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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Will O' Wisp Jun 24, 2019 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla (Post 8613815)
A historically low number of homes were built in San Diego County in the first three months of 2019.

There were 1,180 residential permits pulled in the first quarter, a drop of 58 percent compared to the same time last year, said the Real Estate Research Council of Southern California. It was the most significant drop of the seven Southern California counties.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...n-diego-county

The article blames the lack of construction on the fact that rent prices aren't increasing at the same rates they did in previous years (in fact housing prices in SD are now growing slower than any other major metro). So.... yay?

HurricaneHugo Jun 25, 2019 3:42 AM

First building at Manchester starting to rise

https://i.imgur.com/xCl9BmY.jpg?2

JerellO Jun 25, 2019 5:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 8615085)
First building at Manchester starting to rise

https://i.imgur.com/xCl9BmY.jpg?2

Oh wow.. that was fast.. I think? I’m so excited for this project, I can’t wait to see it finished and filled with people walking around, which will take time of course.

mello Jun 25, 2019 8:49 PM

I got word from someone who works at Manchester they are legally obligated to get the Navy building done in a certain time frame. My contact said they are focused on it first, will be topped out in August, then we will start to see the other towers rise.

SpoonMan: Regarding Chargers --

Here is the nail in coffin that it will never work in LA. As the team is fighting for a first round bye in the playoffs (Top 2 record in their conference) here is the attendance of their final 3 home games: 19k Broncos, 16k Phoenix Cardinals, 14K Baltimore Ravens.... Um hello your season is coming to a crescendo and you finish 12-4 and this is your attendance. All three games LOWER than the final Houston Oilers homegame in the Astrodome when everyone knew they were leaving!

Speak with Chargers "fans" here in SD County 80 to 90% of them will tell you that when Rivers retires they are done. They are just a team flapping in the wind with no fan base. And with the Raiders moving to LV there will now be 3 teams in LA. No they won't officially be the "Los Angeles Raiders" but being in Vegas they are defacto LA and everyone knows it.

There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

Streamliner Jun 25, 2019 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8615848)

SpoonMan: Regarding Chargers --

Here is the nail in coffin that it will never work in LA. As the team is fighting for a first round bye in the playoffs (Top 2 record in their conference) here is the attendance of their final 3 home games: 19k Broncos, 16k Phoenix Cardinals, 14K Baltimore Ravens.... Um hello your season is coming to a crescendo and you finish 12-4 and this is your attendance. All three games LOWER than the final Houston Oilers homegame in the Astrodome when everyone knew they were leaving!

Speak with Chargers "fans" here in SD County 80 to 90% of them will tell you that when Rivers retires they are done. They are just a team flapping in the wind with no fan base. And with the Raiders moving to LV there will now be 3 teams in LA. No they won't officially be the "Los Angeles Raiders" but being in Vegas they are defacto LA and everyone knows it.

There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

Yeah the Chargers don't belong in L.A. With the Rams, Raiders, USC, and UCLA, Angelenos have enough football teams to root for before needing to get emotionally invested in "that old San Diego team".*

* not to mention the hometown teams supported by the million+ transplants.

Nv_2897 Jun 26, 2019 4:56 PM

Columbia and A Tower
 
Pinnacle International is proposing a 415 Foot Mixed use Residential/Hotel Tower along Columbia and A street
Civic SD: https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...s_06.21.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/JcAZB5W.png
https://i.imgur.com/e0taTYx.png


I love the design and think that this tower will be a nice skyline/gap filler

Nv_2897 Jun 26, 2019 5:03 PM

Pinnacle International by the looks of it re-designed their pacific heights project and applied for permits
Civic SD: https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...s_06.21.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/xaG1eec.png
https://i.imgur.com/negDVuk.png

Nv_2897 Jun 27, 2019 12:49 AM

Cedar and Kettner
 
Another new proposed tower! Holland development group and AVRP Skyport are proposing Cedar and Kettner Tower a 336 foot mixed use tower right next to Ariel! I like the design and think it will expand the skyline a little instead of just stopping at Ariel.
Civic SD:https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploa...s_05.23.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/x5WX3xR.png
https://i.imgur.com/0qe5AGP.png
https://i.imgur.com/FfDEBPr.png
https://i.imgur.com/NsfDwpQ.png

mello Jun 27, 2019 7:25 PM

Wow tons of new proposals. Pinnacles 11th and broadway project is moving super slowly though. Crane has been there for what 6 months at least and nothing is sticking up out of ground yet.

Isnt the Holland Project across from Ariel where the parking garage is? Will this surround it?

Steadfast Jun 28, 2019 2:36 AM

^
11th & Broadway is actually above ground. Went by the other day and saw them pouring cement for the ground floor support columns.

Will O' Wisp Jun 28, 2019 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8615848)
There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

I agree with everything you're saying except I have my doubts that the Chargers are coming back after they fail in LA. Why would they come crawling back to a city that definitively refused to spend taxpayer dollars building a new stadium, when there are leagues of midwestern cities willing to spend millions subsidizing an NFL team just to gain some recognition of their existence from the outside world? And the return would be humiliating, even for a new owner, not to mention how poisonous the relationship between the Chargers and SD would probably be.

mello Jun 29, 2019 10:22 PM

Will: Its a long discussion but if gone about in the right way I believe at the time the City/County would have pitched in 150 to 175 million each. The Chargers rushed through their own initiative with no backing of the County/City and wanted to do it downtown, need to move busyard etc.

If they had gone with the Faulconer/Ron Roberts plan of doing the stadium at the Mission Valley site and Spanos did these four things I will list below I believe the voters would have approved a taxpayer contribution.

Spanos List: 1. Statement saying the Raiders combo stadium in Carson was misguided he is totally dedicated to SD.
2. Spend 8 million and put in a new HD Video Board in that giant square structure that housed the tiny scoreboard and did one of those LED wraps around the seating bowl.
3. Go permanently to powder blue uniforms that the fans had been asking for since what 2004? (90% of fanbase wanted this easily)
4. No Bosa holdout prior to the 2016 season and subsequent, vote that really soured the fanbase on Spanos.

If those simple 4 things had been done in 2016 leading up to a vote for a Mission Valley Stadium with half and half contribution from City and County I guarantee it would have gotten 50%. Even if he had done these 4 things for his downtown proposal it would have passed that threshold, remember it got 43%.

Regarding a move back to San Diego: Yes would be humiliating for Spanos but SD would say hey if you are paying for everything welcome back. A new owner would be viewed as a hero no humiliation there at all. Plus there is a lot of money to be made doing a mixed use development at the Chula Vista Bayfront or with the giant redo of the Sports Arena/Midway area that is coming.

These owners and potential owners see what Stan Kroenke is doing in Inglewood and would love to do something similar here. Obviously the Mission Valley site is probably not really doable now unless they came back quickly and did some kind of public private partnership with SDSU. I think if done right the Chula Bayfront or Rosecrans/Midway area could be a huge moneymaker for a new owner.

brg654 Jun 30, 2019 7:47 PM

if i remember correctly, the chargers 2016 referendum included a tax increase and would have needed a 2/3 majority to pass.

Will O' Wisp Jul 1, 2019 2:31 AM

Mello: I have a slightly different perspective, being more of a casual NFL fan. To me specifics like uniform colors or LED screens aren't going to account for much, but rather the actions/motivations of the team and its owner when they present this new stadium to us. The Padres started their conversation with "What can we do for the city to get a new stadium?", and it shows deeply in their ultimate design. Petco Park was build in an underdeveloped area as a vehicle to encourage building around it, integrating open space and street facing concessionaires that encourage visitors to explore the surrounding blocks. Judging by the skyscrapers now surrounding the stadium it worked, but the Padres took on the very real risk of ending up with an expensive stadium in a run down part of the city that leaked valuable concession money like a sieve. Doing all that got a lot of people not even that interested in baseball, myself included, to vote that stadium.

The Chargers started and ended their conversation with "Give us what we want or we'll leave". They demanded the opportunity to take advantage of Petco Park's hard work with a huge stadium in the middle of that now rapidly developing area, and one that was utterly walled off to the outside so they could personally squeeze every last cent of concessions out of their attendees. The Chargers weren't willing to give their city anything back, and when confronted on it their response was to threaten us like our existence as one of the nation's top tourism hotspots was utterly dependent on maintaining a middle-of-the-road NFL team. San Diego called their bluff and to avoid utter humiliation they were forced to leave town.

Note I keep saying "the Chargers" and not Dean Spanos. Like it or not, the Charger name has been rubbed all over this mess in a way that can't be erased with a simple change of ownership. Now I doubt even with 50/50 cost sharing and a promise to redevelop an underutilized area would gain approval with the voters (and imo neither the CV Bayfront or Rose/Midway particularly need a stadium rn to develop). And so for all their trouble the most likely outcome for a Charger return to SD is them paying full price for a stadium in a worse location than they already had, surrounded by a city that's going to view any request for financial assistance as a rich business crankily demanding government handouts because of our past experience with them. Considering that no NFL team was willing to touch America's second largest media market (LA) for over two decades a similar series of events in the 90s, the Chargers crawling back anytime soon would be seen as them failing Spanos or no.

brg: I recall something about there being a legal question if the proposition needed 1/2 or 2/3s voter approval, but it became a moot point after it lost hard enough at the ballot box that it would have failed either way.

IconRPCV Jul 1, 2019 6:59 PM

I think SD's time with the NFL has past, and we should focus on getting a new arena built downtown next to PETCO and obtaining an NHL team. This would give us almost 365 days a year of professional sports that would not conflict with each other much. I think this is something SD can support well. Plus a PETCO adjacent arena could be worked to supplement the convention center, imagine convention halls connecting the two underground, then we wold have this contiguous space that huge conventions need; kill two birds with one stone!

CaliNative Jul 2, 2019 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IconRPCV (Post 8621053)
I think SD's time with the NFL has past, and we should focus on getting a new arena built downtown next to PETCO and obtaining an NHL team. This would give us almost 365 days a year of professional sports that would not conflict with each other much. I think this is something SD can support well. Plus a PETCO adjacent arena could be worked to supplement the convention center, imagine convention halls connecting the two underground, then we wold have this contiguous space that huge conventions need; kill two birds with one stone!

I think a new arena could also land an NBA team, either expansion or relocation. San Diego metro is bigger than many NBA cities. If Sacramento and Portland have NBA teams, surely much larger SD should. The arena would probably require some kind of guarantee of teams to get built, and the teams would have to chip in. Don't expect the public would fund it, although the convention center might chip in since a large arena might be useful in attracting large gatherings, concerts and the like.

sixonenine Jul 2, 2019 7:36 AM

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...a-winning-plan

Nerv Jul 2, 2019 6:11 PM

Just an open question not intended to piss on anyone’s favorite sport but the NFL, MLB and the NBA have all had issues of declining interest in the last few years. None of the three is currently looking like they will have a big upswing in interest. There’s a variety of reasons for this but the reason I bring it up is it seems that building anything for a sports franchise is only going to get more difficult if the “value” of having a sports team is really kind of dropping. Not a sky is falling comment that all 3 will disappear but if you follow sports you know all 3 are having variable interest issues which is a new wrinkle in our heavy social media based society. Things are changing...

Will O' Wisp Jul 3, 2019 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 8621877)
Just an open question not intended to piss on anyone’s favorite sport but the NFL, MLB and the NBA have all had issues of declining interest in the last few years. None of the three is currently looking like they will have a big upswing in interest. There’s a variety of reasons for this but the reason I bring it up is it seems that building anything for a sports franchise is only going to get more difficult if the “value” of having a sports team is really kind of dropping. Not a sky is falling comment that all 3 will disappear but if you follow sports you know all 3 are having variable interest issues which is a new wrinkle in our heavy social media based society. Things are changing...

These days a lot of cities are reexamining the value of having a professional sports team. When you do the math they oftentimes end up costing more money to their host cities than they earn.

From the downtown San Diego perspective especially, it's not very clear what building another stadium in the East Village would bring that Petco Park hasn't already given us or San Diego already innately has. We're already one of the top tourist destinations in the nation, our hospitality industry is booming, and there are a variety of preexisting event venues large and small in downtown. Petco Park host events over 300 days a year, has a ton of features for non-fans like restaurants and a (regular) park, and since it was built the East Village has absolutely no issues finding development dollars. Is it worth it to replace 2-4 of our limited number of potential skyscrapers with a gigantic, walled off, midrise superblock (as every stadium design I've seen proposed seems to consist of). And add on the fact that it will have to start cannibalizing from other potential event venues if it's going to be used more than a 1/3rd of the year, when we're still paying off the loans for Petco.

HurricaneHugo Jul 3, 2019 5:28 AM

We need a new arena anyways, Sports Arena is a dump and Viejas is too small.

I feel like we miss out on bigger artists/shows stopping by because of it.


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