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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

sandiegodweller Jul 11, 2007 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2946014)
I just pulled this from Online CPI. Looks like we don't have to sweat Library Tower anymore :)

http://www.onlinecpi.org/article.php?list=type&type=246

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

What does this have to do with the Library Tower project?

spoonman Jul 11, 2007 6:47 PM

^A lot of people on this site (including myself) have been hoping the Library Tower would be built to add more height variety to the East Village. These towers will be only 20 feet taller than Library Tower's 480' building, so these should "fit the bill".

The good news is that these towers are going a small-ish parcel next to the Transit Center Headquarters. This means they will not be sprawling all over like the Hyatt, Marriott and the newest mistake, the Hilton. It also means that it will be right next to bus and rail transit for all the workers and visitors.

The bad news is that the towers are twins. I can only pray that they are not that stucco crap. Hopefully they'll look something like the glass side of the Omni (in my opinion)

Derek Jul 11, 2007 7:23 PM

edit sorry

Derek Jul 11, 2007 7:25 PM

How do we know they are twins?

spoonman Jul 11, 2007 7:37 PM

From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

sandiegodweller Jul 11, 2007 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2946016)
I am confused by several pieces of logic here. First, I didn't realize that the same people who go to libraries are the same exact people who go to museums in Balboa Park?? What Balboa Park's attendance rates have to do with library projections?? I'm also not sure what American History has to do with it, many new cities out west have built new libraries successfully, including Seattle as someone pointed out.

I get the feeling the point of your statement is that San Diego is not cultured enough to value or utilize a new library even though that's not exactly what you said, I apologize if I missed your point

Every time I have been to the library it's packed, and a library is not just a place to check out books, it gives people who can't afford a computer or internet cafes the ability to get online. Libraries, including ours, are also used as spaces for many public and civic events (look at their website, there is always something going on). I admit I don't go very often, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who go more regularly.

Most importantly, the DT library is the central hub for SD countys entire library system, including the computerized card catalogue and central computing system. By the standards of ANY city of our size, the central library is an out-dated piece of crap that needs to be replaced now (the building is hostoric, so I would favor keeping that or incorporating it into a neew development, but the library itself should move)

I am not trying to argue the value of developing the current East Village site for civic uses but I do question the need for an expensive new library.

FYI - Seattle voters decided to borrow money to build their new library. I haven't seen any outpouring of support in San Diego.

"Seattle voters in 1998 approved the largest library bond issue then ever submitted in the United States. The landmark "Libraries for All" bond measure, which proposed a $196.4 million makeover of the Library system, garnered an unprecedented 69 percent approval rate at the polls. The massive measure will double the square footage in Seattle's 22 libraries, including the building of new branches, plus also produce a new $169.2 million Central Library (including $10 million for the Temporary Central Library) to replace its worn-out 1960 predecessor."

1. Andrew Carnegie (US Steel) gave millions of dollars to start some original library systems throughout the world. We don't have a modern day Carnegie who doles out millions for their pet cause except if it is world health (Gates and Buffett) or African schools (Oprah). The orignial capitalists in this country (Rockefeller, Mellon, Morgan, Carnegie, etc.) saw the need to create massive public works in the East Coast cities to compete with the great cities of Europe. California's history sprouts from the Missions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library

2. You mention that the Library would become a center for culture and a meeting place. We already have Balboa Park as a center for culture and a meeting place. I don't see that Balboa Park is being overutilized and stretched to it's capacity yet. Also, the Children's Museum downtown still needs additional funding. San Diegan's (corprate and private) haven't shown a real penchant for donating large sums of cash.

3. People who frequent libraries and loiter all day, every day are called homeless, elderly, unemployed and/or latch key kids. If San Diego wants to help the homeless, elderly, unemployed and provide daycare, they can spend the $175+ million to address those issues.

4. It is 2007. The modern central computing system is called the internet. We don't need a $175 million building to house a few servers. The quest for knowledge is now provided electronically. Google and Microsoft have basically rendered libraries obsolete.

Students are still the predominant users of libraries. UCSD, SDSU, USD, San Diego City College should be able to take up the slack for legitimate users who need the services of the library.

The City is running on a huge deficit. We need good, job producing, tax generating projects, not more bloated government projects.

spoonman Jul 11, 2007 8:02 PM

Here's an old rendering of Ballpark Village which shows the future Marriott site on the bottom. To the right of it (the white buildings) is the Transportation Center.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...llparkvill.bmp


In this picture the future Marriott would be the two tallest buildings closest to the bridge to the hilton.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...opment/bp3.jpg

DowntownSDJoe Jul 11, 2007 8:13 PM

Hey guys, been reading the posts for a while now and just now registered, live in the grande north and am moving to the legend in october....love to talk downtown and all the new condos,offices,resteraunts,etc...

this Marriott Convention Center @ Ballpark Village excites me, sounds like a huge project, cant wait for some renderings

Derek Jul 11, 2007 8:16 PM

Maybe the towers would have different designs? :shrug:

spoonman Jul 11, 2007 8:22 PM

I'm going to assume that the designs will be different than those renderings that I posted. I just wanted to give everyone an idea of the exact location and the scale of the development.

bushman61988 Jul 11, 2007 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2946806)
Maybe the towers would have different designs? :shrug:

From what I saw at the design review, the towers aren't EXACT twins, but they are really similar. they also aren't nearly as massive, as someone said earlier, as the Hyatt towers or that DREADFUL Hilton. Even though they top out at 487 feet, they look pretty good, and their slenderness will make them appear even taller. But the renderings were very conceptual, not at all dissimilar to the ones that were posted above. :previous:

Derek Jul 12, 2007 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman61988 (Post 2946961)
From what I saw at the design review, the towers aren't EXACT twins, but they are really similar. they also aren't nearly as massive, as someone said earlier, as the Hyatt towers or that DREADFUL Hilton. Even though they top out at 487 feet, they look pretty good, and their slenderness will make them appear even taller. But the renderings were very conceptual, not at all dissimilar to the ones that were posted above. :previous:

Thanks for the info!:)

bmfarley Jul 12, 2007 2:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2946775)
Here's an old rendering of Ballpark Village which shows the future Marriott site on the bottom. To the right of it (the white buildings) is the Transportation Center.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...llparkvill.bmp
In this picture the future Marriott would be the two tallest buildings closest to the bridge to the hilton.

Do I see a 2nd pedestrian bridge in the area.. one over Imperial at Park?

SDCAL Jul 12, 2007 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2946739)
I am not trying to argue the value of developing the current East Village site for civic uses but I do question the need for an expensive new library.

FYI - Seattle voters decided to borrow money to build their new library. I haven't seen any outpouring of support in San Diego.

"Seattle voters in 1998 approved the largest library bond issue then ever submitted in the United States. The landmark "Libraries for All" bond measure, which proposed a $196.4 million makeover of the Library system, garnered an unprecedented 69 percent approval rate at the polls. The massive measure will double the square footage in Seattle's 22 libraries, including the building of new branches, plus also produce a new $169.2 million Central Library (including $10 million for the Temporary Central Library) to replace its worn-out 1960 predecessor."


1. Andrew Carnegie (US Steel) gave millions of dollars to start some original library systems throughout the world. We don't have a modern day Carnegie who doles out millions for their pet cause except if it is world health (Gates and Buffett) or African schools (Oprah). The orignial capitalists in this country (Rockefeller, Mellon, Morgan, Carnegie, etc.) saw the need to create massive public works in the East Coast cities to compete with the great cities of Europe. California's history sprouts from the Missions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library

2. You mention that the Library would become a center for culture and a meeting place. We already have Balboa Park as a center for culture and a meeting place. I don't see that Balboa Park is being overutilized and stretched to it's capacity yet. Also, the Children's Museum downtown still needs additional funding. San Diegan's (corprate and private) haven't shown a real penchant for donating large sums of cash.

3. People who frequent libraries and loiter all day, every day are called homeless, elderly, unemployed and/or latch key kids. If San Diego wants to help the homeless, elderly, unemployed and provide daycare, they can spend the $175+ million to address those issues.

4. It is 2007. The modern central computing system is called the internet. We don't need a $175 million building to house a few servers. The quest for knowledge is now provided electronically. Google and Microsoft have basically rendered libraries obsolete.

Students are still the predominant users of libraries. UCSD, SDSU, USD, San Diego City College should be able to take up the slack for legitimate users who need the services of the library.

The City is running on a huge deficit. We need good, job producing, tax generating projects, not more bloated government projects.

I am a member of the SD Museum of Art and go to Balboa Park all the time and it is usually packed, hard to even find parking, so not sure what part of BP you are talking about or when the last time you went was. Granted, alot of the people do appear to be tourists.

I still don't think it's a fair comparison, the types of events that the library holds are different from the events in Balboa Park. Library events focus more on issues for lower incomes whereas balboa park tends to draw more well-heeled people for events such as Old Globe plays and art shows, so I don't think the comparison of Balboa Park and the Library serving the same purpose is valid

I don't think having a place for unemployed/elderly or even homeless people to have access to BOOKS and COMPUTERS is bad as you imply. People without the means need a place to find resources to find jobs and do their resumes! I really think if downtown is to survive as a vibrant neighborhood we need to have areas geared for all people, not just those that can afford million dollar condos

As far as SDSU, UCSD, etc, again those serve the purposes of people privileged enough to be going to college. The public library serves those who can't

the one thing I do agree with you on is that, compared to other big cities, donations from the community for the arts are very low, I think part of the problem is our super-rich live up north in places like La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe so they prefer to throw their tax-deductable charity money at places up there instead of in the city :( :(

Derek Jul 12, 2007 3:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 2947489)
Do I see a 2nd pedestrian bridge in the area.. one over Imperial at Park?

I see it too! Sweet. :)

Derek Jul 12, 2007 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2947641)
I am a member of the SD Museum of Art and go to Balboa Park all the time and it is usually packed, hard to even find parking, so not sure what part of BP you are talking about or when the last time you went was. Granted, alot of the people do appear to be tourists.

I still don't think it's a fair comparison, the types of events that the library holds are different from the events in Balboa Park. Library events focus more on issues for lower incomes whereas balboa park tends to draw more well-heeled people for events such as Old Globe plays and art shows, so I don't think the comparison of Balboa Park and the Library serving the same purpose is valid

I don't think having a place for unemployed/elderly or even homeless people to have access to BOOKS and COMPUTERS is bad as you imply. People without the means need a place to find resources to find jobs and do their resumes! I really think if downtown is to survive as a vibrant neighborhood we need to have areas geared for all people, not just those that can afford million dollar condos

As far as SDSU, UCSD, etc, again those serve the purposes of people privileged enough to be going to college. The public library serves those who can't

the one thing I do agree with you on is that, compared to other big cities, donations from the community for the arts are very low, I think part of the problem is our super-rich live up north in places like La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe so they prefer to throw their tax-deductable charity money at places up there instead of in the city :( :(

I agree with you.

SEsdCALconnect Jul 12, 2007 4:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2947678)
I agree with you.

i definitely agree...i used to teach at San Diego High and believe me, them kids just east of the I-5 would really benefit from a NEW major public library in East Village...not to mention their families...they'll use it...believe me...just like how so many working-class folks and middle-class folks alike fill up National City's Public Library when it was reopened a few year's back... and...they..keep.coming!

i can't tell you how many complaints i get from my students who need to use a computer in the library because they lack one at home...they don't like the school's library let alone the one in downtown...!

a new library that central and accessible to the students would really make for a positive impact to many of the youth in the region...and that's from a teacher-standpoint

as much as i loved the original proposal of the library, given the mounting cost estimates and the financial crisis our city is in, i would be open to a design change in order to cut costs if that's what it takes to save the library project from dying...so as long as it maintains some sort of signature, landmark look...

that's just my input on all that...

Derek Jul 12, 2007 4:55 AM

The current one is just crap. And smells funny.

HurricaneHugo Jul 12, 2007 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2946730)
From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

I just nutted.

eburress Jul 12, 2007 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2946730)
From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

Am I missing something...what's new (or news) about this? We had an idea of the project's scale already. Is the project any more likely to happen now than before?


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