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Derek May 17, 2007 1:45 PM

^That's exactly what I was thinking.

The Columbia Center in Seattle is the tallest building on the west coast in terms of floor count at 76 floors.

The US Bank tower in LA is the tallest building on the west coast in terms of height at 1,018 feet.

sandiegodweller May 17, 2007 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCtoSD (Post 2840451)
You guys should look at the link for the 47 story hotel/condo development. There is a project in India that joins two towers with a big fake diamond. It's hilarious. :jester: Some are small pleasant hotels nothing more then a 100 rooms. I do not know how much we can depend on these guys. Going from doing a 5 story 100 room Holiday In in Oceanside to doing a 47 story luxury hotel condo is a big leap.


Exactly. I don't think that site is very attractive for a luxury hotel. You are competing with the W. It doesn't have any water views and it is too far from the convention center. I see an upscale Holiday Inn, Ramada, Hampton Inn, etc.

How do you afford to pay $404 psf for the dirt ($10,100,000 for 25,000 sf), build a 47 story hotel and make it pencil when the average rack rate is probably less than $200 per night?

FYI - they DID get a discount from the $17 million that the developers of the ELLE paid for the dirt a few years ago.

bmfarley May 17, 2007 3:16 PM

For what it is worth... the full Daily Transcript article concernign the airport. This was in yesterdays edition.

Quote:

The Daily Transcript

Study: San Diego airport must grow, or risk losing revenue


San Diego is among several major U.S. cities that will need additional capacity by 2025 in order to meet increasing demand for air travel, according to a Federal Aviation Administration report released Tuesday.

The findings were part of the latest version of the FAA's study, "Capacity Needs in the National Airspace System."

The report examined anticipated changes to airport capacity through 2025, and said city airports, including San Diego, Atlanta, Las Vegas and Chicago, need to expand soon.

"What it shows is pretty much exactly what our studies have shown for several years -- both the airport master plan study and the site selection study," said Keith Wilschetz, director of planning for the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority. "Essentially that San Diego International Airport will reach capacity constraints sometime between 2015 and 2025. It's very consistent with what we've said."

The FAA looked at four different criteria, including how much an airfield's flights are delayed and how a facility's constraint will affect other airports.

According to the FAA, San Diego will meet three of the criteria for constraint by 2015 and all four by 2025.

"By 2025, cities like Atlanta, Las Vegas, Chicago and San Diego are going to risk the lost revenue, lost business and lost appeal that comes with chronic delay," U.S. Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters said while announcing the results at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport.

FAA Administrator Marion Blakey said Tuesday that the current number of air passengers is "sounding a siren that must be responded to" with a regional approach.

Airports in Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles, St. Louis and Minneapolis-St. Paul have recently opened new runways.

The FAA study began in 2003, reviewing 291 commercial service airports, and whittled that down to the 56 most at risk of overcapacity.

Wilschetz said the FAA report won't cause the airport authority to renew discussions of a site selection process. The board will continue its focus on expanding the capacity of Lindbergh Field in its current location.

"I don't think the report tells us anything we didn't already know," he said. "We knew that there's going to be capacity problems in the future. That's really a big reason that the state legislature required us to do a site selection study. The results (of the vote) show people want to stay at Lindbergh Field for the foreseeable future."

If lawmakers or anyone else approaches the board with a site solution proposal, it would listen, Wilschetz said, but board members would not initiate discussions themselves.

The FAA, which doesn't build airports, can't force the issue, either, Wilschetz said.

"What they can do is encourage cities or regions to try and find new capacity," he said. "But it's up to individual cities to decide whether we want to do that or not."

The transportation department is working intensively to ease congestion in the skies over busy airports through advances in technology and is also seeking additional, market-based tools to fight congestion in the aviation reauthorization bill now before Congress.

Building new airports, expanding existing fields and taking better advantage of smaller regional airports are all solutions that must be considered to meet the demand for air travel that continues to grow, Peters said.

"This study makes it clear that we need to develop solutions that match travelers with the best way to get to their destinations," Peters said. "We must find a way to turn this challenge into an opportunity to keep our families free to travel and our businesses free to succeed."

ucsbgaucho May 17, 2007 3:59 PM

Public space drawings are called a first draft
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

May 17, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Two building projects at landmark downtown sites got poor or mixed reviews yesterday from the city's downtown redevelopment agency.

Public space at Manchester Financial's Navy Broadway Complex development was lambasted by agency board member Teddy Cruz, who called the design of the pedestrian promenade that bisects the site “cartoony” and “incredibly mediocre.”

Board member Kim John Kilkenny said it looks like a private-sector shopping mall, not a public plaza.


Advertisement
The second project, a planned skyscraper across the street, was described as elegant but not the icon that was expected.

Manchester was selected in April 2006 to develop the 15-acre Navy waterfront parcel at Harbor Drive and Pacific Highway. In addition to a Navy administration building – the design of which the board praised in the past – the developer plans to build a Class A office building, hotels, retail stores and a museum or cultural center.

It was the board's first look at renderings of the plaza, which will be the major public part of the development in addition to a block-sized park.

The company's designs are scheduled to go before the downtown agency for a final green light next month.

After the meeting, Manchester President Perry Dealy said the drawings are just a first draft.

“It was clear from their comments that they want us to put more effort into a more pedestrian storefront look, and we're working on that,” Dealy said. “We heard their comments.”

Meanwhile, the Irvine Co. appeared before the board for preliminary review of the 34-story office building that has been billed as a potential signature piece of the waterfront skyline. The site is at Broadway and Pacific Highway.

Drawings show a massive stone building with wide windows and a flared crown. Chicago's Monadnock Building was an inspiration for the look. Irvine has described it as a “dignified” edifice that will anchor that end of Broadway.

Some board members seemed to question whether the design, by renowned New York architect Henry Cobb, lives up to the hype.

“I'd be hard-pressed to take a look at the building there and say it is iconic in the way the Transamerica Building (in San Francisco) is iconic,” said Fred Maas, board chairman.

Santa Monica architect Gwynne Pugh, a member of the agency's guest design panel, said that because of the “restrained quality” of the design, it may be more of a background building than a standout.

But the board also praised Irvine for using high-quality materials, such as the natural stone travertine, and for choosing a world-class architect in Cobb. The 81-year-old designer is famous for designing Boston's John Hancock Tower and the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles.

Afterward, Irvine Co. spokesman Charles Black said he thought the comments were generally positive. “It wasn't our objective to create a building that was flashy and yelled, 'Look at me!' ” Black said.

sandiego_urban May 17, 2007 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDDTProspector (Post 2840030)
I know for a fact that Oliver Mcmillan is working on a proposal now to turn that storage unit into a hotel that is approx the height as the Office tower.

Any idea on who the hotel operator will be?


Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress
So then the proposed tower would have to be at least 501 feet

That's my understanding, but others have said that the tallest might refer to the number of floors in the building. It's confusing to me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2840500)
Here is the rendering of the proposed 47 Floor building...
http://www.sddt.com/images/news/2007...0_columbia.jpg

This smaller rendering doesn't look THAT bad. It definitely looks taller than 500' and looks like something you'd see in Florida. Question is, do we want to look like Florida or Vancouver? I say neither. Let's wait and see to find out if this project is real or not. It also looks to be a variation of the Columbia Tower project on CW Kim's site.

I sent the developer an e-mail this morning asking about this project. I'll let you know if I get a response back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller
Exactly. I don't think that site is very attractive for a luxury hotel. You are competing with the W. It doesn't have any water views and it is too far from the convention center. I see an upscale Holiday Inn, Ramada, Hampton Inn, etc.

Actually, the location isn't that bad. While it's not the best, according to mapquest, it's 2 blocks east of Sapphire Tower, and is also pretty close to Bayside (which will be the most expensive condo tower downtown when completed). I imagine the higher up units could have some nice views of the bay. It also isn't too far from the Lane Field development and the cruise ship terminal.

spoonman May 17, 2007 6:00 PM

BM Farley, Did you read the full article on the 47 story building in the SDDT? Did is seem as though the developer acknowledged the height limit? I think you are the only person with a subscription to the SDDT.

sandiego_urban May 17, 2007 6:07 PM

Here's the same article posted by gaucho above, except I've highlighted the quotes that really stick out. All of us here should be happy to see the gripes we've had here were also seen by the panel of "experts". :tup:



Navy Complex Projects Get Poor Marks

Public space drawings are called a first draft

By Jeanette Steele
STAFF WRITER

May 17, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Two building projects at landmark downtown sites got poor or mixed reviews yesterday from the city's downtown redevelopment agency.

Public space at Manchester Financial's Navy Broadway Complex development was lambasted by agency board member Teddy Cruz, who called the design of the pedestrian promenade that bisects the site “cartoony” and “incredibly mediocre.”

Board member Kim John Kilkenny said it looks like a private-sector shopping mall, not a public plaza.

The second project, a planned skyscraper across the street, was described as elegant but not the icon that was expected.

Manchester was selected in April 2006 to develop the 15-acre Navy waterfront parcel at Harbor Drive and Pacific Highway. In addition to a Navy administration building – the design of which the board praised in the past – the developer plans to build a Class A office building, hotels, retail stores and a museum or cultural center.

It was the board's first look at renderings of the plaza, which will be the major public part of the development in addition to a block-sized park.

The company's designs are scheduled to go before the downtown agency for a final green light next month.

After the meeting, Manchester President Perry Dealy said the drawings are just a first draft.

“It was clear from their comments that they want us to put more effort into a more pedestrian storefront look, and we're working on that,” Dealy said. “We heard their comments.”

Meanwhile, the Irvine Co. appeared before the board for preliminary review of the 34-story office building that has been billed as a potential signature piece of the waterfront skyline. The site is at Broadway and Pacific Highway.

Drawings show a massive stone building with wide windows and a flared crown. Chicago's Monadnock Building was an inspiration for the look. Irvine has described it as a “dignified” edifice that will anchor that end of Broadway.

Some board members seemed to question whether the design, by renowned New York architect Henry Cobb, lives up to the hype.

“I'd be hard-pressed to take a look at the building there and say it is iconic in the way the Transamerica Building (in San Francisco) is iconic,” said Fred Maas, board chairman.


Santa Monica architect Gwynne Pugh, a member of the agency's guest design panel, said that because of the “restrained quality” of the design, it may be more of a background building than a standout.

But the board also praised Irvine for using high-quality materials, such as the natural stone travertine, and for choosing a world-class architect in Cobb. The 81-year-old designer is famous for designing Boston's John Hancock Tower and the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles.

Afterward, Irvine Co. spokesman Charles Black said he thought the comments were generally positive. “It wasn't our objective to create a building that was flashy and yelled, 'Look at me!' ” Black said.

sandiegodweller May 17, 2007 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2841131)
Any idea on who the hotel operator will be?



That's my understanding, but others have said that the tallest might refer to the number of floors in the building. It's confusing to me.



This smaller rendering doesn't look THAT bad. It definitely looks taller than 500' and looks like something you'd see in Florida. Question is, do we want to look like Florida or Vancouver? I say neither. Let's wait and see to find out if this project is real or not. It also looks to be a variation of the Columbia Tower project on CW Kim's site.

I sent the developer an e-mail this morning asking about this project. I'll let you know if I get a response back.


Actually, the location isn't that bad. While it's not the best, according to mapquest, it's 2 blocks east of Sapphire Tower, and is also pretty close to Bayside (which will be the most expensive condo tower downtown when completed). I imagine the higher up units could have some nice views of the bay. It also isn't too far from the Lane Field development and the cruise ship terminal.

I am not considering all of the following properties as "LUXURY" but if I was proposing a LUXURY hotel in downtown San Diego right now, I would be concerned with the 1200 rooms already under construction at Campbell Shipyard (Hilton). This will satiate most of the convention crowds for awhile. I would also be wary of competing with the 2-3 hotels being proposed at NBC and Lane Field. Hard Rock (and maybe Diegan) will get the hip crowd who may be willing to pay up. We also have a few boutique hotels (Ivy, Keating) who are vying for that luxury dollar also. Mix in the already established Omni, Solamar, US Grant, W, Hyatt and Harbor Marriott (each with vastly superior locations to the waterfront and Gaslamp) and I think the Columbia Tower Group is missing the mark.

San Diego isn't San Francisco or NYC. The pool of luxury hotel guests runs shallow. The location of this new project is a 5 on a scale of 10.

Derek May 17, 2007 7:49 PM

What's the address of the site where the proposed 47 story will go?

sandiegodweller May 17, 2007 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2841432)
What's the address of the site where the proposed 47 story will go?

1270 Columbia Street

Derek May 18, 2007 3:26 AM

Thanks! I thought it was more east, like 10th for some reason. :shrug:

OCtoSD May 18, 2007 5:45 AM

If you watch the 700 West Broadway video at the end he starts placing the building in the context of the city. He first puts in models of the Navy Broadway complex and of Lane Field. Then he shows a computer generated model. Right across the street in the model is a large square building. Maybe just something they are anticipating. I was wondering if anyone knows who owns that piece of property or any details. If anyone could get that screen shot and put it up on the board that would be awesome.

Derek May 18, 2007 6:11 AM

If I had to guess, I would say Bosa.

spoonman May 18, 2007 7:48 AM

^I don't know if Bosa owns that spot or not, but they were using it for staging during construction of Electra.

eburress May 18, 2007 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCtoSD (Post 2842827)
If you watch the 700 West Broadway video at the end he starts placing the building in the context of the city. He first puts in models of the Navy Broadway complex and of Lane Field. Then he shows a computer generated model. Right across the street in the model is a large square building. Maybe just something they are anticipating. I was wondering if anyone knows who owns that piece of property or any details. If anyone could get that screen shot and put it up on the board that would be awesome.

That is the "mystery" tower we've seen in so many renderings.

I grabbed some screenshots from 700 WB video, which I'll post tonight so we can ooh and ahhh.

:)

SDCAL May 18, 2007 6:37 PM

[QUOTE=mello;2839686]Things like this simply infuriate me :hell: How can people blindly say that "oh no lindbergh is fine for generations" Where is Jerry Sanders, where is the County Supervisor?? This is there damn job to get things like this figured out. QUOTE]


The San Diego County Board of Supervisors?? HA!! Not to get political, but that is the most WORTHLESS group of conservative political hacks in the entire state! They make the city council and mayor's office look progressive, well-organized, and innovative. I don't understand why we even HAVE "county supervisors". Screw the need for a new airprot, they are spending all their time on issues like taking medical marijuana away from dying people who need it to keep food down even though CA voters passed a MM bill. Sorry to get political, but they are truly the most worthless bunch of do-nothing politicians who typify the ppor leadership and backwards-thinking SD is known for. I think the mayor and city governments are slowly coming around to realizing what SD needs to become a great city, but don't look to the county supervisors for anything, their positions need to be eliminated :hell:

SDCAL May 18, 2007 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2841258)
I am not considering all of the following properties as "LUXURY" but if I was proposing a LUXURY hotel in downtown San Diego right now, I would be concerned with the 1200 rooms already under construction at Campbell Shipyard (Hilton). This will satiate most of the convention crowds for awhile. I would also be wary of competing with the 2-3 hotels being proposed at NBC and Lane Field. Hard Rock (and maybe Diegan) will get the hip crowd who may be willing to pay up. We also have a few boutique hotels (Ivy, Keating) who are vying for that luxury dollar also. Mix in the already established Omni, Solamar, US Grant, W, Hyatt and Harbor Marriott (each with vastly superior locations to the waterfront and Gaslamp) and I think the Columbia Tower Group is missing the mark.

San Diego isn't San Francisco or NYC. The pool of luxury hotel guests runs shallow. The location of this new project is a 5 on a scale of 10.

sorry, don't mean to sound like a hotel snob, but the hotels you mentioned - Omni, Hyatt, etc., are very nice, but they are not 5 star luxury hotels and are a step down from the top-tier chains like Mandarin-Oriental, Four Seasons, Regent and Rtiz Carleton. yes we have some nationally-recognized small botique hotels like the US Grant which gets very good ratings nationally, but downtown SD has no LARGE luxury 5-star chain, and I think the downtown area has a market for at least one. You say we are not SF or NYC, obviously, they have many large 5-star hotels. We have a four seasons in north county (I believe Carlsbad), but i think SD needs an urban luxury maybe condotel downtown. My hope would be for a Mandarin-Oriental, they are truly amazing, especilly the ones in NYC and Bangkok

SDCAL May 18, 2007 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2841234)
Here's the same article posted by gaucho above, except I've highlighted the quotes that really stick out. All of us here should be happy to see the gripes we've had here were also seen by the panel of "experts".

I completely agree with you. I think it is a positive sign that we are seeing some of these discussions appearing outside of this blog and in mainstream media. I have not seen this in San Diego in the past, and it shows that the media is finally understanding that citizens DO care how are city looks and want a quality, distinctive, innovative downtown. The more I think of the Cobb tower the more pissed I get. It's not that the building is not nice, I like it, I just feel like the architect is saying "It's San Diego, it's sleepy and conservative, so I am going to design something that is simple and fades into the background" I hope they decide to put that building on a different site and have this high-profile site re-designed by a different architect

SDCAL May 18, 2007 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2839946)
I agree! That thing needs to go!:yuck:

hey I have a storage unit there, watch it hehehehe :cheers:

sandiego_urban May 18, 2007 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2841258)
I am not considering all of the following properties as "LUXURY" but if I was proposing a LUXURY hotel in downtown San Diego right now, I would be concerned with the 1200 rooms already under construction at Campbell Shipyard (Hilton). This will satiate most of the convention crowds for awhile. I would also be wary of competing with the 2-3 hotels being proposed at NBC and Lane Field. Hard Rock (and maybe Diegan) will get the hip crowd who may be willing to pay up. We also have a few boutique hotels (Ivy, Keating) who are vying for that luxury dollar also. Mix in the already established Omni, Solamar, US Grant, W, Hyatt and Harbor Marriott (each with vastly superior locations to the waterfront and Gaslamp) and I think the Columbia Tower Group is missing the mark.

San Diego isn't San Francisco or NYC. The pool of luxury hotel guests runs shallow. The location of this new project is a 5 on a scale of 10.

I agree that downtown has no shortage of mid to mid-upper range hotels (Westin, Omni, Marriott, Radisson, Hilton, etc.), but I've read and heard that it is still underserved in the luxury area. While the Columbia proposal isn't in the best location, I'd love to see more hotels like that scattered around downtown instead of being concentrated like they are now on Harbor Drive and the Gaslamp. I'd say downtown's only real luxury hotel is the U.S Grant. The Diegan was suppose to announce their 5-Star hotel operator weeks ago, but hasn't yet. I'm thinking it may be Ritz-Carlton. What sucks is that almost all of our luxury properties (Lodge At Torrey Pines, Estancia, Four Seasons Aviara, La Costa, Grand Del Mar, The Del, etc.) are in the 'burbs. It's time to bring some downtown!

One thing I am excited about are all of the boutique and smaller brand hotels that are pooping up or being planned like The Sofia, The Ivy, The keating, Indigo, Aviana, Hard Rock, etc. :tup:




*************************************************************************




Bit articles regarding the 47-Story proposal from 2 sources (SD Daily Transcript and SD Metropolitan Magazine):



Land Parcel Sold For 47-story Mixed-use Project

By THOR KAMBAN BIBERMAN, The Daily Transcript
Tuesday, May 15, 2007

A 25,000-square-foot land parcel at 1270 Columbia St. in downtown San Diego is to become the site of a 47-story mixed-use development with multiple hotels, among other uses.

The project as planned is destined to be the tallest building in the region when completed. The property was purchased by Chhatrala Group, with offices on Rosecrans Street in the Point Loma area. The seller was Bay Structures LLC, c/o Alger Development of Tacoma, Wash. The transaction was handled by Tim Winslow, Josh Vasbinder and Jason Kimmel of Grubb & Ellis|BRE Commercial.




San Diego Metropolitan Magazine
Daily Report
5/15/07

The Chhatrala Group has purchased 25,000 square feet of property at 1270 Columbia St. for $10.1 million to build a 47-story hotel project. The development will incorporate multiple hotels and will be the tallest building Downtown. The seller was Bay Structures. Tim Winslow, Josh Vasbinder and Jason Kimmel of Grubb & Ellis|BRE Commercial handled the transaction.



Let's just wait and see.........:shrug:


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