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SDfan May 29, 2015 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by embora (Post 7041916)
Micro Update: The crane is being built at the Blue Sky site.

I saw the crane going up the other day too. I'm excited because this is supposed to be an entry level buildings, not luxury like everything else being built these days in CA.

spoonman May 31, 2015 1:06 AM

Major airport project approved at Brown Field. The project will add new hangers, FBOs, a transit center, and commercial and industrial space attached or adjacent to the airport.

This development along with the Cross Border Airport Terminal is going to continue to increase business opportunity in the area. The biggest issue I can see is that there is very little land left for development. The Otay industrial area can't push much farther east without hitting mountains.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...227137951.html

http://hydroswing-hydraulic-doors.co...-(Brown-Field)

http://hydroswing-hydraulic-doors.co...rownField1.jpg

http://hydroswing-hydraulic-doors.co...rownField2.jpg

Bertrice May 31, 2015 3:37 AM

was this ever mentioned here. I saw it the other day on 14th.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...illage-school/
http://media.utsandiego.com/img/phot...053cbc530c46a8

The Flying Dutchman May 31, 2015 12:39 PM

I walk by this almost every day. They are slated to open up in September. It will be interesting to see school children in downtown in an area that is known to be a bum infested area. I've talked to the police and city officials and it sounds like now that have actual enforceable codes to stand behind.

spoonman Jun 1, 2015 8:59 PM

Anyone care to post pics they have from projects under construction?

mello Jun 1, 2015 10:25 PM

No pics but was just in Hillcrest and no action on the lot on Normal St across from the DMV just cleared with a fence. The small old house next to the giant Costume Shop building on El Cajon and Florida has been torn down hopefully the entire block is next, that area needs infill badly.

Side note if you have ever had a discussion with a 9/11 truther and been on the fence go walk around the new downtown courthouse. That thing is a beast with a huge network of core columns that are clearly visible. Talk about a solid structure and the World Trade Center was even more fortified, you really think the core columns would just disappear in a "pancake collapse" portrayed in the official story? Sorry off topic and not trying to start a debate it is just rare you get to look in to the skeleton of an uber strong structure like what we have at courthouse site now.

Bertrice Jun 2, 2015 4:22 AM

The riviera in las vegas closed to make way for a Las vegas Convention center expansion. hmmm I wonder why?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/travel...s-closes-feat/

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam...xlarge-169.jpg

travis bickle Jun 2, 2015 7:58 PM

Had a long conversation last week with some people very well-connected with SDSU and, of course, the topic of the stadium came up. These people are huge supporters of the athletic program at SDSU and are names you might recognize.

I was not surprised that they were dubious that the Chargers were staying and that a new, 65k plus stadium would be completed in Mission Valley. These are people who would know and they are very pessimistic and no longer believe the Chargers are negotiating in good faith. No news there.

But what did surprise me was how far along they seemed to be on a Plan B. This would entail building a 25k-35k stadium at the Mission Valley site in conjunction with a satellite campus and university-related village. This stadium would be a joint project with a MLS soccer team, one with whom they have apparently already had numerous discussions.

The stadium would be expandable for bowl games, although I don't see how you could double capacity to accommodate the Holiday Bowl.

My own hopes are that the plans for Mission Valley succeed. I've been to towns that have lost major sports teams. It's like someone kicked them in the guts. They simply are not the same. San Diego fools itself if it thinks the city, even those who are not fans, wouldn't feel it and feel it acutely. I am not a supporter of the downtown site that has been discussed and that the Chargers seem to favor. Downtown already has it catalysts and a stadium takes away too much revenue-generating land.

We'll see how the negotiations for a new stadium go, but it is clear that SDSU is working on an alternative should no deal to keep the Chargers in town be reached. This alternative produces a stadium better suited for the program's size and brings a MLS team to town.

As pessimism for saving the Chargers grows, look for this plan to gain traction...

SDCAL Jun 2, 2015 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis bickle (Post 7048257)
I've been to towns that have lost major sports teams. It's like someone kicked them in the guts. They simply are not the same. San Diego fools itself if it thinks the city, even those who are not fans, wouldn't feel it and feel it acutely.

Can you elaborate on what negative consequences you saw and in what cities? I've read and listened to various analysis on this, and they all seem to conclude that at least economically speaking the loss is not that great. Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University said losing a major baseball team is about equivalent to a city losing a mid-sized department store in an NPR interview I listened to. Baseball teams have more home games than football teams do, so the assumption is losing a major league football team would have a very small financial impact. Perhaps you are talking about non-economic consequences like a feeling of lost identity or losing a major cultural institution?

SDCAL Jun 2, 2015 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 7047455)
The riviera in las vegas closed to make way for a Las vegas Convention center expansion. hmmm I wonder why?

Interesting. I really think that ComicCon would go to LA or Anaheim befor they would consider LV. But this is distressing in generall because it shows a regional city moving forward with a bold move to attract large conventions while SD sits on our arse doing nothing to expand our convention center or trying to keep Comic Con.

mello Jun 2, 2015 9:30 PM

^^^ I am surprised that these very smart people actually think the Chargers would move to Carson. They are going to have to come out of pocket to the tune of 1.2 billion after relocation fees, land purchases, construction (Raiders have no money poorest ownership group in NFL) all to play a major second fiddle to the Raiders. Not going to happen. Once again if things just completely fall apart here they may eventually go pay Kroenke 70 million a year in rent to go play in his Inglewood palace.

Why aren't City/County officials and Chargers playing up the SDSU campus extension and MLS card to make this more of a "Metro Area Asset" than simply a "Chargers Stadium"? The PR on this is horrendous. Show people the benefits of having a state of the art facility and play to the heartstrings of the huge SDSU Alumni crowd that hey this is a big benefit to SD County not just for the Chargers.

dales5050 Jun 4, 2015 1:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7048359)
Can you elaborate on what negative consequences you saw and in what cities? I've read and listened to various analysis on this, and they all seem to conclude that at least economically speaking the loss is not that great. Michael Leeds, a sports economist at Temple University said losing a major baseball team is about equivalent to a city losing a mid-sized department store in an NPR interview I listened to. Baseball teams have more home games than football teams do, so the assumption is losing a major league football team would have a very small financial impact. Perhaps you are talking about non-economic consequences like a feeling of lost identity or losing a major cultural institution?


I think the most important thing to consider is not all cities are equal and comparing San Diego to any other city is faulty at it's core.

Also comparing baseball to football is a poor choice. As you pointed out, baseball has many more games than football. This is a huge difference.

Let's just look at the food and beverage industry in San Diego. Bars, outside of the ballpark area, do not staff differently for when a Padres game is on. But they do for Sunday football. Now a lot of this is based on people who are fans of other teams trying to watch their team play...but a lot of SD fans want to watch the game at a bar even if the Chargers are at home.

Beyond this if we look at other cities, you have even more variation. I know in cities like Buffalo were very concerned with the potential loss of the Bills. The Sundays during the NFL season make or break the year for many bars and pizza places. If you're not familiar with Buffalo, take all of the Mexican and Sushi places in San Diego and that's about how many Pizza and Wing places there are in Buffalo. And the region is a fraction of the size. The 'pizza and wings' production during Bills games is massive and there was a huge concern that most of these places would go under if the Bills left. Each of these places employed people, paid property tax and contributed to their neighborhoods. It would have been huge for most of these places to close.

Now San Diego is not Buffalo but that's the point. Maybe San Diego does not need the Chargers. Maybe the economy of San Diego would do better without the Chargers. But each city has their own special economy around their sports teams and unless the study is looking at the San Diego/Charger economy it does not mean much.

I don't know how much San Diego 'needs' the chargers but I do think comparing the loss of the Chargers to the loss of a baseball team in another city is pretty worthless.

SDfan Jun 4, 2015 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dales5050 (Post 7050207)
I think the most important thing to consider is not all cities are equal and comparing San Diego to any other city is faulty at it's core.

Also comparing baseball to football is a poor choice. As you pointed out, baseball has many more games than football. This is a huge difference.

Let's just look at the food and beverage industry in San Diego. Bars, outside of the ballpark area, do not staff differently for when a Padres game is on. But they do for Sunday football. Now a lot of this is based on people who are fans of other teams trying to watch their team play...but a lot of SD fans want to watch the game at a bar even if the Chargers are at home.

Beyond this if we look at other cities, you have even more variation. I know in cities like Buffalo were very concerned with the potential loss of the Bills. The Sundays during the NFL season make or break the year for many bars and pizza places. If you're not familiar with Buffalo, take all of the Mexican and Sushi places in San Diego and that's about how many Pizza and Wing places there are in Buffalo. And the region is a fraction of the size. The 'pizza and wings' production during Bills games is massive and there was a huge concern that most of these places would go under if the Bills left. Each of these places employed people, paid property tax and contributed to their neighborhoods. It would have been huge for most of these places to close.

Now San Diego is not Buffalo but that's the point. Maybe San Diego does not need the Chargers. Maybe the economy of San Diego would do better without the Chargers. But each city has their own special economy around their sports teams and unless the study is looking at the San Diego/Charger economy it does not mean much.

I don't know how much San Diego 'needs' the chargers but I do think comparing the loss of the Chargers to the loss of a baseball team in another city is pretty worthless.

The comparison isn't worthless. I think the point SDCAL was making was pretty legitimate, that in most instances the economic case for holding a major sports franchise like an NFL team is not very strong, and that the impact of a said teams exit from a market isn't a tailspin for the community. Now, in terms of cultural capital (which you didn't address in your response), I'm sure their are some more significant effects.

You can talk about "wings and pizza" all you want, but that's in a small rust belt city in upstate New York. This is San Diego, the eighth largest city in the US, a highly developed, diversified and growing 21st century economic center. We have problems (housing affordability, wage stagnation, middle income gap, gentrification displacement, drought, infrastructure deficiencies, poor transportation and land-use planning, high-regulatory burden... I could go on) but the Charger's leaving ain't one of them.

SDfan Jun 4, 2015 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis bickle (Post 7048257)
Had a long conversation last week with some people very well-connected with SDSU and, of course, the topic of the stadium came up. These people are huge supporters of the athletic program at SDSU and are names you might recognize.

I was not surprised that they were dubious that the Chargers were staying and that a new, 65k plus stadium would be completed in Mission Valley. These are people who would know and they are very pessimistic and no longer believe the Chargers are negotiating in good faith. No news there.

But what did surprise me was how far along they seemed to be on a Plan B. This would entail building a 25k-35k stadium at the Mission Valley site in conjunction with a satellite campus and university-related village. This stadium would be a joint project with a MLS soccer team, one with whom they have apparently already had numerous discussions.

The stadium would be expandable for bowl games, although I don't see how you could double capacity to accommodate the Holiday Bowl.

My own hopes are that the plans for Mission Valley succeed. I've been to towns that have lost major sports teams. It's like someone kicked them in the guts. They simply are not the same. San Diego fools itself if it thinks the city, even those who are not fans, wouldn't feel it and feel it acutely. I am not a supporter of the downtown site that has been discussed and that the Chargers seem to favor. Downtown already has it catalysts and a stadium takes away too much revenue-generating land.

We'll see how the negotiations for a new stadium go, but it is clear that SDSU is working on an alternative should no deal to keep the Chargers in town be reached. This alternative produces a stadium better suited for the program's size and brings a MLS team to town.

As pessimism for saving the Chargers grows, look for this plan to gain traction...

I hope State gets its hands on that land either way. They need more acreage to expand. I would rather be investing in education and housing than in an NFL stadium.

And I think there would be a deep sense of loss if the Chargers left... for the people who care. But, according to polling, it it's clear that there are not enough of those people to get the Chargers the money they need to stay.

Leo the Dog Jun 4, 2015 4:33 PM

San Diego Raiders?

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...s-carr-rivers/

Would never happen, but maybe a good tactic by SD to disrupt the Carson deal....?

spoonman Jun 4, 2015 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 7050420)
San Diego Raiders?

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...s-carr-rivers/

Would never happen, but maybe a good tactic by SD to disrupt the Carson deal....?

I love this idea because it would totally F--k the NFL. If the Raiders moved to SD and the Rams forced their way back to LA, the Chargers would have no where to go, as supposedly the NFL doesn't want 3 teams in SoCal.

I am a huge Charger fan, but I am losing my patience with this team. I am a San Diego fan first, and as much as I hate the Raiders, I would support them if they moved to SD.

dales5050 Jun 4, 2015 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7050309)
The comparison isn't worthless. I think the point SDCAL was making was pretty legitimate, that in most instances the economic case for holding a major sports franchise like an NFL team is not very strong, and that the impact of a said teams exit from a market isn't a tailspin for the community. Now, in terms of cultural capital (which you didn't address in your response), I'm sure their are some more significant effects.

Yes. Yes it is. I get the point SDCAL was trying to make but I stand by mine.

I am not saying one way or the other what the impact would be if the Chargers left. What I am saying is the only way to try and project this before the team left would be to only study the Chargers/San Diego economy.

Comparing to a baseball team in another city is silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7050309)
You can talk about "wings and pizza" all you want, but that's in a small rust belt city in upstate New York. This is San Diego, the eighth largest city in the US, a highly developed, diversified and growing 21st century economic center. We have problems (housing affordability, wage stagnation, middle income gap, gentrification displacement, drought, infrastructure deficiencies, poor transportation and land-use planning, high-regulatory burden... I could go on) but the Charger's leaving ain't one of them.

It's a bit amusing that you start off by saying that studies of different cities are comparable but then go on a rant about how San Diego is unlike Buffalo.

*facepalm*

I know San Diego is not Buffalo. I was simply using Buffalo as an example of their specific Bills/Buffalo economy. Buffalo may be a small and recovering rust belt city in Western New York but it's about to have 2 professional teams compared to 1 for San Diego. It's seen better days but it does a lot better job on housing affordability, wage stagnation, income gaps...oh and it has water. Lots and lots of water.

You very may well be correct that the Chargers leaving wouldn't put a major dent in the local economy but based on what I can infer from your posts...you're interaction with this economy is lacking.

Leo the Dog Jun 4, 2015 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7050522)
I love this idea because it would totally F--k the NFL. If the Raiders moved to SD and the Rams forced their way back to LA, the Chargers would have no where to go, as supposedly the NFL doesn't want 3 teams in SoCal.

I am a huge Charger fan, but I am losing my patience with this team. I am a San Diego fan first, and as much as I hate the Raiders, I would support them if they moved to SD.

Would be funny if the city of SD stuck it to Carson though.

This is getting complicated. From what I've heard, STL is moving along nicely on their new stadium process. Kroenke seems determined to bring the Rams to Ingelwood. The NFL won't allow 3 teams in SoCal...maybe all teams are just using big bad LA, to get their stadiums at home built.

Chargers could, in theory, move to San Antonio or perhaps St. Louis if these cities build an NFL stadium and LA gets two teams.

dtell04 Jun 4, 2015 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7050324)
I hope State gets its hands on that land either way. They need more acreage to expand. I would rather be investing in education and housing than in an NFL stadium.

And I think there would be a deep sense of loss if the Chargers left... for the people who care. But, according to polling, it it's clear that there are not enough of those people to get the Chargers the money they need to stay.

I just had to point out while the city and county would be undertaking a large financial commitment with the CSAG plan, operating the Q costs the city 10 million a year while a new stadium would be 7 million a year for th city's share. The CSAG plan had operations costs being funded by stadium revenue. So a new stadium saves the city 3 million a year...... In theory.

Nerv Jun 5, 2015 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7048364)
Interesting. I really think that ComicCon would go to LA or Anaheim befor they would consider LV. But this is distressing in generall because it shows a regional city moving forward with a bold move to attract large conventions while SD sits on our arse doing nothing to expand our convention center or trying to keep Comic Con.



They are already in LA. They also operate Wonder Con which is now in LA.

Talking with them over the years they want to stay in SD and don't blame the city since it tried and failed due to certain parties with their own interests.

Las Vegas is a non starter for them. No one is interested in a Vegas con. It works for things like trade shows but not what comic con is. The only thing it has going for it is size, everything else, not so good. All the talk of Vegas getting a con was mostly Vegas talking.


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