I'm not one to let the truth get in the way of a good internets argument, but I get a kick out of pointing out factual inaccuracies put forth by people trying to make a point. Call it a character flaw if you'd like. In no particular order...
1. The photo is not of the Thousand Oaks 'exit'. That is indeed Thousand Oaks Blvd at the signalized intersection, however the line of cars exiting to the right would be the Donella/Henderson Pass Exit. The remaining four lanes of traffic not exiting the freeway are headded straight towards the area of 281 which is germaine to the debate here. in fact, there is only one exit remining (which is 1604 east/west) that all these drivers could take before they get to 281 north of 1604. This exit for 1604 being just 1/4 mile beyond the top of the photo, its likely that the majority of these commuters in the northbound lanes are continuing on north.
2. Using the pricing to show tolls would be a burden on drivers making the 22 mile roundtrip drive. Roundtrip pricing for the full 22 miles of 281 from 1604 to the Comal county line (an length not expected to be completed before 2017) was stated as about $20 a week. If a resident lived at the comal county line and worked in downtown SA, they commute roundtrip approximately 44 miles a day anyhow, and I can assure you that they already plan for expenses associated with their commute. Living out there and commuting to DT is a choice. Especially with gas costs and all - there are plenty of closer alternatives. Those that move to the area already factor in transportation costs to dt. My family lives in Sugar Land (Pecan Grove) and are not only happy to have the Westpark tollway to take into town, they could care less how many lights are on the free alternative.
3. No existing lanes are disappearing. 'Toll lanes' is actually a misnomer. the 281 N project is actually the addition of tolled 'express lanes.' There will be no additional stops and actually will include more non-tolled lanes than exist now. Of course the already constructed lanes will have to be moved out from their current position. Since you cant 'pick up' traffic lanes and physically move them, they will be demolished and rebuilt further out, to make room for the express lanes. This should provide for a better drive, as this will be a completely new road surface, with state-of-the-art engineering (drainage, lighting and signage) where currently stands an old county road never intended to carry urban traffic.
4. the existing lanes of 281 North of 1604 are not a freeway anyhow. They exist in a divided highway with stoplights at intersections. In Texas vernacular , freeway is any divided road with no signalized intersections and no at-grade cross-traffic. 281 north of 1604 does not currently meet that standard. It's a lose-lose game with the anti-toll folx. They demanded an upgrade to 281, saying that the at-grade crossings were a deathtrap (in many cases they were) and demanded those crossings be signalized. The county finds the few million dollars to do so, then the anti-toll folks cry fowl saying that its the traffic lights are whats causing the congestion.
5. Someone complained that their grandparents had already paid for 281 as is. The real anger should be directed at our legislators who are more interested in giving tax breaks to voters to secure re-election than sound transportation planning. It's these legislators who handed the homeowners of Texas a tax break in the last legislative session, and raided billions of dollars in gas taxes already marked for projects to balance the state budget. Also, this excursion in Iraq has resulted in belt tightening at the federal level that has already resulted in cancellation or delays in projects that were set to begin this year including upgrading 3009 between Nacogdoces and IH-35 and IH-10 between Huebner and 1604 to 6 lanes each way (from the current 3). So we're stuck with doing more with less and no one is pointing a finger at the real villans here - the lege.
6. Texboy claimed that the Upgrade/Expansion of 281 North was already paid for and the funding was diverted elsewhere. Not the case,and shows he doesn't have an understanding of how roads are actually funded. I'll assume he doesn't have a Masters in Public Admin, so its an understandable shortcoming. Brian from
http://texhwyman.home.att.net/san.htm has already explained this point better than I could, so I'll use his words. " While public documents on 281 from around 2000 show that the original project to extend the 281 freeway from Sonterra to Stone Oak was "funded", laypeople have to understand that highway funding (and government funding in general) is a very peculiar beast. A "funded" project in transportation parlance means that TxDOT and/or the MPO have identified a time in the future when projected revenues (from all applicable sources) should be available to pay for a specific project, and they budget that expected revenue for that project. But that doesn't mean they actually have the money in-hand and have put it in an account just for that project, only that they expect to have it at a certain point in the future. Lots of things can happen between the time a project is "funded" and when it's actually let for contract. For instance, the expected revenue may not materialize (which is what we're seeing right now with the federal highway funding pull-back), another project may take priority and the funding reallocated to it, the queued project may increase in cost simply because of inflation and, thus, the revenue will be insufficient to fund it, or the project may be sidetracked for a while to allow for engineering changes, which can be caused by any number of things (the world is not static after all.) So the "funded" nomenclature is really just a simple way of saying "we plan to be able to pay for it during this timeframe". It's kinda like if I budget to go on a big vacation a year from now. What happens if I have to buy a new car instead, or if I lose my job? Life is dynamic, and sometimes even the best laid plans get changed through outside influences."
7. nano called the 281 north toll project a moneymaker for transnational corporations. I'd suggest reading the express-news on occasion, because Alamo RMA (Alamo Regional Mobility Authority - the agency overseeing the project) has said for a year now that they would build and manage the project. Of course they will have to hire a contractor to physically run the bulldozers and pavers and all, and that has already gone up for bid. You can see a list of consortium teams here:
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblog...ion%20List.pdf and there's not a foreign owned company anywhere near that list. Most are locally recognizable firms (unintech, raba-kistner, guerra-deberra-coody, etc). It's also codified in state law now that foreign firms cant build and run (lease-back) the 281 project. Specifically the 281 project. It has its own little law. That should help you feel better.
8. arbeiter said our infrastructure here was in good enough shape. Say the same thing after spending an hour to move 4 miles stuck in that mess. I did it far too many times last summer cause my ex lived out there. I'd have paid anything to not have been caught up in all that nonsense. But it's not about his opinion or mine for that matter. Not adequately planning for the future is what got us all in this mess in the first place. Its embarassing that Austin Texas, the state capitol and MSA of 1 million + just got a complete freeway (tolled and non-tolled) loop around the city what, last year? Think back a decade ago when the only freeways in Austin were 35 and MoPac - two parallel, non connecting freeways. I'm sure some people said that was adequate as well. Where would austin be today had they not been their usual progressive selves and voted to MOVE forward and plan the extensive system they have now.
9. Normalge from Austin raised the point about toll roads being the only option in some areas. Austin and SA are apples and oranges in many areas, including this. Were only talking about tolled express lanes in addition to upgrading the existing free lanes. Since the topic is about 'Toll Roads in SA' lets keep on tpic. It's not fair to raise issues that are only specific to Austin at this point. SA's starter system has no plans for tolled roads in areas where a free alternative does not exist. A good idea to further discuss your displeasure with toll only projects in the Austin area would be to start a thread, because in this already ridiculously complex issue, adding in non-relevant information for people to debate only clouds the issue. But maybe that was your intent.
10. Shertz mentioned tolling 35 into town. Again, and for the 100th time, no one, anywhere is planning that - In fact, I challenge you to provide a plan by a governmental agency with that in mind. What's been discussed, and nothing more yet, is the idea of adding tolled EXPRESS lanes, just like what 281 will get and what is planned for the median of 1604 on the north side. The number and miles of free lanes will remain. If you're going to be so passionate about something, I'd at least encourage you to be correct in what you're passionate about - least you run the risk of looking foolish.
11. I'm sure we all agree that the existing vehicle culture is not the best system, but its not going to change overnight and we have to make tough decisions. Whats more equitable than to have only those who chose to use certain roads pay for those roads?
Now that we have that mess cleaned up, I'm gonna stir up another hornets nest by my summation. I'm for it, even though through the year 2020 probably less than 10% of Bexar county residents will even drive on a portion of it weekly. If it helps them get around faster, great. Bully for them. I think the whole debate can go back to SA being the world's largest small town, and a majority of folx here having a small town mindset. I knew from day one that it would be a struggle getting the people here to wrap their heads around the concept of paying to drive on a road. All the other major cities in Texas have embraced the concept of tolls as part of a comprehensive transportation plan. All those cities have also chosen to include light/commuter rail as an option which is pretty progressive. no one will ever accuse SA of being progressive. But I might even be able to understand SOME of the concerns if we were talking tolls only, but the only plans even being discussed is tolled express lanes, and people here are up in arms. To me, thats about as far from being progressive as you can get.