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jeddy1989 Sep 2, 2014 3:08 AM

So what the heck is going on with the Avalon Mall? I've been wonderin this for a few months now.
They have to have something planned.
They have jacked the rent (which has caused the stores that cannot afford it to close) and they are forcing the stores that stay to update/renovate their stores.

This is causing most of the stores in the mall to renovate.
The only reason I can see them doing this is for them to be trying to create a upper scale mall by getting rid of the stores that cannot afford higher rent or to renovate to a more modern look.
I'm guessing that the next phase in this might be them actually renovating the mall itself.
The store Sephora has delayed its opening in the mall and other stores are expanding etc. I do not know where Sephora is going to go! that's usually a large store!

I think that it is possible that with Galway underway and the commercial part will be in phase 1, maybe they're threatened a bit by new shiny retail streets (we still don't know the plan) I don't know. and maybe they're just trying to carve out a more refined identity in the retail scene as it grows?

In my big dreams I'm hopping it's because there's a shiny brand new mall coming our way! (I can dream lol)

anyways, I don't know if anyone here knows anything about what's going on.

MonctonRad Sep 2, 2014 11:23 AM

:previous:

They have done exactly the same thing at Champlain Place in Moncton too. They spent about $15M on upgrading the physical premises, kicked out all the local retailers and have since replaced them with upscale national brands like Victoria's Secret/Pink, Coach. Sephora, Fossil etc.

In essence, in most larger markets the only malls that now survive and prosper are upscale fashion malls appealing to the higher end demographic. Most of the plebes, lesser mortals and the great unwashed end up going to the power centres and strip malls in any event.

Arrakis Sep 2, 2014 11:33 AM

I don't think the mall has any control of who renovates or not. I would imagine that decision would come from the head office of that particular chain store and not from the mall people.

The rent issue on the other hand is a different issue. They did increase the rent recently in the food court causing one tenant to close. Notably, it was a local tenant and not a big national chain which can afford and deal with rent increases.

Avalon Mall is in dire need of a major upgrade though. It's kinda stuck in the 80's right now inside. The outside of Sears is even worse and has pretty much looked like that since 1967 when the mall first opened with that super dated stone facade.



Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 6713511)
So what the heck is going on with the Avalon Mall? I've been wonderin this for a few months now.
They have to have something planned.
They have jacked the rent (which has caused the stores that cannot afford it to close) and they are forcing the stores that stay to update/renovate their stores.

This is causing most of the stores in the mall to renovate.
The only reason I can see them doing this is for them to be trying to create a upper scale mall by getting rid of the stores that cannot afford higher rent or to renovate to a more modern look.
I'm guessing that the next phase in this might be them actually renovating the mall itself.
The store Sephora has delayed its opening in the mall and other stores are expanding etc. I do not know where Sephora is going to go! that's usually a large store!

I think that it is possible that with Galway underway and the commercial part will be in phase 1, maybe they're threatened a bit by new shiny retail streets (we still don't know the plan) I don't know. and maybe they're just trying to carve out a more refined identity in the retail scene as it grows?

In my big dreams I'm hopping it's because there's a shiny brand new mall coming our way! (I can dream lol)

anyways, I don't know if anyone here knows anything about what's going on.


Marty_Mcfly Sep 2, 2014 12:42 PM

I think the plan for Sephora was to create one huge store where Bootlegger, Rikki's, and Alia are. Bootlegger is moving upstairs where the calender club and jewelry store are, Rikki's is moving out of the mall, and Alia, Calender club, and that one jewelry story are all done.

It seems counter-productive for a mall that is absolutely out of space to be removing the number of stores to create larger stores. Especially considering I don't think it's current plan of building stores in the parking lot is working too well.

jeddy1989 Sep 2, 2014 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 6713671)
I don't think the mall has any control of who renovates or not. I would imagine that decision would come from the head office of that particular chain store and not from the mall people.

The rent issue on the other hand is a different issue. They did increase the rent recently in the food court causing one tenant to close. Notably, it was a local tenant and not a big national chain which can afford and deal with rent increases.

Avalon Mall is in dire need of a major upgrade though. It's kinda stuck in the 80's right now inside. The outside of Sears is even worse and has pretty much looked like that since 1967 when the mall first opened with that super dated stone facade.

They do have control over it and it's being forced, in the past few months Northern Reflections, Urban Planet, Suzy shier, Bogarts, Scotia Bank, Charm Diamond Centre and a few others have renovated or moved because they have a newly renovated store. My sister used to work at one of them and her old coworkers told her that they were told they had to.

Bogarts next to the calendar store is moving where Norther Reflections was and Norther Reflections built a new store next to Scotia Bank.

If they were at a point where they renewed leases, they could have put up the rent and put in a clause that certain types of stores have to adhere to a certain rules like being updated after X amount of years and if they've been sitting there for 20 years looking the same then they'd have to renovate.

jeddy1989 Sep 2, 2014 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 6713689)
I think the plan for Sephora was to create one huge store where Bootlegger, Rikki's, and Alia are. Bootlegger is moving upstairs where the calender club and jewelry store are, Rikki's is moving out of the mall, and Alia, Calender club, and that one jewelry story are all done.

It seems counter-productive for a mall that is absolutely out of space to be removing the number of stores to create larger stores. Especially considering I don't think it's current plan of building stores in the parking lot is working too well.

ohhhhh that could make some sense as to where Sephora is being stuck. interesting.

Arrakis Sep 2, 2014 2:34 PM

I can understand stores being moved around by the Mall administration to make way for new more popular stores as the mall is hard up for good retail space. But I still doubt that stores are forced to renovate just for the sake of renovating. Of course they would likely renovate if they have to move though. I would have to see some kind of written lease agreement to believe that stores have to renovate at the request of the mall admin.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 6713733)
They do have control over it and it's being forced, in the past few months Northern Reflections, Urban Planet, Suzy shier, Bogarts, Scotia Bank, Charm Diamond Centre and a few others have renovated or moved because they have a newly renovated store. My sister used to work at one of them and her old coworkers told her that they were told they had to.

Bogarts next to the calendar store is moving where Norther Reflections was and Norther Reflections built a new store next to Scotia Bank.

If they were at a point where they renewed leases, they could have put up the rent and put in a clause that certain types of stores have to adhere to a certain rules like being updated after X amount of years and if they've been sitting there for 20 years looking the same then they'd have to renovate.


PoscStudent Sep 2, 2014 4:11 PM

I would think the mall would have some say in the appearance of the stores. They own the space these stores are renting and it's not great for other businesses to allow them to get run down.

Even if they didn't technically have the power to tell them to renovate they have means of forcing them too.

jeddy1989 Sep 2, 2014 4:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoscStudent (Post 6713910)
I would think the mall would have some say in the appearance of the stores. They own the space these stores are renting and it's not great for other businesses to allow them to get run down.

Even if they didn't technically have the power to tell them to renovate they have means of forcing them too.

Someone on the inside told me that they have included it in their new lease agreements.

People can put all kinds of stuff in lease agreements and it's actually quite common.

Horsell Sep 2, 2014 4:46 PM

The Avalon Mall is definitely overdue for a few changes. My wish list would be to take the roof off the oldest section (Sears to the Gap) and make it more of an atrium style, let some light in. Wish # 2 would be to get rid of the stone on the Sears façade and bring it into this century. Wish # 3, more indoor parking / parking garage. I know these ideas have been expressed by others but if enough of us say it, it’s a “movement”.

Arrakis Sep 2, 2014 7:59 PM

You are so right. Most of the mall feels like it's underground.
They should build a second floor all the way from Fog City down to Sears.
Build a several story parcade on the oleary ave side.
And get rid of that 1960's dated stone on front of Sears.
Unfortunately, I feel that Avalon Mall has no idea of what a good position they are in. If they did, they would be addressing these issues. Plus we have such crappy weather here, enclosed malls are still are pretty viable here whereas they are dying out in other cities across North America.


QUOTE=Horsell;6713959]The Avalon Mall is definitely overdue for a few changes. My wish list would be to take the roof off the oldest section (Sears to the Gap) and make it more of an atrium style, let some light in. Wish # 2 would be to get rid of the stone on the Sears façade and bring it into this century. Wish # 3, more indoor parking / parking garage. I know these ideas have been expressed by others but if enough of us say it, it’s a “movement”.[/QUOTE]

CaspinK Sep 3, 2014 3:05 PM

Related to all this Avalon Mall talk.

The security office is moving upstairs in part of the area where Glow-In-One mini-golf was. The other part of that space I believe is used a retail storage. The old security office / watch repair spot will become storage for Aldo.

Glamour Secrets (http://www.tradesecrets.ca) is opening up across from the Bell Aliant store in the space that was vacant for years.

Additionally, an independent surveying company was inside the mall doing 3D mapping recently (overnight). This included all the back tunnels and public spaces. I have no idea why (maybe for renovation, maybe for a 3D online map, maybe to put the mall for sale).

Arrakis Sep 3, 2014 7:45 PM

Be interesting to see what a new owner would do with the mall. As long as it's not Plaza which owns the Village. They kinda ruined it by leasing out to non-retail tenants.

On a side note, The Telegram will not be renewing their lease at The Village so that will leave a pretty large space available. The Telegram offices will be moving to Austin Street where Transcontinental printing plant is. They also own that building too. Hopefully the Village don't put more offices there once the Telegram leaves. And they seem to be doing major work on the back of the Village where the back entrance to the former Sears store use to be. According to the plaza.ca website, that space is leased to Home Hardware. Not sure if it's gonna be just warehouse space or a new Home Hardware store.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CaspinK (Post 6715168)
Related to all this Avalon Mall talk.

The security office is moving upstairs in part of the area where Glow-In-One mini-golf was. The other part of that space I believe is used a retail storage. The old security office / watch repair spot will become storage for Aldo.

Glamour Secrets (http://www.tradesecrets.ca) is opening up across from the Bell Aliant store in the space that was vacant for years.

Additionally, an independent surveying company was inside the mall doing 3D mapping recently (overnight). This included all the back tunnels and public spaces. I have no idea why (maybe for renovation, maybe for a 3D online map, maybe to put the mall for sale).


Stryker Sep 5, 2014 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 6714289)
You are so right. Most of the mall feels like it's underground.
They should build a second floor all the way from Fog City down to Sears.
Build a several story parcade on the oleary ave side.
And get rid of that 1960's dated stone on front of Sears.
Unfortunately, I feel that Avalon Mall has no idea of what a good position they are in. If they did, they would be addressing these issues.

to be fair I don't think much of your suggesting would be an improvement.

For one I love the feeling that it's undergroud or in some giant igloo it has a very cozy feeling in winter.

That being said they need drastic upgrades to the HVAC, the place is always too humid regardless of time of year. It makes the place and people stink.



It's a crap mall, but it has the illusion that it's gonna sell useful stuff. High end markets in malls are awful, if its gonna be expensive put it downtown.


Anyway both the Avalon and Village should focus their attention on being private community centers and not directly retail.

Focusing on service based income is where they should direct themselves.

Bring in some descent restaurants, bars, gyms(swimming pools, basketball courts) etc.

The should be competing with downtown, not kelsey and stavanger(barf and barfette).

Arrakis Sep 5, 2014 5:54 PM

Lol. Avalon Mall is not a community centre and was never intended to be one. Bringing in swimming pools and basketball courts are not gonna bring in consumers. We have separate community centres around town for that. The brand new Summit Centre in Mt Pearl, the Mews Centre, and there's a brand new community centre being built to replace the Wedgewood Park centre. I get the impression that you and I have completely different ideas on what a successful shopping mall should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 6718246)
to be fair I don't think much of your suggesting would be an improvement.

For one I love the feeling that it's undergroud or in some giant igloo it has a very cozy feeling in winter.

That being said they need drastic upgrades to the HVAC, the place is always too humid regardless of time of year. It makes the place and people stink.



It's a crap mall, but it has the illusion that it's gonna sell useful stuff. High end markets in malls are awful, if its gonna be expensive put it downtown.


Anyway both the Avalon and Village should focus their attention on being private community centers and not directly retail.

Focusing on service based income is where they should direct themselves.

Bring in some descent restaurants, bars, gyms(swimming pools, basketball courts) etc.

The should be competing with downtown, not kelsey and stavanger(barf and barfette).


Stryker Sep 8, 2014 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 6718412)
Lol. Avalon Mall is not a community centre and was never intended to be one. Bringing in swimming pools and basketball courts are not gonna bring in consumers. We have separate community centres around town for that. The brand new Summit Centre in Mt Pearl, the Mews Centre, and there's a brand new community centre being built to replace the Wedgewood Park centre. I get the impression that you and I have completely different ideas on what a successful shopping mall should be.

Well I was thinking more so the Village for swimming pools.

And again the key word is private based community centers. Think west edmonton mall, where one can rock climb, bowl, watch a movie, and fine dine all in one location.

Considering the most sucessful gym in the city is based on being located at primary hubs of the city, I think it's very much in step in what already is.

The mews center is garbage, for the record, and the one in mount pearl is in mount pearl which is the point.

The village has already failed as a mall and I think it's simply too late to reinvigorate it with more shops.

The Avalon is more conventional,however I don't think it has the right location or building type to go upscale. At the same time it's becoming to expensive for the dollar store model.

Honestly I don't think our ideas of what a mall are that different, however I think we diverge is our ability to picture the avalon being successful.

Arrakis Sep 8, 2014 8:29 PM

Yeah it's cool that the west Edmonton mall has all of those attractions. The thing they have is population. That's what we don't have here to support something like that, is the population. I don't think any of the big retail owners here would even consider that sort of thing here. It's probably too good of an idea. Lol.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 6721155)
Well I was thinking more so the Village for swimming pools.

And again the key word is private based community centers. Think west edmonton mall, where one can rock climb, bowl, watch a movie, and fine dine all in one location.

Considering the most sucessful gym in the city is based on being located at primary hubs of the city, I think it's very much in step in what already is.

The mews center is garbage, for the record, and the one in mount pearl is in mount pearl which is the point.

The village has already failed as a mall and I think it's simply too late to reinvigorate it with more shops.

The Avalon is more conventional,however I don't think it has the right location or building type to go upscale. At the same time it's becoming to expensive for the dollar store model.

Honestly I don't think our ideas of what a mall are that different, however I think we diverge is our ability to picture the avalon being successful.


Stryker Sep 8, 2014 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 6721703)
Yeah it's cool that the west Edmonton mall has all of those attractions. The thing they have is population. That's what we don't have here to support something like that, is the population. I don't think any of the big retail owners here would even consider that sort of thing here. It's probably too good of an idea. Lol.

No offense but this population line I think is over used.

Sure our population is smaller, and in no way am I suggesting transforming either malls into one of the biggest in the world, however the concept is a real possibility.

The cineplex, haircuts, gyms, bus stop, banks, foodcourt-coffee shop-fog city. Is already the primary reason me and my friends goto either location. The shopping options are simply not there at either location.

statbass Sep 9, 2014 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 6721724)
No offense but this population line I think is over used.

Sure our population is smaller, and in no way am I suggesting transforming either malls into one of the biggest in the world, however the concept is a real possibility.

The cineplex, haircuts, gyms, bus stop, banks, foodcourt-coffee shop-fog city. Is already the primary reason me and my friends goto either location. The shopping options are simply not there at either location.

I agree that the status quo approach for both the Avalon and Village malls just doesn't cut it. I also agree that population should not be the biggest limiting factor. In theory, a scaled-down version of West Edmonton Mall could work... and work well. However, I think it boils downs to a dollars and cents debate - There needs to be an investor(s) to finance and incur any risks for undertaking such an enterprise. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be such an investor at this time.

Stryker Sep 9, 2014 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statbass (Post 6722420)
I agree that the status quo approach for both the Avalon and Village malls just doesn't cut it. I also agree that population should not be the biggest limiting factor. In theory, a scaled-down version of West Edmonton Mall could work... and work well. However, I think it boils downs to a dollars and cents debate - There needs to be an investor(s) to finance and incur any risks for undertaking such an enterprise. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be such an investor at this time.

I think it's an attitude of the citizens of the city that real matters.

Unfortunately it seems like everything is dominated by folks that don't actually live in the city proper.

We have a detroit like situation in the making where the central region goes bankrupt supporting the infrastructure that the burbs use.


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