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https://goo.gl/maps/WixNoMAj4RwKyB7x9 https://goo.gl/maps/1MFWC87G7TMpeMhS7 You can even see donut lines in this one: https://goo.gl/maps/YWKJmfTwitWadfzT7 And then there's this: https://goo.gl/maps/cQDZGoVpRFW3dVWC7 |
The Toledo War never dies.
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^ and Toledo has a very highly regarded art museum as well.
Perhaps even better than Detroit's or Cleveland's? FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! |
Someone from Detroit playing the google streetview game...that's a bold move. Careful with that.
University Circle is far less autocentric than basically anything in Detroit. Detroit has as much rail in the ground as Cincinnati-- a small streetcar line. Meanwhile, Cleveland has two light rail lines, a heavy rail line that serves the airport, downtown, and University Circle, and multiple BRT lines. Here's the recently redone Little Italy/University Circle Rapid station, which is about a 10-15 min walk from the art museum: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5086...7i16384!8i8192 A quick Google of "best art museums in the US" yields these lists. Each lists Cleveland above Detroit: https://www.timeout.com/usa/things-t...ums-in-america https://www.tripsavvy.com/top-art-mu...states-3301103 https://www.ranker.com/list/best-art.../admiralcrunch There is a pretty commonly known "Big 5" of US orchestras. They are New York, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Cleveland. Check the wiki page for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_(orchestras) Considering it's a substantially larger city/metro than Cleveland, it's somewhat embarrassing how Detroit under performs in these cultural metrics. |
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The battle for control of the Maumee is real.
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It does piss me off the that Detroit region is so autocentric that the Woodward-facing entrances of the art museum and library are now the "back doors", and the main entrances now face the rear parking lots. This is also true of many of the grand churches in Midtown, like the Episcopal Cathedral. And it isn't like I'm expecting suburbanites to take transit. The DIA built a parking garage beneath the museum in the 1950's, but let it deteriorate, and now it sits empty. So instead of nearby building fabric, you get the parking lot moonscapes. In any case, this is silly conversation. Cleveland and Detroit are both roughly equivalent high culture heavyweights. |
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So how you figure that it is not the same at all? :haha: Quote:
Syracuse and Springfield... Detroit and Wichita? Portland and Providence... Duluth and Evansville? |
Buffalo and Baltimore.... Columbus and Indianapolis?
Portland and Erie.... Fort Wayne and Green Bay? |
Boston and Baltimore feel pretty damn different to me, about as different as St. Louis and Cleveland IMO.
Also love how St. Louis' world-class legacy/cultural institutions are consistently left out of these conversations about best in the Midwest. Botanical Garden (top 3 in the world), Zoo (top 3 in the US), Art Museum, Contemporary Art Museum, Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts, Symphony Orchestra (second oldest in the US), Municipal Theater (oldest outdoor theater in the US), Black Rep Theater (in general the theater scene is top notch), Circus Flora (yes, we have our own circus that trains people from all over the wold in circus arts), Science Center, Forest Park and the rest of the park system, the public library system, National Building Arts Center, Laumier Sculpture Park, etc. St. Louis' cultural institutions are every bit as diverse and distinguished as anywhere else in the Midwest. |
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I think the conversations are great, just think it's funny when it seems like people are taking it a bit too seriously and might be starting to a difference of opinion about their city a little personally. |
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Yes, they’re all in the geographic Northeast. That’s a factual statement because the Northeast is an actual locational / directional term. I specifically chose East Coast examples and interior examples within the northeast to show the difference. Very few people would paint Philly and Rochester with the same brush. Philly is East Coast, Rochester is not. You can’t say the same for the Midwest… completely arbitrary, in any sense. Yet, Midwest will be hung on Duluth, Evansville, Omaha, Detroit… and maybe even Buffalo, Rochester, and Pittsburgh as if it’s defining terminology for all. |
I'd argue that the Appalachians are a pretty major cultural divide, and places like Duluth and Evansville, while indeed different, have more in common than places on other side of the Appalachian divide.
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Duluth and Evansville are quite an odd couple though as Midwestern though, wouldn’t you say? Duluth is Canadian and Evansville flies under the Confederate flag. |
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Boston and Baltimore are Yankee and Midlands versions of the same city. St. Louis and Cleveland… Seriously? They’re not even on the same planet, relatively speaking. What color is the sky in your world? :haha: |
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Boston and Baltimore are very culturally and aesthetically different. In all honesty though if I were to compare Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland, and Boston. I would say that Boston would be the clear outlier. For one, Baltimore, St. Louis, and Cleveland are essentially working class, African-American cities at their core. Baltimore and St. Louis are both border cities, brick cities, have HBCUs, world renowned medical centers, independent cities, struggle with violence and segregation. St. Louis is essentially a Midwestern version of Baltimore. I think Cleveland and Boston are more aesthetically similar, Cleveland's architecture is defintely New England inspired. With that said, I think Cleveland and St. Louis share that working class vibe and culturally more interchangeable with each other than either one is with Boston. Being from St. Louis I feel Philadelphia and Baltimore remind me the most of home. Boston, NYC, DC give off way more of the coastal elite vibe. |
^ you’re reading from a different page of music.
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