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-   -   [St. John's] Retail Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=198935)

SignalHillHiker Oct 31, 2012 10:25 PM

All jokes aside, I definitely agree with supporting local businesses first. But I also agree with supporting national and international brands that give our city a chance. But, yes, local first.

St. John's does local business on a bigger scale and, in my opinion, better scale than most cities our size. We've got a lengthy list of the top-rated X, Y, and Z in Canada, from restaurants to lingerie shops.

jeddy1989 Oct 31, 2012 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 5886605)
All jokes aside, I definitely agree with supporting local businesses first. But I also agree with supporting national and international brands that give our city a chance. But, yes, local first.

St. John's does local business on a bigger scale and, in my opinion, better scale than most cities our size. We've got a lengthy list of the top-rated X, Y, and Z in Canada, from restaurants to lingerie shops.

I agree it needs to be a mix and I would like to see some more large chains downtown as well

Just bring it all on hahaha

SignalHillHiker Oct 31, 2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 5886592)
What does "foundation of the regional boom" even mean?

There is a lot of irrational exuberance in St. John's lately. It has had some good years, but that doesn't mean that other places have been doing badly. I think Newfoundland and New Brunswick still have about the same GDP. Newfoundland is nowhere near the GDP of all the Maritime provinces combined. Many of the predictions for GDP growth in 2012 actually have Newfoundland below Nova Scotia because of declining production in one of the offshore projects. More generally, a lot of excitement seems to come from GDP figures, but GDP isn't necessarily a great indicator of money in the local economy, particularly when you are talking about a small province dominated by some major energy companies that are likely taking profits somewhere else.

At the end of the day with a retailer like IKEA they look at the number of people who can reasonably be expected to visit a store and how much money those shoppers have to spend. As we can see from the statistics, there are about twice as many shoppers in the Halifax area and the incomes around the same so we can expect there to be about twice as much money. The true gap is larger than that because within about an hour of a store in Halifax there would be more population than there is in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. This is why the Halifax area has a wider diversity of retailers than anywhere else in the region.

I don't think it's irrational at all. Our economy is great and we, as a city, are doing exceptionally well for ourselves - every week the papers have a story or two about ho we're leading Canada in this way or that.

We have one of the most beautiful cities in the country, by far, and the largest and best-preserved old town core and commercial district east of Quebec. We have the largest university east of Quebec City, a world-famous entertainment district, our own distinct culture, dialect, history, traditions, identity...

There seems to be this misconception in Halifax that it is, beyond compare, the best city in every category in Atlantic Canada. Or that it's closer to, say, Toronto than to Moncton. It's not. Pointing that out, even with objective facts, seems to not go over well. And then if you get into the subjective ("I don't think Halifax is a very pretty city"), it gets even worse. There seems to be a Halifax attitude, especially as it relates to St. John's, that's instantly recognizable. I've mentioned before, for example, that I've lived in most provinces between here and Manitoba and Halifax is the only city where people ever said Newfie jokes with obvious cruel intentions; the only place where it was very clear from their tone that they didn't expect me to laugh but were just being mean.

There's lots of OMG we're OBVIOUSLY the BEST in St. John's as well but not to the same degree. My guess is we're not used to being No. 1 so we're less inclined to be unable to accept it.

So, yes, Halifax is a bigger city, it's going to have more exclusive chains. Lots of people from the Maritimes will go there to shop. That's all great for the whole of Atlantic Canada. But it's not as though we're suffering. We've got a great little city. And it's doing very well, punching far above its weight right now. And we're thrilled about it. It's not irrational at all.

jeddy1989 Oct 31, 2012 10:53 PM

Brought from the halifax thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 5886592)
What does "foundation of the regional boom" even mean?

There is a lot of irrational exuberance in St. John's lately. It has had some good years, but that doesn't mean that other places have been doing badly. I think Newfoundland and New Brunswick still have about the same GDP. Newfoundland is nowhere near the GDP of all the Maritime provinces combined. Many of the predictions for GDP growth in 2012 actually have Newfoundland below Nova Scotia because of declining production in one of the offshore projects. More generally, a lot of excitement seems to come from GDP figures, but GDP isn't necessarily a great indicator of money in the local economy, particularly when you are talking about a small province dominated by some major energy companies that are likely taking profits somewhere else.

At the end of the day with a retailer like IKEA they look at the number of people who can reasonably be expected to visit a store and how much money those shoppers have to spend. As we can see from the statistics, there are about twice as many shoppers in the Halifax area and the incomes around the same so we can expect there to be about twice as much money. The true gap is larger than that because within about an hour of a store in Halifax there would be more population than there is in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. This is why the Halifax area has a wider diversity of retailers than anywhere else in the region.

It cannot all be going away, we are the only "have province" in well eastern Canada

Which means we do not have the need for equalization payments and do not receive them


just as some background reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equaliz...ents_in_Canada

SignalHillHiker Oct 31, 2012 10:53 PM

Oh, and thanks for explaining RE: what the population number in that list of unemployment rates meant!

jeddy1989 Oct 31, 2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 5886634)
Oh, and thanks for explaining RE: what the population number in that list of unemployment rates meant!

What are you talking about?

:rolleyes:

SignalHillHiker Oct 31, 2012 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 5886641)
What are you talking about?

:rolleyes:

The population of St. John's on that link to the unemployment rates.

Someone123 said it's 162,000 because they count the Metro population but ONLY those 15 years of age and up. I couldn't figure out where 162,000 was coming from because the city is 106 and the Metro is 198.

jeddy1989 Oct 31, 2012 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 5886643)
The population of St. John's on that link to the unemployment rates.

Someone123 said it's 162,000 because they count the Metro population but ONLY those 15 years of age and up. I couldn't figure out where 162,000 was coming from because the city is 106 and the Metro is 198.

right got ya

SignalHillHiker Oct 31, 2012 11:13 PM

One other thing... living on the mainland definitely changed my perspective about these sorts of things. Since moving back, the regional prejudices in Atlantic Canada seem hilarious.

The only one that gets to me more than the idea that St. John's has a inferiority complex regarding Halifax is that Townies/Baymen are deeply different. They're both horribly inaccurate and seem petty once you're far enough removed from them to see the bigger picture.

Arrakis Nov 4, 2012 8:02 PM

The "Walmart" sign is now up on the new location at Hamlyn Road. An large "opening soon" banner is also posted up outside on the building. Guess they will be open just in time for the Christmas rush.

jeddy1989 Nov 4, 2012 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 5890390)
The "Walmart" sign is now up on the new location at Hamlyn Road. An large "opening soon" banner is also posted up outside on the building. Guess they will be open just in time for the Christmas rush.

Noticed this today as well

Arrakis Nov 5, 2012 2:46 AM

Yeah, it's nice to see them back in central St. John's. I live nearby there and hate having to go all the way in Mount Pearl or the east end if I wanna shop at Walmart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 5890396)
Noticed this today as well


jeddy1989 Nov 5, 2012 5:03 PM

In the Avalon mall the new Envy store is open, it's much bigger than the old one, also foot locker is going through major renovations.

I noticed that tehre are a lot of kiosks around now! much more than ever before and downstairs in the "marketplace" it looks very nice now and filled with kiosks.

The place everyone thought jump plus was going, across from body works upstairs .. has a for lease sign on it :S and the door was open so I could see in and there isn't anything there to prepare for a store .. I wonder what's going on with them? :shrug:

Arrakis I'm moving into the area soon too so a walmart close by will be nice :)

I was in the Village the other day and I realized how much more I like the layout than the Avalon .. It's very open and very very high ceilings.
too bad the avalon wasn't that layout, it would seem huge, It would have to be at least 4 floors to fit in what currently exists in the Avalon or like 3 floors with 2 more wings lol

statbass Nov 5, 2012 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 5891198)
The place everyone thought jump plus was going, across from body works upstairs .. has a for lease sign on it :S and the door was open so I could see in and there isn't anything there to prepare for a store .. I wonder what's going on with them? :shrug:

:previous: I'd say that space will be leased in no time, the Avalon Mall still seems to be a premier place to shop in the city (and province for that matter).

I was wondering about Jump Plus location at the Avalon mall so I did some searching around. On their website it states they will going into unit 0265. From the Mall's floor plan unit 0265 is the current location of Showcase. I believe Showcase is still there, so unless it's closing soon this may be a mistake on Jump Plus website.

I've attached the floor plan to the Avalon Mall:

http://www.crombiereit.ca/en/lease_f...an.aspx?PID=54

PoscStudent Nov 5, 2012 5:23 PM

I wasn't sure if New Envy was Envy or not.

SignalHillHiker Nov 5, 2012 5:24 PM

I really need to elevate my shopping habits, it seems. I recognize none of these names. I only ever go to the Avalon for AE, Empire 12, Fog City, Winners, and window-shopping. lol

Arrakis Nov 5, 2012 5:28 PM

Both malls have pros and cons. I use to like the Village when it had Sears and Walmart. You could walk through the mall for sometime before having to backtrack over areas you have already been. You can't really do that any more so I get bored there and rarely ever shop there anymore. Plus, no record store, no electronics store. The Coles book store there is pretty dreary. Too bad book sales are are in decline. A nice Indigo store at the Village would be nice. Turn Labels into an Old Navy if you want to draw people in. I have only seen about 5 customers at the most in Labels at any given time. Can't imagine how much they are paying per square foot for that huge space they occupy and no customers.

The Avalon Mall should have carried the two-floor scheme all the way down to Sears and open up the ceiling much like Eaton Centre. Most of the mall reminds me of the Toronto path/subway concourse. Low ceilings and not much light getting in. Avalon Mall is a hodge-podge of architectural styles too going off in every direction. But at least you can walk around without having to backtrack over areas you have already been and got a nice variety of stores. Though I would say Sears days are numbered in Canada once Target opens and takes hold. I predict that Sears will be the next big chain to close up shop in Canada over the next several years. I doubt it will be able to compete with Target unless it changes its strategy big time but it is almost too late for that now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 5891198)
In the Avalon mall the new Envy store is open, it's much bigger than the old one, also foot locker is going through major renovations.

I noticed that tehre are a lot of kiosks around now! much more than ever before and downstairs in the "marketplace" it looks very nice now and filled with kiosks.

The place everyone thought jump plus was going, across from body works upstairs .. has a for lease sign on it :S and the door was open so I could see in and there isn't anything there to prepare for a store .. I wonder what's going on with them? :shrug:

Arrakis I'm moving into the area soon too so a walmart close by will be nice :)

I was in the Village the other day and I realized how much more I like the layout than the Avalon .. It's very open and very very high ceilings.
too bad the avalon wasn't that layout, it would seem huge, It would have to be at least 4 floors to fit in what currently exists in the Avalon or like 3 floors with 2 more wings lol


SignalHillHiker Nov 5, 2012 5:31 PM

Luckily, I couldn't possibly care less about Canadian brands like Sears. I still support Bowring over Stokes, of course, even though the Bowring family has been removed from the chain for some time...

But Sears, etc. Good riddance. Target I welcome. I'm sick of paying extra for Canadian smugness. Same with Air Canada. Let'em f***ing go bankrupt. I'd much rather support companies that don't make us feel like we should be honoured to buy from them.

jeddy1989 Nov 5, 2012 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 5891226)
Both malls have pros and cons. I use to like the Village when it had Sears and Walmart. You could walk through the mall for sometime before having to backtrack over areas you have already been. You can't really do that any more so I get bored there and rarely ever shop there anymore. Plus, no record store, no electronics store. The Coles book store there is pretty dreary. Too bad book sales are are in decline. A nice Indigo store at the Village would be nice. Turn Labels into an Old Navy if you want to draw people in. I have only seen about 5 customers at the most in Labels at any given time. Can't imagine how much they are paying per square foot for that huge space they occupy and no customers.

The Avalon Mall should have carried the two-floor scheme all the way down to Sears and open up the ceiling much like Eaton Centre. Most of the mall reminds me of the Toronto path/subway concourse. Low ceilings and not much light getting in. Avalon Mall is a hodge-podge of architectural styles too going off in every direction. But at least you can walk around without having to backtrack over areas you have already been and got a nice variety of stores. Though I would say Sears days are numbered in Canada once Target opens and takes hold. I predict that Sears will be the next big chain to close up shop in Canada over the next several years. I doubt it will be able to compete with Target unless it changes its strategy big time but it is almost too late for that now.

I was actually surprised about how many people were in the Village, MUCH more than there use to be, on a normal day it's like what old normal days in the avalon or (xmas at the village) haha still doesnt mean its bumping but it doesn't feel like they are closed at like 5 hahaha

Arrakis Nov 5, 2012 6:09 PM

The Village is getting a little better though since they lost their major anchor tenants like Sears and Walmart. Bed, Bath and Beyond is a nice addition. But they still need to get better large tenants rather than the likes of Rossey or Labels or the stupid call centre which does not belong in a shopping mall. Nor does the Telegram offices. I know the mall owners just see dollar signs when they can rent out spaces but you have to realize what the building is made for. It's not an office building. It's a shopping centre. They should have divided up the old Walmart space into many other smaller spaces for others stores to give the mall a better pedestrian flow and not rent out all of the floor space to non retail businesses. Bring back the fountain too. LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989 (Post 5891246)
I was actually surprised about how many people were in the Village, MUCH more than there use to be, on a normal day it's like what old normal days in the avalon or (xmas at the village) haha still doesnt mean its bumping but it doesn't feel like they are closed at like 5 hahaha



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