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chjbolton Jul 26, 2018 5:47 PM

Moving the Chargers to LA was the dumbest business decision I've ever seen.
Nobody likes them up here in LA and now SD Chargers fans (I've met several) feel betrayed and frankly don't really want them back; or so they say...

ArquitectoMontenegro Jul 26, 2018 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy619 (Post 8262028)
Chargers ha, good riddance. Theres more to do within a 4 mile radius of DTSD than any other city in the country and I've been everywhere man.

DTSD to Coronado 2,000ft
DTSD to Harbor Island 3,000ft
DTSD to Balboa Park 1 Miles
DTSD to Shelter Island 2 Miles
DTSD to Sunset Cliffs 4 Miles
DTSD to Seaworld/ Mission Bay/ OB/ Belmont 4 Miles
From the Mandalay Bay to the Stratosphere 4 miles

I had a friend in town from NYC, her first time in SD. She googled "things to do in SD" and when a park popped up #1 she was disappointed, but when we got there she was blown away by the fact that its more than just a park. After showing here everything mentioned above (within two days) she ultimately said the range of things to do in SD beats NYC. The only problem was that when I wasn't there to drive her around she couldn't get anywhere. We're lacking good public transit, but I don't want to see more trolleys. Maybe just a small people mover or those gondolas that were proposed. We're also lacking public attention, no one ever hears about SD. It's overshadowed by LA. I guess you could say the Chargers provided that but I'd rather have more conventions like comic con then the lousy Chargers.

Those distances are about half of what the actual driving distance is. More like 7.5 miles from DTSD to sunset cliffs/Seaworld. 8 miles to Mission Beach.

caligrad Jul 26, 2018 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8261656)
Caligrad interesting analysis and I know what you are saying. Losing the Chargers has nothing to do with "something missing" downtown but I've heard from a few guys who work at hotels say that guests ask what is there to do downtown besides nightlife and dining after dark. I think a lot of people have become a bit spoiled by Vegas with there being so many options to choose from. This show, that show, events what have you, that when they come to SD its like "great you have tons of bars/clubs/restaurants but what else is there". Balboa park closes early for example.

In the summer if Padres happen to be playing that is cool, but I think a new arena with an NBA team and the Gulls which is very high quality hockey even though its not NHL would really help with that "missing" feeling downtown. I know we have some comedy clubs and Balboa Theatre/Spreckels but that is about it. You can take a party boat thing out and cruise around the bay.... Hopefully the nice new aquarium that eventually will come with the Seaport Village redo will stay open late.

So Caligrad if our downtown got a new arena behind Petco with NBA and Expanded the convention center would we still have anything "missing"? Remember the waterfront will be totally revamped with the Manchester Pacific Gateway project and Seaport Village redone.

Interesting. You're right. I personally have become spoiled with Vegas entertainment. I even said on the DTLA thread that I wish one of those big new developments would add a theater for a Vegas type show.

I think what I mean by "Missing Something" is that San Diego is a great city. But. It needs something to say IM HERE ! not just talking about downtown but the city as a whole needs something. I think sadly the city sometimes gets overshadowed by LA because of its close proximity, which isn't fair.

San Diego needs an Aquarium, maybe even the biggest and best on the West Coast. It would compliment the San Diego zoo nicely, which I feel is the best Zoo in the country. The Gas Lamp is great, it needs more, that monolithic mall needs to be torn and the gas lamp should be expanded on the property. San Diego needs more solid Museums, its needs a fisherman's ward type development. It needs more to draw in the tourist.

The Chargers leaving is fine and I agree that the people of San Diego should have shown them the door, granted I hate that door was an entrance to LA lol I hate the Chargers being here and a lot of people feel the same. What San Diego needs is for a downtown arena for an NBA team that can be shared with a hockey team.


San Diego also needs more theme/amusement parks. SeaWorld isn't cutting it, I went there for the first time in years and was severely underwhelmed. Legoland is tooo far away. Maybe a Sixflags are expansion of another theme park.

Shopping. The downtown mall/thing I found to be weird and underwhelming and a waste of space, not to mention monolithic. Tear it down to street level and make it a continuation of the Gas lamp. Maybe put a stage in the center for performances. Mission Valley, lots of hotels and 2 big-ish malls that flanked the Chargers Stadium...Well... two very middle America shopping destinations are good enough. San Diego needs a solid shopping destination.

Last but not least. Can someone PLEASE relocate the DA** Airport ! I get that its "Historical" for whatever reason but I feel with its location, not only is it hindering Downtown but its hindering the entire San Diego region. Its needs to bee relocated and expanded. Has anyone every though of taking the Tokyo approach and maybe building into the ocean ? on the other side of Coronado? I know it will be expensive but the long term benefits would be amazing. Billions added to the economy a year. With the land that the current airport sits on, expand downtown and/or create a new hotel/shopping/entertainment corridor for San Diego. maybe even some Casinos ? make it a more pedestrian friendly version of the Strip. Tourists from all over would flock to San Diego.

caligrad Jul 26, 2018 7:10 PM

[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman;8261904]
Quote:

Originally Posted by caligrad (Post 8261559)
The Chargers are gone. The citizens of San Diego need to get their new convention center pronto. Losing Comic Con as well will be an economic blow.

Losing the Chargers was one of the best things to happen to San Diego, if it weren't for the horrible losing deals that got them here in the first place. It's a proven fact that sports teams are almost always losing propositions in the long run. Now that the land will be freed up for development that will actually generate economic benefits in the long-term, like our CC, I definitely agree with you there. Sorry if I offended any Chargers fans, I'm not a sports guy in general.

I think letting the Chargers go wasn't necessarily good or bad, I don't think the city will take that much of a hit but what it loses is exposure. Sports teams being a losing proposition can be debatable, it depends on the city and if that city has more to offer than just that sports team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 8261999)
I can’t speak for Caligrad, but what I think he’s getting at is that SD has been kicked in the nuts a bunch of times and needs to put its big boy pants on and step up. SD lost the Chargers, lost the Rockets and Clippers, still has the aging Sports Arena, is the largest city without NBA or NHL, and can’t get it together enough to expand the Convention Center (or move the airport).

The point I believe is that SD is great but is falling behind due to its infighting and inactivity which is slowly reducing the status of the city.

Exactly what I was getting at. I feel its already unfair that San Diego is shadowed by LA, but every time something good happens for it, it somehow gets taken away which makes LAs shadow even bigger unfairly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy619 (Post 8262028)
Chargers ha, good riddance. Theres more to do within a 4 mile radius of DTSD than any other city in the country and I've been everywhere man.

DTSD to Coronado 2,000ft
DTSD to Harbor Island 3,000ft
DTSD to Balboa Park 1 Miles
DTSD to Shelter Island 2 Miles
DTSD to Sunset Cliffs 4 Miles
DTSD to Seaworld/ Mission Bay/ OB/ Belmont 4 Miles
From the Mandalay Bay to the Stratosphere 4 miles

I had a friend in town from NYC, her first time in SD. She googled "things to do in SD" and when a park popped up #1 she was disappointed, but when we got there she was blown away by the fact that its more than just a park. After showing here everything mentioned above (within two days) she ultimately said the range of things to do in SD beats NYC. The only problem was that when I wasn't there to drive her around she couldn't get anywhere. We're lacking good public transit, but I don't want to see more trolleys. Maybe just a small people mover or those gondolas that were proposed. We're also lacking public attention, no one ever hears about SD. It's overshadowed by LA. I guess you could say the Chargers provided that but I'd rather have more conventions like comic con then the lousy Chargers.

I think all of this is a bit interesting lol since I can name quite a few cities that may have more going on in a 4 mile downtown radius, including Vegas as you've mentioned. The Chargers leaving isn't good nor bad for the city in my opinion other than the loss of exposure. SD also needs more mass transit. But a thing to also remember is that....When people visit your city, you want them to be able to explore the entire city and have things to do, having everything downtown and downtown adjacent leaves the rest of the city economically stagnant since there is no reason to literally leave downtown. Especially since the airport is only a couple of blocks away.

IconRPCV Jul 26, 2018 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chjbolton (Post 8262808)
Moving the Chargers to LA was the dumbest business decision I've ever seen.
Nobody likes them up here in LA and now SD Chargers fans (I've met several) feel betrayed and frankly don't really want them back; or so they say...

You are absolutely correct; as an Expat San Diegan living in LA I can attest to this. Here is the hierarchy up here: USC, UCLA, Raiders, Rams, High School football, Chargers.

SD is better without them!

Prahaboheme Jul 26, 2018 9:59 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed the time I lived in San Diego for about 1.5 years, before moving to LA. I don't think it's really missing any one thing necessarily, it just needs to continue on the path of densification downtown to create a more 24/7 city life.

That streetcar proposal from downtown to Balboa Park (and realistically, into Hillcrest) would also do wonders for connectivity.

I, for one, would not be in favor of having the airport relocated. That was one of my favorite things about San Diego. First, it's a beautiful airport, in an incredibly convenient location (esp if you live near downtown). Secondly, it's a great first impression to visitors of the city. What it really needs is a trolley link (or at least a people mover over to the nearest stop which I think would be Little Italy).

eburress Jul 26, 2018 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IconRPCV (Post 8263095)
You are absolutely correct; as an Expat San Diegan living in LA I can attest to this. Here is the hierarchy up here: USC, UCLA, Raiders, Rams, High School football, Chargers.

SD is better without them!

The Chargers didn't move to LA to gain the support of fans - they moved to gain the support of a corporate base not present here in SD.

CaliNative Jul 26, 2018 11:05 PM

Football is on the decline because of concussion issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chjbolton (Post 8262808)
Moving the Chargers to LA was the dumbest business decision I've ever seen.
Nobody likes them up here in LA and now SD Chargers fans (I've met several) feel betrayed and frankly don't really want them back; or so they say...

Bring SD an NBA & NHL team in a new arena downtown, and I'm happy. In football, you only get maybe 10 home games a year. Many more in basketball & hockey. I'm against concussions, but the head injury issue will change football and make it less interesting, less of a contact sport. "Joe sixpack" will not pay the high prices like they have for quasi touch football. LA can keep the Chargers. Besides, if a new arena is built downtown (or in east village) the ancient and creaky Midway arena and parking lots can be replaced with thousands of badly needed apartments. "Just Do It" to quote NIKE. A new arena can also be used for large events like concerts and large political conventions, so it would complement the convention center. I have no doubt that if a new arena is built, we will quickly have NBA and NHL teams here (relocated or expansion). San Diego metro is bigger than many cities that have these teams.

Will O' Wisp Jul 27, 2018 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caligrad (Post 8262910)
Last but not least. Can someone PLEASE relocate the DA** Airport ! I get that its "Historical" for whatever reason but I feel with its location, not only is it hindering Downtown but its hindering the entire San Diego region. Its needs to bee relocated and expanded. Has anyone every though of taking the Tokyo approach and maybe building into the ocean ? on the other side of Coronado? I know it will be expensive but the long term benefits would be amazing. Billions added to the economy a year. With the land that the current airport sits on, expand downtown and/or create a new hotel/shopping/entertainment corridor for San Diego. maybe even some Casinos ? make it a more pedestrian friendly version of the Strip. Tourists from all over would flock to San Diego.

There are absolutely zero places within 40 miles of downtown you could construct a major airport in. Zip, zitch, zero, not possible, will never happen without relocating tens of thousands or crippling the economy. And before you even ask, yes there have been studies (over 30 by my count), virtually every scrap of land and water in SD county has been examined at some point.

Just to speak specifically on your idea, it has been proposed multiple times over the past 30 years in a wide set of variations. Building anywhere on the other side of Coronado would interfere with the flight paths into North Island, which would eliminate its value as a military base and jeopardize the entire military presence in the region. So say goodbye to roughly 30% of the SD economy, not to mention destroying one of the most visited beaches in the world.

If you wanted to build in the bay, just take into account how small the bay is and how big a major international airport can be.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-57d11b90/t...-bay-2009jan09
By the way, this particular proposal was done up by a group with no airport planning expertise, the runways are too closely spaced to allow multiple planes to land at same time and the taxiways seemed almost purpose built to cause traffic jams. For a realistic design it's pretty likely you'd have to close off the entire bay.

Building far offshore has been proposed too, of course, but you should know that Tokyo didn't build its airport in "the middle the ocean", it built it on a preexisting island in its harbor. You may have been thinking of Osaka, which built an artificial island in its comparatively giant bay with the most expensive construction project in history to that point. No one has ever built an airport far offshore, like you'd have to in San Diego, where the water is too deep to reclaim land and you'd have to construct some massive floating structure capable of withstanding some fairly intense ocean waves.

Doesn't seem worth it just to build a few casinos tbh.

Boatguy619 Jul 27, 2018 7:24 PM

How big is the NHL and NBA looking to expand? Seattle is building a new area to attract both leagues and they would get teams before SD. The NFL has the most with 32, NBA can add 2, NHL 1. I don't think the leagues want to oversaturate the market. With 40+ teams, the odds of your cities winning is slim so whats the point in going to games? I think Soccer city would be great. The new Banc of California stadium sells out to LAFC no problem. Soccer is going to be the next big thing in the USA and SD needs to get onboard now.

mello Jul 27, 2018 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy619 (Post 8264297)
How big is the NHL and NBA looking to expand? Seattle is building a new area to attract both leagues and they would get teams before SD.

Here is the situation. Seattle will be getting the NHL so they will then have that with MLB/NFL. San Diego as we all know is by far the largest market with only 1 major team. Unfortunately due to our location the television market is not so large but will the ratings be high for NBA here. For example SD is 28th largest media market Tampa (a slightly smaller metro) is 11th!!! Because they get everything from Lakeland then the areas north of Tampa on Gulf coast and entire Gulf Coast south to Naples in their TV Market. :slob:

We obviously just get SD County. So if an NBA team were trying to get a solid local TV deal here they would need to show solid ratings. Example SD Market 1 mill 66k households in Market # 28 St. Louis #21 at 1.215 million. So their market is 12% larger than ours. Theoretically SD we need to get 10% better ratings to get a similar TV deal. I know there is also corporate sponsorships etc etc.

I'm just showing you guys the nuts and bolts of how the Sports Business works. San Diego sports is DEAD from Oct through April the NBA season so I think we could get very high TV ratings in our market. We obviously do great for the World Cup.

Seattle NBA team will have to compete with NHL and NFL during the beginning of season. All things to consider.

NOTE: NBA will be expanding by 2 and good chance either the New Orleans Pelicans or Memphis Grizzlies will move so even if Seattle gets an NBA team San Diego will still have options. :cheers:

CaliNative Jul 28, 2018 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8264384)
Here is the situation. Seattle will be getting the NHL so they will then have that with MLB/NFL. San Diego as we all know is by far the largest market with only 1 major team. Unfortunately due to our location the television market is not so large but will the ratings be high for NBA here. For example SD is 28th largest media market Tampa (a slightly smaller metro) is 11th!!! Because they get everything from Lakeland then the areas north of Tampa on Gulf coast and entire Gulf Coast south to Naples in their TV Market. :slob:

We obviously just get SD County. So if an NBA team were trying to get a solid local TV deal here they would need to show solid ratings. Example SD Market 1 mill 66k households in Market # 28 St. Louis #21 at 1.215 million. So their market is 12% larger than ours. Theoretically SD we need to get 10% better ratings to get a similar TV deal. I know there is also corporate sponsorships etc etc.

I'm just showing you guys the nuts and bolts of how the Sports Business works. San Diego sports is DEAD from Oct through April the NBA season so I think we could get very high TV ratings in our market. We obviously do great for the World Cup.

Seattle NBA team will have to compete with NHL and NFL during the beginning of season. All things to consider.

NOTE: NBA will be expanding by 2 and good chance either the New Orleans Pelicans or Memphis Grizzlies will move so even if Seattle gets an NBA team San Diego will still have options. :cheers:

Trust me..if we build a new arena we will get NBA & NHL teams. Of couse we would need a "wink" from the leagues that this will happen. SD is a very attractive market, with lots of $$$ in the area, 3 million people in the metro area and lots of potential owners. :tup: The arena could also be used for concerts and the largest political and convention gatherings. East Village near the ballpark and Gaslamp and convention center would be ideal location imho. The old Midway arena could be replaced with apartments (badly needed).

Nv_2897 Jul 28, 2018 4:24 AM

Does anyone know when the Ritz Carlton project is supposed to break ground? It Would add some nice needed height in East Village and It would be Sd's (downtowns) first 5 star hotel and residenceshttps://i.imgur.com/Mbo1WKw.jpg

Derek Jul 28, 2018 5:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chjbolton (Post 8262808)
Moving the Chargers to LA was the dumbest business decision I've ever seen.
Nobody likes them up here in LA and now SD Chargers fans (I've met several) feel betrayed and frankly don't really want them back; or so they say...

I would welcome the Chargers back with open arms if they ever crawled back to San Diego, but fuck them while they’re in LA.

sixonenine Jul 29, 2018 9:02 AM

I think San Diego needs to be different than other westcoast cities to get its rep up. like SF is already a Tech Hub and LA has entertainment and media, so SD needs to start bringing something new to the table to get better recognition. Maybe the Fashion and Beauty industry?? I know its a stretch but we have Mexico right next to us and can benefit from using lower production costs. Plus I believe we ranked #2 for best looking ppl in the country at one point so it would be easy to hire models. Just an idea.

Will O' Wisp Jul 29, 2018 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixonenine (Post 8265518)
I think San Diego needs to be different than other westcoast cities to get its rep up. like SF is already a Tech Hub and LA has entertainment and media, so SD needs to start bringing something new to the table to get better recognition. Maybe the Fashion and Beauty industry?? I know its a stretch but we have Mexico right next to us and can benefit from using lower production costs. Plus I believe we ranked #2 for best looking ppl in the country at one point so it would be easy to hire models. Just an idea.

SD is already a major biotech hub, and has the largest single concentration of military personnel on the planet. Plus there's a major domestic tourist industry, and internationally recognized zoos, museums, etc. tbh San Diego punches above its weight in this area, in a lot of ways we're more prominent culturally than several other larger cities like Phoenix and San Antonio.

The public side of the fashion industry, the one that would be interested in hiring models, is heavily tied to the entertainment industry. Your clothing/jewelry/makeup lines gain "cred" from being worm by trend setters, so it will always been advantageous to co-locate in media hubs like LA or NYC to gain better access to movie stars and other publicized personalities like that. Most models don't make as much as you might think anyway, so from a cost benefit ratio it's far better to locate your company in LA and pay models to relocate from SD, and most do.

mello Jul 30, 2018 10:07 PM

I'm starting to get a little worried about 7th and Market. It is such a game changer if we lose that it will hurt badly. I guess it will take so long to construct that theoretically we could go through a recession and come out other side when it is finally finished in 2021 lol.

Nv_2897 Jul 30, 2018 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8267041)
I'm starting to get a little worried about 7th and Market. It is such a game changer if we lose that it will hurt badly. I guess it will take so long to construct that theoretically we could go through a recession and come out other side when it is finally finished in 2021 lol.

I hope we don't lose it. I really like the design of the building and it would be a game changer for east village. It needs to break ground by at least this year if it wants to finish construction by late 2020

joemamma Jul 31, 2018 2:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 8267041)
I'm starting to get a little worried about 7th and Market. It is such a game changer if we lose that it will hurt badly. I guess it will take so long to construct that theoretically we could go through a recession and come out other side when it is finally finished in 2021 lol.

Can anyone in the know please explain to me what exactly an environmental report is, and why is it so often used to hold up projects? Is it truly something regarding this sites' environmental conditions, or is it just an easy way for another party to throw a wrench in the development gears?

Thanks

Joe

clubtokyo Jul 31, 2018 4:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nv_2897 (Post 8264769)
Does anyone know when the Ritz Carlton project is supposed to break ground? It Would add some nice needed height in East Village and It would be Sd's (downtowns) first 5 star hotel and residenceshttps://i.imgur.com/Mbo1WKw.jpg

Wow that looks nice!


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