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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

spoonman Apr 16, 2007 5:13 AM

I forgot all about that project! Thanks for the pics SDPhil! Do you know if there are any more projects in that area besides the La Jolla Commons project?

spoonman Apr 16, 2007 5:45 AM

Hey all...here's a link to a webcam for La Jolla Commons

http://www.ljcommons.com/web_cam.asp

SD_Phil Apr 16, 2007 2:25 PM

^Awesome. Thanks for that!

bmfarley Apr 17, 2007 2:14 AM

Yeah, that UTC project looks massive.

sandiego_urban Apr 17, 2007 7:40 AM

Great La Jolla Commons link, spoonman. You oughta put that in the La Jolla Commons construction thread.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2767857)
Not to be a naysayer but I can't believe that anyone thinks that another tower will break ground in the next 36 months (besides Bosa's).

I'm confident that we'll see more groundbreakings within 3 years. Realistically, it might be 12 to 18 months before we see any new holes in the ground. What's your take on the new structure that Pinnacle is currently building at East Village Green? I don't think they'd be doing anything now, if they thought they were 3 years out from breaking ground. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'd actually be okay with no more residential towers being built for the next couple of years, just as long as we can get Cosmo and Embassy in on this cycle ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller
There are already a few thousand empty units in the pipeline (Legend, Saphire Tower, The Mark, Atria, VP, Breeza, ICON, Pacific Terrace). Who the hell is going to finance more towers?

Don't forget that many of the units were pre-sold before the shovels even hit the ground. The big question is, what percentage of the units were pre-sold?

stockjock Apr 17, 2007 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2773144)
Great La Jolla Commons link, spoonman. You oughta put that in the La Jolla Commons construction thread.



I'm confident that we'll see more groundbreakings within 3 years. Realistically, it might be 12 to 18 months before we see any new holes in the ground. What's your take on the new structure that Pinnacle is currently building at East Village Green? I don't think they'd be doing anything now, if they thought they were 3 years out from breaking ground. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'd actually be okay with no more residential towers being built for the next couple of years, just as long as we can get Cosmo and Embassy in on this cycle ;)


Don't forget that many of the units were pre-sold before the shovels even hit the ground. The big question is, what percentage of the units were pre-sold?

Since I bought at Vantage Pointe, I can come close to answering your question with respect to this building. I reserved in the first group of the first day of the pre-construction sale, which was back on 3-27-04. Do the math and you'll see what kind of wait that we have endured, as the scheduled completion date isn't until late 2008.

The response for the pre-construction sale was unbelievable. In the first 2 days that units were offered, nearly half of the building was reserved. Since there are almost 700 units in the building, you can see that this was no small task. You'd think that the developer was handing out free money! Of course, the units were well-priced, relatively speaking. Obviously, the broader real estate market was also hot. I remember looking at the MLS for 92101 at that time and there were only about 50 resale units and nothing under $500k, if memory serves.

We didn't convert to contract until late 2005, and by the time we had to sign on the dotted line and pony up more cash, some of the buyers had dropped out for a variety of reasons. I think they're now close to 50% under contract with another 1.5 to 1.75 years to go.

Once this market improves and inventory tightens up, I'm sure that you'll see things start picking up again, albeit likely without the frenzy that we saw in recent times. I wouldn't expect to see a whole lot of developers break ground before 2009 or so at the earliest, and even then, the initial quantity of new highrise buildings will likely be light until it's clear that conditions have changed.

SDCAL Apr 17, 2007 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 2770298)
Yes, I absolutely agree. Here is the problem and solution as I see it:


NEW AIRPORT = corporate expansion, more jobs, higher paying jobs, more people, increased demand for residential and commercial, taller buildings, cultural expansion, more entertainment options, better civic services...

It all starts with a new airport.

This is so true and seems so obvious, why don't the city officials get it???? :shrug:

SDCAL Apr 17, 2007 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 2770452)
You are exactly right. It is a very sad, very TRUE story...and it is partly why living in this town is so frustrating.


Edit -> People complain that the city is broke, but they don't want the city to do anything that might expand its tax base.

The military is really what is holding San Diego back. They campaigned against the Miramar site, and they have been involved in San Diego's city planning since the beginning, making many unwise decisions that favored San Diego being a military town as opposed to a thriving diverse city. It is really too bad, because we have one of the nicest geographic locations in the country

sandiegodweller Apr 17, 2007 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2773144)
Great La Jolla Commons link, spoonman. You oughta put that in the La Jolla Commons construction thread.



I'm confident that we'll see more groundbreakings within 3 years. Realistically, it might be 12 to 18 months before we see any new holes in the ground. What's your take on the new structure that Pinnacle is currently building at East Village Green? I don't think they'd be doing anything now, if they thought they were 3 years out from breaking ground. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'd actually be okay with no more residential towers being built for the next couple of years, just as long as we can get Cosmo and Embassy in on this cycle ;)


Don't forget that many of the units were pre-sold before the shovels even hit the ground. The big question is, what percentage of the units were pre-sold?

I have no idea what Pinnacle is doing on that site. They built a "new" structure on the NWC of the property and demolished some of the other structures but they haven't committed to starting the excavation yet.

As far as Cosmo Square, they haven't been able to finish the tenant improvements on their sales office next to the Hard Rock sales office for 6 months now. I don't think that bodes well for their ability to build a 40 story tower. They are also on the hook to build a new $5 million fire station in the middle of the block along 8th Avenue. I would bet that the City is going to make sure that their finances are 100% certain with some major completion bonds in place before they issue any permits.

SDCAL Apr 17, 2007 8:46 PM

In the future buildings diagrams there are categories for "fantasy" and "vision" where architects have designed some awesome, distinct, whimsical (most likely never to be built) skyscrapers. San Diego has no buildings listed for either category.

You look at Denver, Las Vegas, LA, SF, they all have visionary artists and architects who are creatively exploring the "what-ifs" - what if we had unlimited resources to build anything we want, what would it look like.

San Diego has none of this creativeness even if much of it is just "fantasy" because architects and creative planners know that with the restrictions and conservative nature being so stifling here it isn’t even worth putting such dramatic thoughts on paper, much less build them here

Even though these buildings will most likely never be built (at least in the “fantasy”; some in the “vision” section might), it is this creative spirit and the pushing-of-the-envelope mentality that fosters original and unique projects that do eventually get built and stand out on the world stage. Unfortunately, SD just doesn’t have this creative spirit yet. I bet that when buildings like SFs transamerica tower, Seattle's space needle and Sydney's opera house were in conception, conservative thinkers thought they were complete rubbish. Now they are icons of their cities.

As others have mentioned, the military control and hideous city/county officials in San Diego who are dinosaurs in their draconian and restictive thought, prefer to keep SD low-profile and the “drab, boring step-child living in the shadows of her glamorous sisters LA and SF”. It wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't think SD has the potential to be so much better because it has one of the best geographic locals in the nation/world!!

Anyway, here are some examples of the other cities visionary creativity, how would one of these buildings look in SD? :0)

LA: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=37546

Chicago: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=5138

Las Vegas (this one is actually proposed so may be built) http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=57652

SF:
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=48855
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=8848
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=49351
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=25602 (very cool :)
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=41341 This one is proposed

It is amazing that SF's city population is declining (while metro cities cuch as SJ and Oak are growing), yet the city still has all these awesome plans for skyscrapers (not the fantasy ones listed above, but actual proposed/under construction). Not to mention, their airport has one of the nicest international terminals I've seen in the world, (while LA's bradley intl terminal reminds me of the airports in the 3rd world it's so low-tech and in need of repair).

I know some people will hate me for saying this, but I think SD could learn alot in city planning from SF, both have bayfront downtowns and both have some of the same geographic concerns (fault lines, etc) - I think SF has done a great job bringing diversity together in an urban environment that flourishes despite a relatively city small population (smaller than SD). I mean look at the Asian communities - SD has tons of wonderful Asian culture, but much of it is up in the Miramar area off convoy road in nasty strip-malls and non descript buildings between car dealerships. How fantastic would it be if these cultural areas were more centralized in the center city like the Chinese and Japanese communities of LA and SD

sandiegodweller Apr 17, 2007 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2774112)
In the future buildings diagrams there are categories for "fantasy" and "vision" where architects have designed some awesome, distinct, whimsical (most likely never to be built) skyscrapers. San Diego has no buildings listed for either category.

You look at Denver, Las Vegas, LA, SF, they all have visionary artists and architects who are creatively exploring the "what-ifs" - what if we had unlimited resources to build anything we want, what would it look like.

San Diego has none of this creativeness even if much of it is just "fantasy" because architects and creative planners know that with the restrictions and conservative nature being so stifling here it isn’t even worth putting such dramatic thoughts on paper, much less build them here

Even though these buildings will most likely never be built (at least in the “fantasy”; some in the “vision” section might), it is this creative spirit and the pushing-of-the-envelope mentality that fosters original and unique projects that do eventually get built and stand out on the world stage. Unfortunately, SD just doesn’t have this creative spirit yet. I bet that when buildings like SFs transamerica tower, Seattle's space needle and Sydney's opera house were in conception, conservative thinkers thought they were complete rubbish. Now they are icons of their cities.

As others have mentioned, the military control and hideous city/county officials in San Diego who are dinosaurs in their draconian and restictive thought, prefer to keep SD low-profile and the “drab, boring step-child living in the shadows of her glamorous sisters LA and SF”. It wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't think SD has the potential to be so much better because it has one of the best geographic locals in the nation/world!!

Anyway, here are some examples of the other cities visionary creativity, how would one of these buildings look in SD? :0)

LA: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=37546

Chicago: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=5138

Las Vegas (this one is actually proposed so may be built) http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=57652

SF:
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=48855
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=8848
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=49351
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=25602 (very cool :)
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=41341 This one is proposed

It is amazing that SF's city population is declining (while metro cities cuch as SJ and Oak are growing), yet the city still has all these awesome plans for skyscrapers (not the fantasy ones listed above, but actual proposed/under construction). Not to mention, their airport has one of the nicest international terminals I've seen in the world, (while LA's bradley intl terminal reminds me of the airports in the 3rd world it's so low-tech and in need of repair).

I know some people will hate me for saying this, but I think SD could learn alot in city planning from SF, both have bayfront downtowns and both have some of the same geographic concerns (fault lines, etc) - I think SF has done a great job bringing diversity together in an urban environment that flourishes despite a relatively city small population (smaller than SD). I mean look at the Asian communities - SD has tons of wonderful Asian culture, but much of it is up in the Miramar area off convoy road in nasty strip-malls and non descript buildings between car dealerships. How fantastic would it be if these cultural areas were more centralized in the center city like the Chinese and Japanese communities of LA and SD

San Diego should resurrect Saddam Hussein and put him in charge of public works. He was able to get grand projects built with relatively no oppostion.

As far as Asians go, how do you get them to congregate in downtown? No one is forcing them to live in Manila Mesa. If it was important to them, they have the means to purchase property wherever they want. You can't force culture.

SDCAL Apr 17, 2007 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2774149)
San Diego should resurrect Saddam Hussein and put him in charge of public works. He was able to get grand projects built with relatively no oppostion.

As far as Asians go, how do you get them to congregate in downtown? No one is forcing them to live in Manila Mesa. If it was important to them, they have the means to purchase property wherever they want. You can't force culture.

Your first point implies I suggested there should be no opposition or scrutiny over proposed projects which I never did. I said that I wish there was more creativity to foster a grander vision than just the blah arcitecture that seems to dominate now. I think it's great that the CCDC and city officals have a historical committee that prevents destruction of important historical structures. I just wish the new modern architecture was more edgy and distinct, which it's not because SD is a bit backwards when it comes to creativity or trying something new in terms of architecture

As far as your second point, city planning has a large effect on cultural diversity. Denser cities like NY and SF attract a wider variety of people to their cores who then interact more with the community at large. I used Asians as just one example because SD has a significant Asian population. I thought the comparison of how SD's Asian community is integrated into the fabric of the city as compared to those of LA and SF was representative of how urbanism has evolved in each place. I never implied people should be up-rooted or forced to live where they don't want to, sorry if you took it that way.

keg92101 Apr 17, 2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2774093)
I have no idea what Pinnacle is doing on that site. They built a "new" structure on the NWC of the property and demolished some of the other structures but they haven't committed to starting the excavation yet.

That is going to be their sales center, and then become a bar & grille for the park when it is all completed.

keg92101 Apr 17, 2007 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2774112)

I know some people will hate me for saying this, but I think SD could learn alot in city planning from SF, both have bayfront downtowns and both have some of the same geographic concerns (fault lines, etc) - I think SF has done a great job bringing diversity together in an urban environment that flourishes despite a relatively city small population (smaller than SD). I mean look at the Asian communities - SD has tons of wonderful Asian culture, but much of it is up in the Miramar area off convoy road in nasty strip-malls and non descript buildings between car dealerships. How fantastic would it be if these cultural areas were more centralized in the center city like the Chinese and Japanese communities of LA and SD

Small population, but with only 47 sq. miles, they are 16,000 people per square mile!!! San Diego is about 3,800 people per square mile. It makes a huge difference for urban environments. Our downtown, today, is about 12,000 per square mile, and that is only within the bounaries of Down town. I'm sure when you cross over the 5 into Bankers Hill and Golden Hill, that number drops dramatically, which affects the urban environment.

sandiego_urban Apr 18, 2007 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockjock (Post 2773484)
Since I bought at Vantage Pointe, I can come close to answering your question with respect to this building. I reserved in the first group of the first day of the pre-construction sale, which was back on 3-27-04. Do the math and you'll see what kind of wait that we have endured, as the scheduled completion date isn't until late 2008.

I certainly feel for the future residents of VP. I can't believe you've hung in there for more than 3 years and still have to wait almost 2 more years! By the time you move in, we'll probably be starting our next residential boom downtown ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller
As far as Cosmo Square, they haven't been able to finish the tenant improvements on their sales office next to the Hard Rock sales office for 6 months now.

Yeah, I noticed that, also. When I called the developer's office to ask what was going on with the sales office, all the woman said was that they were still working things out. I point blank asked if the project was cancelled she said it wasn't, and when I asked if it was delayed she said she couldn't answer anymore questions because she was just the receptionist.

I was just happy someone was there to answer the phone :yes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL
SD has tons of wonderful Asian culture, but much of it is up in the Miramar area off convoy road in nasty strip-malls and non descript buildings between car dealerships. How fantastic would it be if these cultural areas were more centralized in the center city like the Chinese and Japanese communities of LA and SD

I love all of the Dim Sum, Korean BBQ and Boba Tea shops/restaruants in the Kearny Mesa area, also and often wonder why the area can't be developed more densely. While everything is in strip malls, I don't think it's rundown all at, especially compared to the one's you see in LA.

East San Diego, on the other hand, has all of the Vietnamese restaurants and businesses and that area can certainly use a makeover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101
Our downtown, today, is about 12,000 per square mile, and that is only within the bounaries of Down town. I'm sure when you cross over the 5 into Bankers Hill and Golden Hill, that number drops dramatically, which affects the urban environment.

When they say that the downtown population is now at about 32,000 people, aren't they talking about the one square mile area from Little Italy to Seaport Village to East Village along the 5 freeway to Cortez Hill?

sandiego_urban Apr 18, 2007 1:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2774112)
San Diego has none of this creativeness even if much of it is just "fantasy" because architects and creative planners know that with the restrictions and conservative nature being so stifling here it isn’t even worth putting such dramatic thoughts on paper, much less build them here

I'm not sure if these have been posted here before, but here is a charrette that was done for East Village by the locally-based Public Architecture. It's not over the top, but it does show that some folks here have a vision for downtown -


EAST VILLAGE
Design Charette

There is a fear of high density in San Diego, particularly in the East Village. Our developer initiated study attempts a high density, active, street wall prototype.

Central to our position is the salvaging of the ‘found object’. While Dada collagists like Kurt Schwitters used pieces of paper he found on the city streets, we propose to use pieces of old structures. These structures gave the old district the feel and texture that we love. Pieces of these objects or entire structures reside in our scheme. It is important that some pieces of the main root survive for the ecosystem to remain healthy.

The ‘ecosystem’ of our study area contributes to the idea that the downtown as a whole might achieve a community that has all the components of daily life within a relatively small geographic area. Restaurants, retail, office, and other active uses will populate the sidewalks. Transit is prevalent in the community, including the Park to Bay Link, that enhances the pedestrian way that bisects our area of study.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev02.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev03.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev04.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev05.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev06.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev07.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev08.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev09.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev10.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev11.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev12.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev13.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...t%203/ev14.jpg

bmfarley Apr 18, 2007 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2774643)
When they say that the downtown population is now at about 32,000 people, aren't they talking about the one square mile area from Little Italy to Seaport Village to East Village along the 5 freeway to Cortez Hill?

Yes, I believe so. Or to be exact... the downtown area is the CCDC boundaries. It goes as far north as either Hawthorne or Grape and is bounded by I5. In the southeast cornere it goes generally 2-4 blocks south of Imperial. And it goes with out saying that the other boundary is San Diego Bay.

keg92101 Apr 18, 2007 1:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 2774643)
I certainly feel for the future residents of VP. I can't believe you've hung in there for more than 3 years and still have to wait almost 2 more years! By the time you move in, we'll probably be starting our next residential boom downtown ;)


Yeah, I noticed that, also. When I called the developer's office to ask what was going on with the sales office, all the woman said was that they were still working things out. I point blank asked if the project was cancelled she said it wasn't, and when I asked if it was delayed she said she couldn't answer anymore questions because she was just the receptionist.

I was just happy someone was there to answer the phone :yes:



I love all of the Dim Sum, Korean BBQ and Boba Tea shops/restaruants in the Kearny Mesa area, also and often wonder why the area can't be developed more densely. While everything is in strip malls, I don't think it's rundown all at, especially compared to the one's you see in LA.

East San Diego, on the other hand, has all of the Vietnamese restaurants and businesses and that area can certainly use a makeover.


When they say that the downtown population is now at about 32,000 people, aren't they talking about the one square mile area from Little Italy to Seaport Village to East Village along the 5 freeway to Cortez Hill?

Downtown is 1500 acres, which gives you about 2 1/2 sq. miles

sandiego_urban Apr 18, 2007 1:52 AM

While highrises are nice, it's the smaller projects that help keep the downtown streets more human scale.

Check out the projects coming from Public Architecure. http://www.publicdigital.com/. They're putting out some cool stuff :tup:


Sigsbee Row
Under Construction

Architectural flavor relects the light industrial quality that creates the social fabric of Barrio Logan with fourteen market rate condominiums.
It is only two blocks from a dense uban core; large steel windows and high ceilings front the street and provide ample opportunites for pedestrian exchanges. Most units are entered through gardened stoops and have balconies that enliven the street.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...20Street04.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...20Street02.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...20Street01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...20Cleaners.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...ourtyard02.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...ourtyard01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...ee20Sketch.jpg



South Block
Estimated Completion Winter 2007

The project is located at 6th and ‘G’ Streets in Downtown San Diego. It is a 106 unit mixed use project, and one of the few rental projects being developed in the city. The structure is cast in place concrete with in fill glazing. The project makes use of a floating sun tempering element that sets out from the face of the building on the west side and is suspended over the sidewalk below. It is, in essence, a second window system partially covered with photographic translucent film. Both the glass of the building skin itself, and this outer hanging element will receive the film. Every ten years, a photographic artist will be commissioned to tell a new story on the building.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...st-600x400.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...st-600x400.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...th-600x400.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...h2-600x400.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...st-600x400.jpg



Tanks of All Types
Proposal

In Little Italy, there is a lot of stuff going on, the rush of trains, planes, automobiles, construction cranes, and condo dwellers.

The leftover pieces of industry lure the artists, and the small retail boutiques spread. Buildings might be saved, because we all crave history and find beauty in old things.

Meanwhile, rapid development drives the Little Italy Arts District to the track. But, the railroad might offer additional street frontage. It is gritty, but call it home. Off the beaten track!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s1-400x600.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s2-400x600.jpg

sandiego_urban Apr 18, 2007 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101 (Post 2774736)
Downtown is 1500 acres, which gives you about 2 1/2 sq. miles

Ok, I just checked the map and the border area I mentioned looks to be just over 2 square miles. I didn't realize that Broadway Ave. goes for about 1.5 miles from the 5 Freeway all the way to the Bay. No wonder it seems like a far walk from Petco Park all the way to Little Italy


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