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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

Derek Jun 1, 2007 10:28 PM

Can the FAA please shut the fuck up?

Derek Jun 1, 2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDDTProspector (Post 2872456)
If you like Broadway 655 you will like this one because it is designed by the same firm.....

I would like it if it was a little taller.;)

eburress Jun 1, 2007 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDDTProspector (Post 2872456)
I actually like it alot.... Its not the same boring crap that every other developer does... In san diego the top of building are a after thought... Anyways it will make the building stand out, I would have an issue if every building had a top like that, but it is only one so far..... We don't want to look exactly like Vancouver. Let's not be followers.

If you like Broadway 655 you will like this one because it is designed by the same firm.....

If this tower's top resembles Broadway 655's, then that would be perfectly fine with me. The rendering isn't the greatest, so hopefully a larger, more-detailed version will look better.

SDCAL Jun 2, 2007 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 2872213)
I wish Sunroad was challenging the FAA on a downtown building instead of these because it seems like that would get us to our ultimate goal (taller downtown buildings) faster.

I agree, the building they are challenging is alot closer to the aiprort and right under the flight path, I am worried if they lose then downtown developers would be discouraged from trying to go up against the FAA, even though the arguements for putting something over 500ft in the East Village away from the flight paths seems more solid than the argument for this building going over its height limits

Based on the flight radius maps that were posted earlier, I think San Diego could legally (working with the FAA) do what Vancouver is doing and having certain zones where buildings could be greater than 500ft instead of the broad mandate for all of downtown. DT has tripled in size since the height limit went into effect, at the time the thougt of skyscrapers east of where the ballpark is now was probably unthinkable which is why nothing like that was ever considered

Derek Jun 2, 2007 2:11 AM

I applaud Sunroad and back them 100%. ;)

HurricaneHugo Jun 2, 2007 3:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2872301)
The gaps are starting to fill in nicely from this angle. Just imagine what it will look like once Lane Field and NBC get started :tup:

Cosmo and 7th and Market will fill in that gap between OAP and Pinnacle quite nicely. :)

eburress Jun 2, 2007 3:15 AM

^^ Creating the inevitable, unavoidable SD downtown plateau.

<ak/> Jun 2, 2007 7:43 AM

plateau is not in immediate plans according to http://www.ccdc.com/resources/resour...ban_Design.pdf

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...dt/bhasa52.jpg

stockjock Jun 2, 2007 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2872988)
I applaud Sunroad and back them 100%. ;)

I certainly don't applaud them. I believe that Sunroad is wreckless. Unlike most here, I don't believe that placing towering skyscrapers on every available plot of land (or nearly so) makes San Diego a better place. Beyond that, they are willfully violating FAA regulations, potentially creating a serious hazard to aviation traffic.

I hope that Sunroad gets it handed to them.

SDCAL Jun 2, 2007 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockjock (Post 2873770)
I certainly don't applaud them. I believe that Sunroad is wreckless. Unlike most here, I don't believe that placing towering skyscrapers on every available plot of land (or nearly so) makes San Diego a better place. Beyond that, they are willfully violating FAA regulations, potentially creating a serious hazard to avaition traffic.

I hope that Sunroad gets it handed to them.

I agree that Sunroad sounds reckless, however I also think these types of arguements need to happen in order for officials and the public to move the airport which is already a safety hazard with or without this building. It's not like we are talking about a quiet suburban area here, this is right in the center of the city. I don't favor skyscrapers on "every available plot of land" in SD, but I feel that urban density in the heart of the city:
(1) begins to eliminate the need for cars
(2) creates a more tolerant community because people live in closer proximity to one another (I believe this is one reason cities like NY and SF are more tolerant)
(3) high-density urban growth will help curb the need to keep cutting into and ruining native habitats with the expansions of suburban home development in far-flung areas
I think SD can be better than some endless suburbia hell cut through by never ending freeways crammed with polluting vehicles
Obviously I don't expect SD to be like SF or NY, but I think downtown has shown a true urban experience is possible here, but moving the airport is key to growth to achieve this. As for the Sunroad people, I could really care less about the building they are trying to build, and I am not a "pro-developer" person in most cases, but I do think we are going to see these types of disputes becoming increasingly frequent as the city center grows and the airport doesn't budge and I'm glad somebody, ANYBODY, is challenging them.
I think all parties in the dispute are greedy jerks to be honest, the developers, the politicians and yes even the FAA itself all have ONLY their own interests at heart, and don't give two cents about San Diego's long-term development. I can only hope this tug-of-war sparks the airport debate which seems to have stalled since the Miramar ballot fiasco of last year!!

eburress Jun 2, 2007 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <ak/> (Post 2873529)

Of course nobody is "planning" for a plateau, but it's going to happen if all the buildings are the same height.

Derek Jun 2, 2007 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockjock (Post 2873770)
I certainly don't applaud them. I believe that Sunroad is wreckless. Unlike most here, I don't believe that placing towering skyscrapers on every available plot of land (or nearly so) makes San Diego a better place. Beyond that, they are willfully violating FAA regulations, potentially creating a serious hazard to aviation traffic.

I hope that Sunroad gets it handed to them.

See SDCAL's post, that's basically the exact reason I like what they are doing. He hit it on the head.:)

Derek Jun 2, 2007 6:37 PM

http://www.ccdc.com/resources/resour...ban_Design.pdf

Thank's for posting that <ak/>! I found a lot of interesting stuff in there! Including plans for lids over the 5 as some of us would like to see. ;)

<ak/> Jun 2, 2007 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 2873951)
Of course nobody is "planning" for a plateau, but it's going to happen if all the buildings are the same height.

the point i was trying to make: buildings are not going to be the same height throughout downtown area due to park sun access restrictions and other kinds of building height restrictions displayed on the picture.

bmfarley Jun 2, 2007 8:15 PM

There is a lot of focus on downtown, but let us not forget Bankers Hill. It may not be readily apparent because of the lack of information online, but Bankers Hill all the way up to Hillcrest is expecting more density too. And taller buildings.

The airport flight path cuts through a good portion of it; however, from afar the skyline will not look so plateau-ish as the skyline looks to the north. It will take time... but with that and the shadow-height thing already addressed in the DTCPU I am not too concerned about a plateau.

I am the definative source on the subject, right? j/k!

OCtoSD Jun 2, 2007 9:15 PM

Strange Article on the Ivy, Racier than I thought
 
High-end adult venues exploit a racy trend
San Diego's naughty new Ivy hotel and other hot spots are bringing sex into the mainstream.
By Kimi Yoshino, Times Staff Writer
12:49 PM PDT, June 2, 2007

SAN DIEGO -- With rooms starting at $450 a night, this city's newest hotel is keeping company with some grand dames of San Diego County: Four Seasons Resort Aviara, Hotel Del Coronado and the US Grant.

But the only thing strait-laced about the Ivy Hotel is the leather-covered, corseted columns in the lobby.

The 159-room, $90-million property could pass as Playboy Mansion South, from the skin-baring cocktail waitresses to the $3,000-a-night specialty suite with king-size bunk beds, a group shower and, ahem, a fireman's pole.

"We wanted something a little voyeuristic, a little seductive," said Michael Kelly, the Ivy's co-owner who has made his fortune buying and selling depressed assets. "It's an adult playground, but it's not cheap."

It used to be that only managers of by-the-hour motels were happy to have their properties mistaken for bordellos. But with soccer moms taking erotic dancing classes at the local community college and Carl's Jr. using sex (read: Paris Hilton) to sell hamburgers, some hotels aren't afraid to offer guests more than X-rated pay-per-view movies.

Julie Albright, who teaches classes on human sexuality and social psychology at the University of Southern California, says easy access to sexual messages and images has shifted the bounds of what's considered socially acceptable.

"It's the pornification of mainstream society," she said. "There's more overt sexuality in our media, on television. More people have cable TV. More people are on the Internet."

Restaurants are also following suit. In West Hollywood, the adults-only Hadaka Sushi and its "sushi gone naughty" concept serves up ahi tuna on a naked model strategically draped with banana leaves. The experience costs $2,100 — and that doesn't include the food. Those on a tighter budget can order more traditional fare from a menu that reads like a smutty novel.

"I think people should break out of their shell a little bit and not be afraid to explore new and different things," owner and Chef Edward Brik said. "If you're not comfortable coming in and ordering a threesome roll, you can go to some other boring sushi place and order a spicy tuna roll."

From a purely business perspective, though, the Ivy and restaurants such as Hadaka Sushi are simply differentiating themselves, experts say.

Tom Reichert, co-author of "Sex and the Consumer Culture" and an advertising professor at the University of Georgia in Athens, calls it "sex-based segmentation."

"It's not targeted to everybody ... but I think there's at least enough people to keep them in business."

The Ivy is likely to raise a few eyebrows in wholesome San Diego, which bills itself as "America's Finest City."

Co-owner Kelly said that was exactly the idea: "This town needed a little style. I left San Diego every weekend and took off to Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami or St. Tropez.... People want, and are willing to pay for, quality and service."

Los Angeles entrepreneur Brad Beckerman agrees. After a recent visit to the Ivy, he's already planning a return trip.

"I was blown away," said Beckerman, founder and CEO of Trunk Ltd., an apparel and accessories company. "This in L.A. would be over the top, incredible. It would kill."

The Ivy's owners say their hotel concept is consistent with the times — and the neighborhood.

Ten years ago, Kelly and his sister Louise opened a bar called The Bitter End in San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter. Since then, surrounding downtown has undergone a major renaissance thanks to the construction of the Petco Park baseball stadium and a $216-million overhaul of the San Diego Convention Center.

In the last seven years, convention business has more than doubled; 574,000 convention attendees came last year, many of them executives who have expense accounts to burn on swanky soirees, pricey rooms and hard-to-find wines.

In the Gaslamp Quarter, bottle service — once reserved for velvet-rope clubs in New York, Vegas and Los Angeles — has "completely changed" San Diego's night life in the last couple of years, said Carl Winston, director of San Diego State University's School of Hospitality and Tourism Management.

"The whole bar scene has gotten tremendously sophisticated here and tremendously expensive," Winston said. "People are buying bottles for $500 and $600 for the evening. There seem to be 25- to 35-year-olds who don't mind paying several hundred dollars to entertain friends."

The Kellys are hoping to capture some of this money. At their hotel club, Envy, they are charging $600 to $5,000 to reserve a choice booth for the evening.

They are also targeting couples, businessmen and mavens of the Los Angeles party scene who now would rather hop a jet to Vegas.

Indeed, the Kellys are merely expanding the practice promoted by Vegas hoteliers. The Palms in Las Vegas has its own version of the Erotic Suite, stripper pole and all. Adventurous guests at Sin City's Hard Rock can order blindfolds, whips and rabbit-fur handcuffs from room service. (All sales are final.)

The Ivy, which opened last month, markets itself as class, not trash. Envy is decorated with floor-to-ceiling photos of legs clad in fishnet stockings and women in lingerie. Instead of curtains, red chain mail hangs from the ceiling. Couches are upholstered in red patent leather with black fringe. And in the restaurant, run by Chef Damon Gordon, there is seating for six at a chef's bed.

To set the mood, the hotel is crawling with attractive workers in couture Tadashi uniforms. (Kelly interviewed a pool of 1,500 before settling on a staff of 300). Hostesses wear floor-length black gowns with plunging necklines. Cocktail waitresses deliver martinis in short, black lace dresses.

Rooms have a "functional workspace" for guests who need to punch in. But visitors are more likely to be impressed by the see-through shower that overlooks the bed.

Sociologist Albright calls places like the Ivy "a recipe for infidelity."

Studies have shown that businessmen who earn more than $75,000 a year and whose jobs take them out of town are more likely to cheat, said Albright, who is studying men who pursue multiple relationships for sex, money or status.

The same demographic tends to eschew hard drugs and heavy gambling but embraces recreational views of sex.

It's the one area where they allow themselves to be hedonistic," she said. "In the privacy of their hotel rooms is their chance to cut loose, unbutton the buttoned-up oxford shirt."'We wanted something a little voyeuristic, a little seductive. It's an adult playground, but it's not cheap.'

eburress Jun 2, 2007 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <ak/> (Post 2874151)
the point i was trying to make: buildings are not going to be the same height throughout downtown area due to park sun access restrictions and other kinds of building height restrictions displayed on the picture.

Sure, there will be areas in and around with shorter buildings, but there are still enough spots where 400ft-500ft buildings will be built, and as the gaps in the skyline fill in, it's going to create the plateau effect.

HurricaneHugo Jun 2, 2007 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 2874352)
Sure, there will be areas in and around with shorter buildings, but there are still enough spots where 400ft-500ft buildings will be built, and as the gaps in the skyline fill in, it's going to create the plateau effect.

Thing is....it's already there!

eburress Jun 3, 2007 12:48 AM

^^ True, and it's going to become even more pronounced.

Derek Jun 3, 2007 8:39 AM

The "new tallest" building from CCDC (I hate to say I told you so about them referring to floor count and not height.):

Columbia Tower (Columbia Downtown, LLC) – Centre City
Development Permit for a 364-room hotel and 63 residential units with
ground-floor retail in a 47-story (470 feet) tower located on the south side
of A Street between India and Columbia streets – Columbia.


The following have been approved:
• East Village Square Comprehensive Sign Plan (Cisterra/Bosa/JMI) –
Centre City Comprehensive Sign Plan for the East Village Square, a
master-planned development located immediately north of the ballpark
outfield between J and K streets, and Seventh and Tenth avenues. The
proposed Sign Plan includes the previously approved signs at the
Diamond View Tower project, Project Identification Signs for the overall
development, directories, and directional signs for the overall
development, and signs for individual tenants. This application requires
approval by the City Council – East Village.
• 6th Avenue Office Condominiums (EnDev) – Centre City Development
Permit/Variance for 12 office condominiums (37,838 square feet of office
space) and 2,162 square feet of commercial retail space in a 13-story
building located at 453 and 459 Sixth Avenue – East Village.
• Citiplace (Essex Property Trust) – Centre City Development Permit for
140 units in a six-story building located on the north side of Ash Street
between Front Street and First Avenue – Cortez.
• Metro Works/Anthology (India Street Venture, LLC) – Centre City
Neighborhood Use Permit to allow a sign with automatic changing copy at
1337 India Street. The proposal includes a 24 square-foot sign containing
messages directing attention only to events to be conducted on-site –
Columbia.
• Cowboy Star (Jon Weber) – Centre City Neighborhood Use Permit to
allow for a sidewalk cafe for a proposed steak house and butcher shop to
be located at 640 Tenth Avenue – East Village.
• The Ivy Hotel (630 F Street, LLC) – Centre City Neighborhood Use
Permit to allow for a sidewalk cafe for a ground-level hotel restaurant to be
located at 630 F Street – East Village.
• Anthology (India Street Venture, LLC) – Centre City Neighborhood Use
Permit to allow a sidewalk cafe for a restaurant/bar located at 1337 India
Street – Columbia.
• Dussini’s (OSF International) – Gaslamp Quarter Conditional Use
Permit to allow live music and entertainment within an existing restaurant
located at 275 Fifth Avenue – Gaslamp Quarter.
• Currant (Pickwick Partners) – Centre City Neighborhood Use Permit to
allow for a sidewalk cafe for a ground-level hotel restaurant to be located
at 140 W. Broadway – Core.

More from CCDC:
http://www.ccdc.com/news/resources/N...20Summary_.pdf


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