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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

Urban Sky Mar 31, 2007 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 2732261)
^id rather actually see a plaza there


good idea:tup:

actually, id rather that they used it in the same way miami did with some of their more angular parcels off of brickell. i dont think we have any major triangle buildings though.

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/...l_Flatiron.jpg

of course, i could always settle for a really nice plaza. emphasis on really nice. its cant be something boring. thatd be a waste

Derek Mar 31, 2007 10:10 PM

actually i changed my mind...because if they put a parking lot there...there wont be much conflict when they decide to build something there...but if it is a park or a plaza and someone decides to build there...the NIMBYs are gonna have a shit fit

bmfarley Apr 1, 2007 3:15 AM

If it is to be a parking lot I am sure it's just temporary. Heck, it was just a guess to begin with. They may be clearing the lot to actually start construction... but doubt it.

sandiegodweller Apr 1, 2007 5:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 2733960)
If it is to be a parking lot I am sure it's just temporary. Heck, it was just a guess to begin with. They may be clearing the lot to actually start construction... but doubt it.

Uh... no.

The only way to make money on this site for the next 36 months is a parking lot.

This part of town is still 2 real estate cylces away (especially since they paid more than $3 million per acre ($100 psf) for the dirt.

In all honesty, who would live there when you can get places in much better locations for under replacement cost right now?

PadreHomer Apr 1, 2007 6:48 AM

A parking lot is not optimal, but its better than a dirt lot. It also means its easy for them to build something there when they get around to it. The ballpark village site is all parking right now, I hope that actually gets built someday.

ShekelPop Apr 1, 2007 8:08 AM

the architect teddy cruz is supposed to be designing a mixed use project (something like 2-3 stories with underground parking) on one of the triangle lots over there but im not sure which one

sandiegodweller Apr 1, 2007 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShekelPop (Post 2734417)
the architect teddy cruz is supposed to be designing a mixed use project (something like 2-3 stories with underground parking) on one of the triangle lots over there but im not sure which one

This Triangle Project in the picture is owned by Intracorp and is already approved. Intracorp has been trying to sell the approved project for more than a year. You would basically need Intracorp to give the land away for free (and maybe even subsidize the construction) before the project would make any money. Someone is not going to come out whole on the site.

"Located in downtown San Diego's East Village neighborhood.

Intracorp San Diego is planning a mixed-use development consisting of two buildings containing 57 condominiums, 4,000 square feet of retail, and 84 parking spaces on the triangular-shaped block located between 14th Street and Imperial and National avenues. The project is expected to begin in early 2006 with a summer 2007 completion date."

Derek Apr 1, 2007 5:49 PM

parking lots suck:(

bmfarley Apr 1, 2007 9:23 PM

What do you know... my guess was correct. From teh CCDC page and Board update...applications in process:

Triangle Surface Parking Lot (Ace Parking) – Centre City Conditional Use Permit to allow a 75-space temporary surface parking lot located on a 23,000 square-foot lot located on the south side of Imperial Avenue between 13th and 14th streets – East Village.

Derek Apr 1, 2007 9:24 PM

keyword:temporary;)

Derek Apr 1, 2007 9:28 PM

Citiplace (Essex Property Trust) – Centre City Development Permit for 140 units in a six-story building located on the north side of Ash Street between Front and First Avenue – Cortez.

Candlewood Suites (Jacquelyn Carroll) – Centre City Development Permit for a 126-room, seven-story hotel located on the south side of Ash Street between Tenth and Eleventh avenues – Cortez.

6th Avenue Office Condominiums (ENDEV) – Centre City Development Permit/Variance for 12 office condominiums (37,838 square feet of office space) and 2,162 square feet of commercial retail space in a 13-story building located at 453 and 459 Sixth Avenue – East Village.

15th & Market (CJUF II Lankford Market LLC) – Centre City Development Permit for a mixed-use project consisting of 274 residential units and 25,000 square feet of retail space in a 5/22 story (240 feet) building located along the west side of 15th Street between Market and G streets – East Village.


dont think we have seen these yet...

spoonman Apr 1, 2007 10:11 PM

I'd like to get everyone's opinion on this...

Does anyone think that serious hi-rise development (like the kind we've seen the past few years) will continue without a boom in office construction?

I personally do not think that significant residential hi-rise construction will continue without a modest-significant amount of commercial activity like NBC to back it up (unless of couse enough years pass with no activity, then another boom happens because of changing circumstance). If we don't get NBC or a handful of smaller commercial projects, I believe we will have a trickle of projects, like Bosa churning out a nice tower every few years. I think now is the time we need more offices and retailers.

Derek Apr 1, 2007 10:18 PM

^depends on how you look at it, if you conider Lane Field, NBC and the IM Pei site, then yes, a few office high rises will be added in the future, but not much...

spoonman Apr 1, 2007 10:55 PM

^The question is really: "do you think significant residential development is sustainable without further enhancements", not whether or not office development will happen.

There are two major reasons for developing anything; actual need and speculation. Since speculation time has passed for the time being, the question of need (demand) remains. I do not believe there is much demand for two reasons. 1) Prices are still very high and 2) Downtown still needs more amenities to increase it's appeal to San Diegans who currently reside in the suburbs. Also, many people in the suburbs live closer to their jobs now, than if they lived in dt.

keg92101 Apr 1, 2007 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2735527)
^The question is really: "do you think significant residential development is sustainable without further enhancements", not whether or not office development will happen.

There are two major reasons for developing anything; actual need and speculation. Since speculation time has passed for the time being, the question of need (demand) remains. I do not believe there is much demand for two reasons. 1) Prices are still very high and 2) Downtown still needs more amenities to increase it's appeal to San Diegans who currently reside in the suburbs. Also, many people in the suburbs live closer to their jobs now, than if they lived in dt.

The main problem with business locating in downtown is the "perception" that there is a lack of parking. The truth is that there is plenty of parking, and once that fact is conveyed, along with all of the construction/renovation of top office buildings, companies will start to move down here. There also needs to be more top level "exectutive housing". The bosses need to live in downtown if they are going to be moving their business down here, and there is currently mostly nice, middle management housing in downtown. An executive has to be willing to give up his/her house in la jolla, for a top notch penthouse/townhouse. There are some nice penthouses in SD, but as for large, luxurious townhouses, there are none. Irvine Co is providing the top notch office space, now hopefully the residential developers will provide housing for the bosses to live in, whether in d-town or uptown.

bmfarley Apr 1, 2007 11:55 PM

I'd like to see more office downtown. Heck, a nice hospital and medical establishment DT seem warranted too. But at the end of the day, I don't know what will happen with the office building market.

It should noted that the office market is not weak. It's just over shadowed by the high residential activity we've seen over the past couple-few years. Diamond View, a few work-lofts, Lane Field, the expected IM Pei building are notable additions. All things aside, those additions are welcomed and represent a respectable pace of things... imo.

eburress Apr 2, 2007 12:37 AM

I think downtown is already rich with "amenities" like shopping, dining, entertainment, and outdoor recreation -- and this is only going to get better with the increasing residential population.

Employment is the key to sustaining residential growth though...in downtown and in the entire region. Without places to work, residential growth will slow or stop.

In downtown, the recent office projects like the Pei/Cobb tower and the NBC project will help, but there needs to be MANY more. Regionally, a new airport needs to be built in order to attract/encourage corporate expansion.

OCtoSD Apr 2, 2007 12:50 AM

Excerpt From CB Ellis Report on Office Space
 
Apparently SD has one of the lowest vacancy rates nationally, meaning there is potential for new construction. Whether this means the market can absorb more than NBC and the new Irvine tower is another deal. We will know that we are finally in an office boom when lennar moves on the Ballpark parking lots to construct office space. A national company that big has analysts up the wazoo and will only move on a project if they can get a 20 percent return on the capitol they put in. Since everyone seeks financing, the project must generate a twenty percent return after interest is paid on the loans. This Report has 2006 gov. data so had to be done very recently.

Full report can be found at this link. It includes other refrences to San Diego, regarding how much space mortgage companies are leasing, and tech companies.
http://www.grubb-ellis.com/research/...sngOff_v19.pdf

Office Market Trends
The office market is moving through a classic recovery cycle; absorption is
strong, construction is modest, vacancy rates are falling, and rental rates are
spiking in a small number of markets and at least stirring in most of the rest.
The vacancy rate ended the second quarter of 2006 at 13.9 percent compared with 14.3 percent in the prior quarter and 15.6 percent in the year-ago quarter.
However, on average, vacancy remains above the generally accepted equilibrium rate of 10 to 12 percent, a sign that tenants continue to call the shots in a number of markets. Market conditions are tightest in Bakersfield, Cal. at 4.8
percent vacant followed by New York City and the adjacent Southern
California markets of Riverside-San Bernardino and Orange County. Other
markets with single-digit vacancy rates include San Diego and Fresno, Cal.; the
three major South Florida markets of Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach
counties; the inland West cities of Las Vegas and Colorado Springs;
Washington, D.C. and Honolulu. At the other extreme, markets saddled with
vacancy rates above 20 percent include San Mateo (south of San Francisco),
Dallas-Fort Worth and Detroit. Markets that are tightening most rapidly include
Denver, San Francisco, San Antonio, Phoenix, Miami-Dade and San Jose/Silicon
Valley, all posting vacancy declines of more than three percentage points in
the past four quarters versus the 1.7 percentage-point drop in the U.S. vacancy
rate.
Demand continued to outrun new supply in the second quarter, as it has for
the past nine quarters. Net absorption of 18.7 million square feet easily topped
the 10.2 million square feet of new space delivered. This gap is the catalyst
behind the continuing decline in the vacancy rate. Year-to-date, tenant
demand for space has been strongest in Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth and New
York City, all of which absorbed between 3.0 and 3.3 million square feet. The
suburban New York City markets of Westchester County and Long Island, N.Y.
posted the largest negative net absorption totals of -520,000 and -340,000
square feet, respectively.
Competitive office space under construction crept up again to end the quarter
at 64.1 million square feet, 9 percent above the prior quarter and double the
year-ago quarter. However, construction activity is barely half the 124.9 million
square feet recorded in the third quarter of 2000, the peak of the prior expansion
cycle. With 14.5 million square feet underway, Washington, DC, including
its Virginia and Maryland suburbs, is, by far, the most active market for office
construction. Phoenix and Atlanta are a distant second and third, with 4.1 and
3.8 million square feet in the pipeline, respectively.

Derek Apr 2, 2007 3:24 AM

downtown and the surrounding areas (i.e. Pt. Loma, Hillcrest, University and City Heights etc...)have all the ammenities i need...i love it down here!!!

Crackertastik Apr 2, 2007 4:56 AM

I got really bored, and decided to take a stab at my ideal Lane Field development since i think the current proposal sucks massive you know whats. I know i like height but i also love open space along a waterfront. I also know its quite a bit too valuable a location to just plop down a park. So to please all parties, NIMBYs, developers in it to make money, and urban enthusiasts who like height and pedestrian traffic, this is my proposal. Hotels, street level commercial, and open space all in one. Borrowed the elevated park idea from things ive have seen being developed in New York and other places. Best of both worlds.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3...nefieldkg2.png

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4...efield2nn1.png

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8...efield3yy1.png

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2...efield4eg4.png


What do you think of the look and of the idea of elevated parks in general?


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