Federal dominated area.

I totally get it though. It’s hard to break-through the noise of the federal government and stuff to promote the city - especially when visitors specifically come to see the government, basically. Hopefully with some new initiatives the city can start to blend a bit and there won’t be DC the federal government and outside of it DC the city.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by SWDC

Agree on Philly.

Regarding DC. I think people get so wrapped up on the National Mall/White House/Capitol, they stay concentrated in the federal portion. A lot of those type even stay in either that area or Crystal City, visit Arlington Cemetery in VA. I think they mostly take that in whereas the rest of the city where people live and culture outside of the federal government thrives. Small businesses, big chains, game stores, food, residential, bustling streets with on street dining. You’re just not going to get that on PA Ave or in the Federal dominated area.

I totally get it though. It’s hard to break-through the noise of the federal government and stuff to promote the city - especially when visitors specifically come to see the government, basically. Hopefully with some new initiatives the city can start to blend a bit and there won’t be DC the federal government and outside of it DC the city.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying at all. We're saying those people who work at those federal institutions live in the neighborhoods you speak of and as a result, are not overly interesting either. The entire apparatus of the federal government affects the personality of the city (and region, for that matter), so it is by design rather constrained.

Don't get me wrong it is beautiful and the neighborhoods are leafy and lovely. I like them. But it is not underrated, which was the suggestion of the OP.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't think that's what anyone is saying at all. We're saying those people who work at those federal institutions live in the neighborhoods you speak of and as a result, are not overly interesting either. The entire apparatus of the federal government affects the personality of the city (and region, for that matter), so it is by design rather constrained.

Don't get me wrong it is beautiful and the neighborhoods are leafy and lovely. I like them. But it is not underrated, which was the suggestion of the OP.

This.
You have to live there to really notice how the area is affected by it. The people arent really friendly, and that goes for the suburbs too like Fairfax County.

Yea, its great on paper for salaries, incomes etc and it always will because of those jobs. But, there is a cold (?) feeling to the residents. Maybe not cold, stiff? I dont know how to describe it really. But its noticeable. When I moved to Chicago, I saw a difference for sure.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

Somehow a private shuttle makes up for BART while DC Metro is extensive and consistent. It wasn’t my point…

BART and the shuttles serve very different purposes. BART is perfectly fine for getting from the East Bay to SF (and SFO) and back whereas the shuttles shuttle tech workers from all over the Bay Area into SV where the companies are located which is heavily suburban though you still can get to SF proper from there via Caltrain.

[edale]

I think something that hasn't been said yet about DC that contributes to its feeling of rootlessness is the lack of visible ethnic groups and ethnic neighborhoods beside traditionally Black neighborhoods, which the city has quite a lot of.

What white ethnic group comes to mind when you think of DC? NYC, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cleveland all have Little Italy neighborhoods. Chicago is famous for the huge number of Poles that live there. Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Cincinnati are huge German cities with rich brewing histories, large Oktoberfests and the like. Detroit has the Polish community of Hamtramck. What comes to mind for DC? Nothing really for me.

Expanding beyond white ethnic groups, compare DC's Chinatown to its peers on the East Coast. It's Chipotle, Starbucks, and the Verizon store with Chinese characters over the English- basically a Chinatown in name only. Mount Pleasant is the closest thing I saw to a barrio, and even that is very small.

DC is very diverse, but it doesn't have that historic ethnic feel that many other cities have. I think that contributes to it feeling a bit sterile or lacking in local culture.

[SWDC]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't think that's what anyone is saying at all. We're saying those people who work at those federal institutions live in the neighborhoods you speak of and as a result, are not overly interesting either. The entire apparatus of the federal government affects the personality of the city (and region, for that matter), so it is by design rather constrained.

Don't get me wrong it is beautiful and the neighborhoods are leafy and lovely. I like them. But it is not underrated, which was the suggestion of the OP.

I think it depends on the neighborhood. Foggy Bottom and Capitol Hill are a couple leafy not overly interesting (yet pretty) areas but I’m biased and don’t have many ties or have people with ties to the federal government. Most of my network perks for fortune 500’s just so happened to be located in the area.

I think I saw Philadelphia mentioned several times as being underrated. I definitely think it’s criminally underrated. I don’t think DC is anywhere near the underrated, I just think the vast majority of DC is overshadowed by the Federal Gov (which I guess it should for visitors) but again. It’s nice to see the city trying to fuse the neighborhoods with character and flavor into the more federal area.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

What white ethnic group comes to mind when you think of DC? NYC, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cleveland all have Little Italy neighborhoods. Chicago is famous for the huge number of Poles that live there. Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Cincinnati are huge German cities with rich brewing histories, large Oktoberfests and the like. Detroit has the Polish community of Hamtramck. What comes to mind for DC? Nothing really for me.

For better or worse, DC sorta skipped over (relatively speaking) that whole "giant factories" phase of US urban development that attracted those legions of white ethnic working class euro-immigrants to the other cities mentioned.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

For better or worse, DC sorted skipped over (relatively speaking) that whole "giant factories" phase of US urban development that attracted those legions of white ethnic working class euro-immigrants to the other cities mentioned.

Exactly. DC was never about that -- it was never a factory/mill blue-collar city... it was not designed to be that. So why compare it to the "ethnic" immigrant working-class historically dominated cities like NYC, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc.?

[iheartthed]

I think there's an argument to be made that DC is/was the WASPiest major city, particularly of the big prewar cities. Maybe that's why it doesn't feel like there's a local culture to some.

[Crawford]

Native, white Washingtonians seem very WASPy. The ones that pronounce it Warshington. Their presence is especially heavy in NW DC and Montgomery County.

But DC has a large Jewish community, a decent-sized Persian community and draws from all over the map, so the white population should be fairly diverse.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Exactly. DC was never about that -- it was never a factory/mill blue-collar city... it was not designed to be that. So why compare it to the "ethnic" immigrant working-class historically dominated cities like NYC, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc.?

I understand that. My point is that, to me, the lack of these ethnic groups and neighborhoods makes DC feel more sterile than other cities. As a big city in the Bos-Wash corridor, it's a real outlier in this sense.

My last visit to Boston was on Columbus Day weekend. I was in the North End walking around with friends when we found ourselves in the middle of a parade. Apparently in Boston (and perhaps some other cities with large amounts of Italians) that holiday is a big deal for the local Italian American community. You had all these civic groups, Knights of Columbus, other Italian American groups and organizations walking through the streets. I didn't even really associate Columbus Day with Italian Americans, because it's not celebrated where I live. So to see elders, kids, and everyone in between parading through Little Italy was memorable and felt like a very Boston thing to experience. It added to my sense of the local culture there.

Experiencing Oktoberfest in Cincinnati has a similar effect. You get the sense of rootedness and distinct culture that's passed down from generation to generation. Even if you want to get away from ethnic groups, there are things like the Opening Day parade in Cincinnati that're really unique and part of the local culture. The Reds are one of the few teams who always open the season at home, and they're also the oldest team in baseball. There has been an Opening Day parade every year for over 100 years, and it really is a de facto local holiday. People take off work, kids miss school...it's a big deal that's celebrated by all. To me, these types of traditions are what helps establish a culture in a place, and I didn't experience much of that in DC at all.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by LA21st

But, there is a cold (?) feeling to the residents. Maybe not cold, stiff? I dont know how to describe it really. But its noticeable. When I moved to Chicago, I saw a difference for sure.

I know exactly how to describe it... it's called upper-middle to upper class white people, with an influential dose of WASP propriety.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think there's an argument to be made that DC is/was the WASPiest major city, particularly of the big prewar cities. Maybe that's why it doesn't feel like there's a local culture to some.

Right, the historical white culture of DC is not going to win any vibrance or fun points. But it is the culture that's present. Just like having a large population of working-class Italian is going to color another city's culture. It's not that white ethnic culture is not present in DC, it's just WASPy... staid and boring... and they prefer it that way, of course.

Originally Posted by edale

I understand that. My point is that, to me, the lack of these ethnic groups and neighborhoods makes DC feel more sterile than other cities. As a big city in the Bos-Wash corridor, it's a real outlier in this sense.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It does feel more sterile... because it is. Doesn't have the same grit, owing to its history and function. It's generally just nicer than Baltimore, Philly, and NYC overall, in terms of orderliness, cleanliness, and overall upkeep. Even the "bad" areas of DC proper actually look pretty damn nice in comparison.

Originally Posted by edale

Apparently in Boston (and perhaps some other cities with large amounts of Italians) that holiday is a big deal for the local Italian American community. You had all these civic groups, Knights of Columbus, other Italian American groups and organizations walking through the streets. I didn't even really associate Columbus Day with Italian Americans, because it's not celebrated where I live. So to see elders, kids, and everyone in between parading through Little Italy was memorable and felt like a very Boston thing to experience.

I guess I've always assumed that the whole Italian-Americans & Christopher Columbus thing is just common knowledge, but obviously that's just based on my own persepective.

It's definitely a big thing... I think it goes back to the days of discrimination and violence towards Italian immigrants in the late 19th/early 20th century. Italian-Americans started celebrating the holiday to rally together as a source of pride and "their" part in founding America.

A good friend of mine of Italian ancestry who I grew up with has a life-sized cardboard cutout of Columbus standing in his office...

[Segun]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Wrong. Philadelphia, Detroit, and Houston all have more black people.

I stand by my original statement.

I'm referring to metro of course, the DMV, P.G. county and the like.

Here's a source that has it at #4.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...20and%20Dallas.

If you combine Baltimore with DC, that makes it #2 in the country, past Atlanta.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by edale

Yes, DC's Black community has a unique and discernible local flavor, but I don't think it really crosses over to the white/other population there. I don't think white people in Dupont Circle are listening to gogo music and putting mumbo sauce on their wings. White people discovered Ben's Chili Bowl and acted like it was some great cultural institution, and when I went there it was literally a run of the mill diner with non-descript food that you could get anywhere in the US Wale and Oddissee aren't exactly household names, and for a city with such a large and historical Black population, it's kind of odd that there aren't more and better known people in entertainment who claim DC.

Black communities across the country have their own local culture and slang, but that rarely translates to the broader culture. I wouldn't say soul food is part of LA's culture just because there's a cluster of soul food restaurants around Crenshaw. Taco trucks and sidewalk vendors are part of LA culture though because they're everywhere, and people across the city, including all different races eat at them. Same with chili spots in Cincinnati-- they're in Black, white, rich, poor neighborhoods and everyone eats it. Hard to think of any such thing for DC. I think that's the type of thing people are getting at with the 'no local culture' claims.

Oh no city really has a Black culture that crosses over into "broader culture", though with Hip Hop, that's sort of changing (Take LA and look at Gangsta rap's influence on local slang and fashion, a source of civic pride now). This will be interesting to see in the future.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

the Opening Day parade in Cincinnati that're really unique and part of the local culture

Yeah the "fans" of the Washington Nationals have always seemed pretty fake to me. If Washington had retained a MLB team this entire time it could have been different (The Redskins do have some hardcore fans - the Wizards/Caps I don't know but I doubt it).

I went to the Reds Opening Day Parade this year for the first time since 2015 and it was absolutely massive - definitely the biggest and rowdiest crowd I've ever seen. In the past the parade used to lumber past completely empty blocks before reaching downtown but now it was jammed 10-people deep in OTR from the parkway up to the market. I remember watching dance teams do their routines in front of...nobody in this area 20 years ago.





Those two above were my photos - below are photos taken by a friend about a mile south at the same time:





This event has taken on a new dimension because now the townies came out in full force and reclaim downtown (albeit for just one day) from the professional class transplants. I saw a few come-lately yuppies (the sort who dominate Twitter think they now own the neighborhood) who had no idea what was going on. Every single thing in the parade is by locals and for locals so if you're a transplant you're just...not going to get it.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Yeah the "fans" of the Washington Nationals have always seemed pretty fake to me. If Washington had retained a MLB team this entire time it could have been different (The Redskins do have some hardcore fans - the Wizards/Caps I don't know but I doubt it).

I went to the Reds Opening Day Parade this year for the first time since 2015 and it was absolutely massive - definitely the biggest and rowdiest crowd I've ever seen. In the past the parade used to lumber past completely empty blocks before reaching downtown but now it was jammed 10-people deep in OTR from the parkway up to the market. I remember watching dance teams do their routines in front of...nobody in this area 20 years ago.


This event has taken on a new dimension because now the townies came out in full force and reclaim downtown (albeit for just one day) from the professional class transplants. I saw a few come-lately yuppies (the sort who dominate Twitter think they now own the neighborhood) who had no idea what was going on. Every single thing in the parade is by locals and for locals so if you're a transplant you're just...not going to get it.

I remember there used to be the tradition of the Reds used to open every season basically with a home game like the day before the rest of the teams started. A Reds home game was the baseball opener. That tradition ended in the 90s with most of baseball's traditions.

-Looking up why, it was of course because of ESPN which wanted a Sunday night opener with lots of games. And MLB took ESPN's money.

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Yeah the "fans" of the Washington Nationals have always seemed pretty fake to me. If Washington had retained a MLB team this entire time it could have been different (The Redskins do have some hardcore fans - the Wizards/Caps I don't know but I doubt it).

I went to the Reds Opening Day Parade this year for the first time since 2015 and it was absolutely massive - definitely the biggest and rowdiest crowd I've ever seen. In the past the parade used to lumber past completely empty blocks before reaching downtown but now it was jammed 10-people deep in OTR from the parkway up to the market. I remember watching dance teams do their routines in front of...nobody in this area 20 years ago.





Those two above were my photos - below are photos taken by a friend about a mile south at the same time:





This event has taken on a new dimension because now the townies came out in full force and reclaim downtown (albeit for just one day) from the professional class transplants. I saw a few come-lately yuppies (the sort who dominate Twitter think they now own the neighborhood) who had no idea what was going on. Every single thing in the parade is by locals and for locals so if you're a transplant you're just...not going to get it.

“I don’t know but I doubt it” should be the name of this thread.