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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=126473)

Crackertastik Aug 17, 2007 6:49 PM

I mentioned iconic structures as well as tall structures (which are iconic by default due to height)

And paris certainly has no shortage of iconic structures. san diego is completely lacking.

SD_Phil Aug 17, 2007 7:00 PM

There was always this:

http://www.portofsandiego.org/sandie...t_sideview.jpg

Iconic but :yuck:

eburress Aug 17, 2007 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101 (Post 3015180)
You know, its interesting that most comments in this thread are vague wishes like the one above. Are most people refering to only height? Is the greater goal the image of our skyline? Or is the hope that our city will become what we all belive it can? One of the great places to visit in the world; along the lines of San Francisco, London, New york, and Paris. For any of you that have visited those cities, which I am assuming is many of you, what do skylines have to do with a city's greatness? When you go to Manhattan, do you go to the Financial District or the Meatpacking District? When you go to London do you go to Canery Wharf or Covent Garden? The greatest areas of a city aren't measured by the size of its buildings, but by the coulture and people that walk the streets.

I can't speak for "most people" but I wasn't personally referring only to height -- I figured that while I was wishing for things, I may as well wish for some height to go along with Vancouver's density, aesthetics, and pretty buildings.

I don't think being one of the great places in the World to visit is in any way dependent on height, but I think having a good (i.e., nice, striking, appealing) skyline is ABSOLUTELY dependent upon height. Like somebody else suggested though, this isn't a "Your City's Greatness" forum. It's a "Your City's Skyscrapers" forum. :)

keg92101 Aug 18, 2007 1:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eburress (Post 3016237)
I can't speak for "most people" but I wasn't personally referring only to height -- I figured that while I was wishing for things, I may as well wish for some height to go along with Vancouver's density, aesthetics, and pretty buildings.

I don't think being one of the great places in the World to visit is in any way dependent on height, but I think having a good (i.e., nice, striking, appealing) skyline is ABSOLUTELY dependent upon height. Like somebody else suggested though, this isn't a "Your City's Greatness" forum. It's a "Your City's Skyscrapers" forum. :)

Downtown is the place for skysrapers. Hopefully, our city's growth plan will allow for the 6-10 story buildings to spread into our older, neighborhoods, as they have in Banker's Hill; Sherman Heights, Golden Hill, Barrio Logan, and Logan heights. The residents there, that are trying to keep the growth out, need to understand that the only way they will update and improve their aging ifrastructure is a higher tax base, acheived through density.

On a seperate note, I think that the 7th & Market building will move forward. Related is showing renderings of it in their last add in UrbanLand Magazine.

eburress Aug 18, 2007 5:14 AM

By the way, I love that Monaco has CURVES...San Diego needs more curves! :)

IconRPCV Aug 18, 2007 5:38 PM

San Diego Icons
 
I feel San Diego has icons, it is just that San Diego is not very good at promoting them. The city does not choose one image and then stick with it. The California Tower in Balboa Park, the Hotel Del, The Mission, the Gaslamp Quarter Sign, Petco Park, any of these could be the image that represents San Diego if one was the only image that San Diego utilized in its literature and promotions. Instead any and all images are used and no one stands out in people's minds as San Diego.

SDCAL Aug 18, 2007 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101 (Post 3016151)
That is not always true. Paris is one of the most dense cities in the world (more than NYC) and it has a six story cap on most of its city.

But Paris' low-rise architecture is a disctinction in itself, very old, and taller buildings would drown out the history of the city so it's not a fair comparison. San Diego, with lead from the CCDC, has tried to market it's downtown as a new, modern city center and in the US height does go hand-in hand with that, though it's not the only thing. Part of the majic of Manhattan is the street life, but part of it is also driving over the brooklyn Bridge and seeing the awe-inspiring skyline or walking on the street and looking up at the amazing tall skyscrapers. Do you think Chicago would be as well known as it is today if it had a 500 ft height limit?

I think the bitching going on on this site has alot to do with the fear of a plateau skyline. Many high-rises are going up near the 500ft mark because they can't go higher, and if it continues our skyline will look like a glass and steel mesa. There are always two views to an urban core, the vibrancy of the street-level activity and the view of the skyline from far away. Yes, visitors will experience the street life but people in India or Africa who can't travel here will see pictures of our skyline which, in my opinion, is hindered by the height restrictions

bmfarley Aug 18, 2007 6:43 PM

I feel San diego is a bit culturally lacking. However, another poster/blogger provided a reasonably good explanation why that is so.... the city is too young relative to other culturally rich cities. I think of New York, Chicago, Philidelphia, or even San Francisco. San Diego is also a little smaller.

If I could turn dreams into reality... I'd like to see stuff like these ideas:

An iconic building similar to Sydney's Opera House in the vicinity of Seaport Village.

An arc like the Arc de Triomphe at the Laurel Street entrance to Balbloa Park.
Here's a picture barrowed from this travel website http://www.destination360.com/europe...e-triomphe.php .
http://www.destination360.com/europe...e-triomphe.jpg
Maybe the symbolism could have a theme of tolerance and call it the 'Arc of Tolerance.' or something.... keeping in mind that we're all just human regardless of our religous beliefs or sexual preference or what-have you. Or some other merit worthy theme. It would sure look cool to look at when flying into Lindbergh out the right side windows.

And, in Balboa Park directly east of the El Prado and promenade area and east across the valley where Park Boulevard runs and above Florida Drive.... a statue or set of statues facing west. Something big to look at ...and use the El Prado or eastern flower garden area as viewing areas. What could it be? I don't know? Alonzo Horton? War heros? Mt Rushmore west?

As an aside... wouldn't it be cool to look northeasterly from downtown high rises and see a large head sticking above the tree line? Ha ha ha.

SDCAL Aug 19, 2007 5:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 3012887)
I went into the Downtown Info Center today and saw that the mini model of Monaco has been added. Lookin good :tup:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...r/IMG_9868.jpg

Last time I went there was a foam library tower on the map, have they taken it off since the project is likely not gonna happen?

I wish a foam rendering at the CCDC map was an indicator something will for sure happen, but it's not; it's just like their website, unreliable

sandiegodweller Aug 19, 2007 3:00 PM

No more Library Tower
 
,,,,

sandiegodweller Aug 19, 2007 3:01 PM

No more Library Tower
 
Condo growth slowing down

Construction costs, stricter lending rules blamed; some projects sold, others are redesigned
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 19, 2007

LAURA EMBRY / Union-Tribune
Atmosphere is one of two downtown San Diego condo projects that started then stalled.
The bones of what was supposed to be Atmosphere, nearly 80 “luxury live/work units for a life well-designed,” sit open to public view. Naked steel rods and yawning holes are in the earth. The wood and chain-link fence around the site looks like it has been pried open in a couple of places.

Atmosphere is one of two downtown San Diego condo projects that started then stalled. The developer of Triangle, at 14th Street and Imperial Avenue, demolished an old warehouse and then stopped. It's a parking lot now.

The rest of the tale is told in the quarterly status log of Centre City Development Corp., which oversees downtown redevelopment. Five condo projects with development permits are up for sale or recently sold. Four more in the development pipeline are being redesigned; at least one of those is changing to a hotel. The downtown agency finally closed the file on another condo proposal after the builder stopped calling or submitting documents.

It's a whiplash change of pace for the once white-hot downtown residential market. A year ago, giant construction cranes were mostly there to build condos. Many cranes that remain will be diverted to different kinds of projects – increasingly, hotels.

Downtown residents give this trend mixed reviews.

“As lots stay empty, they become homes for the homeless and a potential for increased crime,” Tybor said.

Joyce Summer, a Cortez Hill resident, said her worst fear is towers left halfway finished.

On the other hand, Gary Smith of the Downtown Residents Group said a slowdown gives the city time to catch up.

Downtown San Diego had 17,000 residents in 2000. The roughly 30,000 residents living downtown today still are waiting for parks and other public amenities that most city neighborhoods have.

“This gives us a little breathing space,” Smith said.

The buzz these days is about hotels, with six major hospitality ventures being proposed along the waterfront. Offices also have shown some spark: The Irvine Co. is getting permits for a 34-story office tower and Manchester Development's plan for four office buildings was just approved.

Downtown condominium builders appear to be in a holding pattern.

One factor is banks are getting stricter on lending money; they want developers to put more of their own cash into condo projects, now that the real estate boom is over.
Another reason for the condo slowdown is skyrocketing construction prices, which have made new housing projects look less profitable.

San Diego's position as one of the top five travel destinations in the nation makes the city a hot market for hotels, according to the San Diego Convention & Visitors Bureau.

Downtown hotels are running about 75 percent full, and the average room price is $182.73 a night, up 6 percent from last year. The convention center is basically booked solid, officials say.

“All that adds up to a very healthy hotel market and one of the strongest in the country,” said David Peckinpaugh, visitors bureau president.

Some residential builders say they are waiting until the current glut of new condos is sold out. They hope to position themselves to be first with new units when the market, in theory, swings upward again.

“Sometime this fall or early next winter, you're going to see several projects start,” said Sherm Harmer, chairman of the Downtown Residential Marketing Alliance, a developer group.

Not everyone thinks the condo market will spring back quite so fast.

San Diego real estate economist Gary London said the downtown skyline won't see many new residential towers for at least four years.

“There is a pipeline of 9,000 units of projects that are planned after this year – most of which won't be built,” London said.

The good news for developers – but not for bargain-hunting consumers – is that prices on new condo units, while no longer meteoric, have not taken a steep dive.

In the second quarter of this year, the median new home price in the downtown ZIP code was $411,500, according to DataQuick Information Services. In 2006, that figure was $437,000; in 2005, it was $408,750; and in 2004 it was $439,000. Geography is playing a role in a developer's degree of bullishness.

Bosa Development Corp. owns five parcels fairly close to North Embarcadero. Developer Nat Bosa intends to break ground next year on a condo tower at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street, a spokesman said.

Another Bosa project called Bayside, at Pacific Highway and Ash Street, is under construction and completion is expected in 2009. Luxury units in that building began selling in February. The starting price was $750,000.

“When you are building higher-end units on 'A' locations, that buyer is less apt to be concerned about . . . short-term ramifications of prices dropping 5 percent, 6 percent,” said Bosa sales and marketing director Dennis Serraglio. “They know that, long term, great locations in a great city are irreplaceable.”

It's another story in the East Village. Intracorp said its Triangle condo project was a little premature.

“It's in an area that will do better with a little time,” said company President William Nichols.

The leader of the pack in condo redesign is probably the Elle, once proposed as a 173-unit housing project on A Street in Little Italy.

The Elle is now Columbia Tower, a 364-room hotel proposed by a new owner. The hotel will include 63 condo units.

Urban Housing Partners, Harmer's company, recently changed the land-use designation for its Library Tower project, once envisioned as 174 condos in a slender tower at Park Boulevard and K Street.

Harmer said his company is considering a boutique hotel or condo-hotel combination at the site, which is close to a huge Marriott convention hotel proposal.

Back at the Atmosphere site on Fifth, some downtown dwellers have complained that the stalled project's leftovers are unsightly and unsafe.

The downtown redevelopment agency forwarded those objections to the city's code enforcement unit, but an enforcement officer who checked it out said no city regulations have been violated.

The architect for the “live/work units” said the delay is in part caused by the death of the original developer. The site has gone through four owners since then, said David Hawkins of the Hawkins Hawkins Anderson firm.

The current one – who purchased the land in February, according to county records – plans to move ahead this month or next, Hawkins said. The project is still envisioned as condos.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeanette Steele: (619) 293-1030; jen.steele@uniontrib.com

bmfarley Aug 19, 2007 5:40 PM

Mmmm... The Downtown Residential Marketing Alliance commented on the state of affairs in the above article. Since they are the broadband marketing of downtown living and development it makes sense that they'd forward a positive picture. “Sometime this fall or early next winter, you're going to see several projects start,” ... ???

I wish it to be true, but I have doubts.

Interestingly, Library Tower is not dead... but may re-emerge as a boutique hotel? I speculate that it'll be dependant on the Ballpark Village plan and the large hotel planned for the SE corner of Imperial & Park Blvd.

Derek Aug 19, 2007 6:18 PM

If Library Tower emerges as a boutique hotel, I won't complain. :)

obendega Aug 19, 2007 6:49 PM

I am glad to see that Atmosphere is likely to be re started. I live on 5th and it is sad to walk by that lot.

spoonman Aug 19, 2007 7:18 PM

Quote:

Bosa Development Corp. owns five parcels fairly close to North Embarcadero. Developer Nat Bosa intends to break ground next year on a condo tower at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street, a spokesman said.
^^^Did anyone catch this? This is that other tower that was right on the corner of ash opposite the tracks from Bayside. The renderings are/were very cool. I haven't seen it on CCDC for some time, but I guess it's coming back unless they meant to say First and Island which I doubt.

http://www.amanatarchitect.com/kettner.html
http://www.amanatarchitect.com/images/kettner-east.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...tnernight2.jpg

eburress Aug 20, 2007 4:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 3019176)
^^^Did anyone catch this? This is that other tower that was right on the corner of ash opposite the tracks from Bayside. The renderings are/were very cool. I haven't seen it on CCDC for some time, but I guess it's coming back unless they meant to say First and Island which I doubt.

http://www.amanatarchitect.com/kettner.html
http://www.amanatarchitect.com/images/kettner-east.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...tnernight2.jpg

Oh yayyyy -- that one was one of my favorites! Sweet! Good buildings are back in SD!!

Derek Aug 20, 2007 5:39 AM

That is a good looking tower.

SDCAL Aug 21, 2007 2:04 AM

Looks as if this board is dead with the bad news about condo towers being cancelled.

I still think developement of hotels will continue to be strong, that seems like the one thing SD can still really use. I am really hoping office development will flourish during the condo downturn and give jobs and business the chance to catch-up to the residential boom, but who knows

Derek Aug 21, 2007 4:29 AM

I'm seriously hoping that Library Tower will come out as a condotel.

eburress Aug 21, 2007 5:50 AM

^^ I tall, thin, curvy condotel.


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