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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

alasi Apr 14, 2009 1:51 AM

We use them when we don't feel like walking back to our condo in Marina Park from the Gaslamp. They even let us take our dog for free (small dog, 10 lbs).

voice of reason Apr 14, 2009 5:40 AM

Hugo,
I never said I could walk it in 13 minutes, I said pedicab.
I said walking it in 30 min. or less, it is only 2 miles.
I forgot to add on the 8 minutes it takes to walk to the Kettner stop. I could walk almost to Broadway in that length of time.

I think a couple of you need a course in Tax and Public Policy at your local juniour college. On the internet I suppose making up statistics and misquoting adversaries is typical. That is one reason the San Diego thread is DOA.

HurricaneHugo Apr 14, 2009 6:40 AM

It's DOA because there are no new projects to talk about.

And I know you didn't say you can walk it in 12 minutes, but you did say, "I have taken the trolley to Petco and it takes just as long as walking," that's why I said I doubt you can walk it in 12 minutes.

HurricaneHugo Apr 14, 2009 8:32 AM

Anyways, what do you guys think of the proposed new budget?

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...get-san-diego/

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori.../?zIndex=80942

I think it sucks...but it's needed.

kpexpress Apr 14, 2009 9:07 AM

No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

cata77 Apr 14, 2009 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4194452)
No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

stratta only has three to four floors to go, WOW!! :cool:

IconRPCV Apr 14, 2009 8:38 PM

Don't forget the new law school. This is going to be a great addition to the East Village, as well as for all of downtown.

cata77 Apr 15, 2009 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IconRPCV (Post 4195286)
Don't forget the new law school. This is going to be a great addition to the East Village, as well as for all of downtown.

oh yeah that is going to be cool, have you guys heard all the bones they found in the site??

Derek Apr 15, 2009 6:09 AM

Bones? Details. :D

kpexpress Apr 15, 2009 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cata77 (Post 4195700)
oh yeah that is going to be cool, have you guys heard all the bones they found in the site??

How could I forget the Law School? My same block! That's is going to be amazingly sweetness. I hope that it brings up the foot traffic along Park Blvd and help drive out the drug dealers along the road.

Bones? you haven't heard of the mammoth skull or the whale bone that halted the construction for a week or so?

HurricaneHugo Apr 16, 2009 9:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4194452)
No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

no NEW projects to talk about, as in proposed projects that we can discuss the design, location, etc

SDCAL Apr 17, 2009 3:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voice of reason (Post 4192189)
You are mixing and missusing terminology. Subsidy is not the same as user taxes. Highways are paid for primarily by users paying fees and taxes based on their quantity of useage. Light rail and bus systems are SUBSIDIZED, that means that funds, not from system users, are what pays for them. Anyone in the industry knows the difference. Actually gas taxes, car taxes etc, produce surpluses that governments raid for other uses.

All recent studies show that the San Diego trolley is used daily by about 2% of the workforce for commuting. The studies also show that the trolley only eases traffic by 1.3%. The difference is accounted for by the fact that a vast number of users of the trolley come from the bus system, which means that those people werent commuting with cars anyway.

The San Diego trolley has a budget of around $45 million and ticket revenues are around $24 million. This does not take into account the capital costs that were incurred at the point of construction. So there is a shortfall of $20+million per year that must be subsidized by non-users.

The only real test of a rail system is 'do people ride it in numbers sufficient to justify the cost'. The data speaks for itself.

I love the Tube in London, the Metro in Paris and have used them often. Millions of people ride them each day, thats more than ride San Diegos in a whole year. If people rode ours, I would support it, people chose not to. The government shouldnt build expensive things that the citizens dont want to use, for whatever reason.

The bus system, even though it too is not self-sufficient is a better use of public transportation funds than a rail system and the numbers bear this out.

As to the question of walking or riding to downtown. The trolley doesnt run every 3 minutes, I believe in the evening it is every 20-30 minutes. So lets say you hit the pickup time in the middle and you wait 13 minutes to get on, you then have to transfer trolleys lines down at the main station, this is usually about 4 minutes and then add in the travel time of 18 minutes. That comes to 35 minutes. I can easily walk to Gas Lamp or even Petco in 29 minutes without pushing it. The pedicab is 13 minutes flat. Try it yourself if arent too lazy.

The reason trolley ridership is low is not because people here will not use mass transit, it's because the light rail system we have hasn't enough lines.

I don't go to SDSU or to the border. I do go from downtown to Hillcrest, North Park, Sorrento Valley and La Jolla.

So do alot of other people who work in the La Jolla/Sorrento Valley area, or who want to go dining/shopping in Hillcrest.

No, you can't "force" people to ride mass transit, but if you actually build the lines in logical places people will ride, yes even in San Diego

if a line was put to Balboa Park - Zoo, I guarantee tourists staying in downtown hotels would use it frequently

bmfarley Apr 17, 2009 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 4200266)
The reason trolley ridership is low is not because people here will not use mass transit, it's because the light rail system we have hasn't enough lines.

I don't go to SDSU or to the border. I do go from downtown to Hillcrest, North Park, Sorrento Valley and La Jolla.

So do alot of other people who work in the La Jolla/Sorrento Valley area, or who want to go dining/shopping in Hillcrest.

No, you can't "force" people to ride mass transit, but if you actually build the lines in logical places people will ride, yes even in San Diego

if a line was put to Balboa Park - Zoo, I guarantee tourists staying in downtown hotels would use it frequently

Who is saying Trolley ridership is low? Someone saying that is just ignorant of teh facts. Check teh APTA web site for industry statistics and you'll find that the San Diego Trolley is teh 4th or 5th most used light-rail system in the country... trailing Boston, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Regarding the Trolley budget... those numbers are 5 or 6 years old. Or more.

kpexpress Apr 17, 2009 8:59 AM

I want old school street cars (electric) to run from Horton Plaza up 5th Ave through Bankers Hill, Hillcrest the head through North Park. That would be so rad. Or what if it basically looped around Balboa Park.... from North Park head south through South Park and GOlden Hill and back to Horton plaza. I think that would boost ridership (if, for some reason ridership is low).

dl3000 Apr 18, 2009 6:53 AM

That would be sweet!!

kpexpress Apr 18, 2009 7:56 AM

any updates on the new main library? anyone?

keg92101 Apr 18, 2009 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4202343)
any updates on the new main library? anyone?

I hope that project, as designed, dies. I never liked the design (now it has got to be close to 15 years old), and I'm sure that the means and methods for construction are horribly out-dated. I know everyone talks about "loosing the state grant" but at this point, they need to kill it and start from scratch. Come up with a "reasonable construction budget ($500 / SF not including FF&E is astronomical)" and send out an RFP to Design-Build firms. If they keep with the same contract style, not only will we get an extremely bare bone structure, but the total project cost will probably surpass $225 Million, still without FF&E.

I'm sure if the Federal Courthouse secured funds so easily, San Diego could just as easily piggy back on Obama's money as well!

Marina_Guy Apr 18, 2009 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101 (Post 4202544)
I hope that project, as designed, dies. I never liked the design (now it has got to be close to 15 years old), and I'm sure that the means and methods for construction are horribly out-dated. I know everyone talks about "loosing the state grant" but at this point, they need to kill it and start from scratch. Come up with a "reasonable construction budget ($500 / SF not including FF&E is astronomical)" and send out an RFP to Design-Build firms. If they keep with the same contract style, not only will we get an extremely bare bone structure, but the total project cost will probably surpass $225 Million, still without FF&E.

I'm sure if the Federal Courthouse secured funds so easily, San Diego could just as easily piggy back on Obama's money as well!

I can't believe I heard a request to send a library RFP through a design build process. This is a library, a Central Library, it should be an architectural ICON. Design Build firms do not produce this type of architecture. They produce, for example, the second phase of the convention center. Enough said.

I want a new Central Library, but it appears small town San Diego has zero interest in it. At this point I would recommend that the $80 million CCDC is holding for this project be used for a branch library in Downtown. The lack of leadership and vision by our elected officials in making something more of our pot hole filled City is sad.

Doesn't Mayor Daley have a son going to college in San Diego?? If so, please stay here and run for mayor :) (hoping and dreaming, I guess)

PadreHomer Apr 19, 2009 11:07 PM

Caving on the library and building a downtown "branch" would assure that it never gets built.

As someone who supports a downtown library, the city should punt on the issue for now and regroup when it makes sense. They'll have an opportunity to do something better down the line, but we shouldn't settle for less at this point. Take $5 million of the money and landscape that hideous lot and put the other $75 million away for later.

kpexpress Apr 20, 2009 5:07 AM

A legitimate dog park would be sweet right there.


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