FORT LAUDERDALE | 203 NE 3rd St | 545 FT | 48 FLOORS

[Altoic]

203 NE 3rd Street

This is going to the DRC in May, but I saw the filing listed on Loopnet already. They're probably asking for approval to then sell the land to a developer.

Specifics:

Units: 429
Parking Spaces: 432
Retail SF: 2,711
FT: 545
Floors: 48
Developer: Propco LLC
Architect: FSMY

Renderings:








Additional Photos:

[Dale]

What are the odds a developer will buy and use this design ?

[Altoic]

Fort Lauderdale has a long history of developments being sold off and used. I'd say there's a pretty good chance. Funnily enough, the tower right next to it was sold off to another developer before groundbreaking.

[Dale]

There have to be twenty or more +500-footers proposed.

Could as many as ten be built ?

[Altoic]

100%. Most developments are from trusted developers.

Some developments I'd be careful about are the one's proposed by Kushner. The company has shown to sell off the sites for a pretty penny when a developer calls. 300 W Broward is no exception sadly. I'd love to see it developed but 200 W Broward was just sold.. so you know.

Ombelle and 633 SE 3rd Ave are up in the air. The developers are from NYC and have a good track record, but they've been sitting on their properties for a while.

DNA and the twin towers by Naftali are good to go.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Dale

There have to be twenty or more +500-footers proposed.

Could as many as ten be built ?

Originally Posted by Altoic

100%. Most developments are from trusted developers.

Some developments I'd be careful about are the one's proposed by Kushner. The company has shown to sell off the sites for a pretty penny when a developer calls. 300 W Broward is no exception sadly. I'd love to see it developed but 200 W Broward was just sold.. so you know.

Ombelle and 633 SE 3rd Ave are up in the air. The developers are from NYC and have a good track record, but they've been sitting on their properties for a while.

DNA and the twin towers by Naftali are good to go.

There's so many 500+ ft towers being proposed in Ft lauderdale, that there needs to be more variance in the skyline when it comes to height, meaning that there should be some 600+ and 700+ ft towers, a few 800+ ft, one 900+, and hopefully at least one supertall, and the BS FAA height limits are practically artificially stunting what can be another fascinating skyline in South FL.

[Altoic]

Agreed. Fort Lauderdale is going to have a jarring 500 FT plateau if this development pattern continues. I think 600 FT can be proposed and even as high as 700 FT but someone please correct me on that.

It would be a gift to see a supertall proposed in FTL just to test the waters for how high the FAA can go. Sometimes just applying and seeing what they say can lead to surprises. Nobody thought a supertall could be proposed on the site of MiamiCentral but the FAA surprisingly approved something like 990 FT.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Altoic

Agreed. Fort Lauderdale is going to have a jarring 500 FT plateau if this development pattern continues. I think 600 FT can be proposed and even as high as 700 FT but someone please correct me on that.

It would be a gift to see a supertall proposed in FTL just to test the waters for how high the FAA can go. Sometimes just applying and seeing what they say can lead to surprises. Nobody thought a supertall could be proposed on the site of MiamiCentral but the FAA surprisingly approved something like 990 FT.

A lot of misconceptions about the FAA's authority.

The FAA doesn't have the authority to tell owners how high a building can be. But property owners near airports are supposed to apply to the FAA before construction for a determination on whether a proposed building or renovation presents a hazard to navigation. Erecting a building that the FAA says is a hazard is akin to building in a flood plain — insurance rates go up, mortgages are harder to get and property values decrease. Local zoning laws often don't permit construction of buildings determined to be an aviation hazard.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ings/11441517/

[Altoic]

Interesting, thanks for sharing! As the article you quoted says, the FAA determining a building as hazardous to the air space is still thwarting the height through denied construction permits, etc.

I don't know of a case where a developer applied for 700 FT in fort lauderdale, but I've seen as high as 650 FT. It would be interesting to see what the FAA says with something higher.

[Dale]

If the FAA does not possess dictatorial powers, why do developers back down so often when height limitations are issued !

[C.]

Originally Posted by Dale

If the FAA does not possess dictatorial powers, why do developers back down so often when height limitations are issued !

Because it's local zoning that has the authority. Municipalities usually follow the lead of the FAA.

There are ways to mitigate impacts when the FAA determines that a building will have an impact on navigation. In short, adding lights and such can help get approval.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Altoic

Agreed. Fort Lauderdale is going to have a jarring 500 FT plateau if this development pattern continues. I think 600 FT can be proposed and even as high as 700 FT but someone please correct me on that.

Eventually, there's going to be developers that will propose something higher than 600' in Fort Lauderdale soon, especially since Ft Lauderdale is only 30 min away from Miami, and the demand in Miami is much higher than supply, astronomically raising Miami rents to it's highest mark ever.

Ft Lauderdale would be the perfect alternative to Miami when it comes to rents and mortgages, since it's not as high profile as Miami, and can also be a more affordable alternative to Miami when it comes to business leases. As Miami grows, it would only be exigent for other cities in South FL such as West Palm Beach, Boca Raton, Pompano Beach, Hialeah, Kendall, and especially Ft Lauderdale to build more residential and commercial units to satisfy the regional demand for residential and commercial space.

Originally Posted by Altoic

It would be a gift to see a supertall proposed in FTL just to test the waters for how high the FAA can go. Sometimes just applying and seeing what they say can lead to surprises. Nobody thought a supertall could be proposed on the site of MiamiCentral but the FAA surprisingly approved something like 990 FT.

It would make a lot of sense to move the FAA baseline from Miami Ave to the Metrorail ROW. In Downtown Miami, you have plenty of land, but not as much in Brickell, which is why I proposed moving the boundary line one block west along the ROW just to allow for more parcels of land for the possibility of building supertalls along the Metrorail in Brickell.

Originally Posted by C.

Because it's local zoning that has the authority. Municipalities usually follow the lead of the FAA.

There are ways to mitigate impacts when the FAA determines that a building will have an impact on navigation. In short, adding lights and such can help get approval.

One question is how high can the airplanes be during takeoff and landing once it reaches downtown Miami and downtown Ft Lauderdale??? If there are aeronautic experts on here, I'd like to know, as I'm estimating that once it reaches downtown Miami, the planes have to be about no higher than 10K feet from the ground. If that were the case, then why not build higher than the 1049' that Miami is stunted to?

I believe that planes that are about the land or takeoff from FLL do not cross over downtown Ft Lauderdale by any means, especially since FLL is the closest airport to the shore, while MIA is about 5 miles away from the shore and mainly inland.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

Eventually, there's going to be developers that will propose something higher than 600' in Fort Lauderdale soon, especially since Ft Lauderdale is only 30 min away from Miami, and the demand in Miami is much higher than supply, astronomically raising Miami rents to it's highest mark ever.

Ft Lauderdale would be the perfect alternative to Miami when it comes to rents and mortgages, since it's not as high profile as Miami, and can also be a more affordable alternative to Miami when it comes to business leases. As Miami grows, it would only be exigent for other cities in South FL such as West Palm Beach, Boca Raton, Pompano Beach, Hialeah, Kendall, and especially Ft Lauderdale to build more residential and commercial units to satisfy the regional demand for residential and commercial space.





It would make a lot of sense to move the FAA baseline from Miami Ave to the Metrorail ROW. In Downtown Miami, you have plenty of land, but not as much in Brickell, which is why I proposed moving the boundary line one block west along the ROW just to allow for more parcels of land for the possibility of building supertalls along the Metrorail in Brickell.



One question is how high can the airplanes be during takeoff and landing once it reaches downtown Miami and downtown Ft Lauderdale??? If there are aeronautic experts on here, I'd like to know, as I'm estimating that once it reaches downtown Miami, the planes have to be about no higher than 10K feet from the ground. If that were the case, then why not build higher than the 1049' that Miami is stunted to?

I believe that planes that are about the land or takeoff from FLL do not cross over downtown Ft Lauderdale by any means, especially since FLL is the closest airport to the shore, while MIA is about 5 miles away from the shore and mainly inland.

Just so you know, Fort Lauderdale is just as unaffordable as Miami. According to RentCafe, the average rent is actually higher in Fort Lauderdale than Miami.

Ft Lauderdale's issue isn't flight paths, but, proximity to the airport. Also, there isn't a height limit in downtown from the City, however, the City does have a height limit outside it's downtown RAC zone.

I found the below guide from Broward County for the FAA guidelines. Downtown is where the rivers combine in the top 500ft zone, so it seems buildings greater than 500ft will have a more difficult application process with the department. Perhaps all it takes is throwing money and having proper exhibits when applying for FAA approval.
FLLHWO_COMPOSITE by Andrew Linhares, on Flickr


https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...vg&oe=66413B7D

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

Just so you know, Fort Lauderdale is just as unaffordable as Miami. According to RentCafe, the average rent is actually higher in Fort Lauderdale than Miami.

Ft Lauderdale's issue isn't flight paths, but, proximity to the airport. Also, there isn't a height limit in downtown from the City, however, the City does have a height limit outside it's downtown RAC zone.

I found the below guide from Broward County for the FAA guidelines. Downtown is where the rivers combine in the top 500ft zone, so it seems buildings greater than 500ft will have a more difficult application process with the department. Perhaps all it takes is throwing money and having proper exhibits when applying for FAA approval.

I guessing the real reason why rents are higher in Ft Lauderdale as opposed to Miami is due to a lot of immigrants from the Caribbean and Latin America still migrating to Miami-Dade, while most of the migrants that go to Ft Lauderdale and Broward tend to be more domestic, and since Americans make more money than the average immigrant, of course, that may jack up the rates.

You're right about Downtown Ft Lauderdale not being anywhere close to FLL's takeoff and landing flight paths, but just looking at the height chart of FLL and North Perry Airport (needs to be close and replaced further inland, IMHO), it's utterly ridiculous that Ft Lauderdale is artificially stunted, especially since flight paths don't cross downtown at all, and FLL is only 4.5 miles from downtown.

At the very least, I'd love to see the 500' limit raised to 1100', that way, there's a sure possibility that maybe a couple of supertalls can be erected in downtown, as well as some 700, 800, and 900 footers in downtown. There may not be any space left considering that Miami is only 36 sq. mi., and Downtown Ft. Lauderdale would be a perfect alternative in case Downtown Miami is either too expensive or no more commercial space left.

[Altoic]

Slight changes in the podium- now has more glass.